Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

[fogdark]

It was very well done, and as sad as I am to see Goku lose, I do agree with the outcome.

In the manga, Goku steadily increases his power over time, while Superman is powerful almost from the get go. Superman is created to be basically a god, able to do feats that are just too unbelievable. In this kind of match, Goku was the underdog, but in a way he had never been before.

Are there scenarios where Goku could win? Well sure, several of you guys pointed out many ways in which Goku would have won. But the guys at Death Match looked, not only at their power and abilities, but also at their personalities and traits. And for all accounts, the Goku I saw in the fight was the Goku I know. From wanting a fair fight, even to the point of destroying the only weakness of his enemy, to using the KameHameHa to throw Supes in the Sun, and then realizing too late how the star affects Superman, this was Goku, no question about it.

As for the Man of Steel, I learned stuff about him I never knew. Simply put, the guy is off the charts. As soon as they finished presenting Superman before the fight, I knew he was going to win. That punch alone was hax to the max. No wonder people say Superman is too damn powerful to make him a relatable character. Although Supes is still my favorite comic character ....not that I read much comics haha.

At the end of the day, Toriyama put limits to Goku, to show effort, perseverance and a hard fought win, the basics of a shonen hero. While the different writers for Superman just give him the strength the story needs him to have. They need to move a planet to make the story spectacular? well, lets have Big Blue dip in the sun for a bit, and then we can say he's able to do it, because why the hell not? So yeah, who wins the fight between one who time and time again goes beyond his limits, to one who simply doesn't have one at all? We just got the answer.

Superman won, in an awesome fight, and I believed it.


But you know, this made me think of something. Battle of Gods. Yep, the movie, in which Goku seems to be out-classed by a god of destruction. This new enemy could very well be the closest thing to Superman there has existed in Dragon Ball, so let's see how Goku deals with him, and then come back here with that new piece of info, shall we?

[Kaboom]

Now the next discussion....
Vegetto/SSJ4 Gogeta vs Superman.
More years of suffering wondering who is better! Okay maybe not.

If Goku alone already gave Supes this much trouble, then introducing Fusion would just make it unfair. Especially since Vegetto (less so Gogeta with SSj3 canceling out Fusion and stuff) can do everything Goku AND Vegeta can, but better.

But you know, this made me think of something. Battle of Gods. Yep, the movie, in which Goku seems to be out classed by a god of destruction. This new enemy could very well be the closest thing to Superman there has existed in Dragon Ball, so let's see how Goku deals with him, and then come back here with that new piece of info, shall we?

Now that you've mentioned it... I feel the same way. Somehow, seeing this has me even more hyped for Battle of Gods, where Goku looks like he's up against an enemy equally over-powered compared to him.

[dario03]

Personally I think Superman could beat Vegetto. But I would be surprised if they ever used Vegetto. Mostly because the video would just be them talking about Goku and Vegeta and then going "yeah times that by that or at least by a lot".

Goku fought both Eis and Nova and said the heat Nova gives off won't affect him and he has broken out and resisted being frozen on a few occasions. I still say this battle could go either way.

Also apparently they won't do the battle royal idea because they said it would just come down to Goku, Superman, and Spawn.

The showings of heat and cold resistence was one of the biggest benefits Goku got from GT for this video. Without that it could be argued that Superman's heat vision and ice breath could of ended this quickly.

And for the battle royale, I would think Thor would be up there and hes been in one of their videos already.

Dub music and voice acting. Ugh.

Just focus on MasakoX and RandomGuy's performances and it'll all be better.

So yeah, the outcome was more or less what I expected. Like they said in the video, Goku is all about hitting and surpassing his own limits in a cycle of constant growth, while all incarnations of Superman are created, by default, to HAVE no limits in the first place.

In short, Goku can't beat Superman because Superman is "haxed."

I still say without the sun dip Goku would have taken it. He fought and wore down Superman to the point where he would have won, then he blew it by firing him into the sun which is usually what he resorts to. Sun dipping gives Supes a huge boost.

They should of put another TFS refrence when Superman got blasted to the Sun.

Sun...you grow my food, you kill my enemies, you're totalling worth the..WAIT! Sun! what are you doing!?!

And like its been said the video is just for fun the real winner is decided by the numbers. And they seem to go with what I was saying which is that the only physical thing Goku could possibly come close in is speed and his ki isn't strong enough to kill Superman. The strength and durability of Superman is just on another level so really the first unrestrained punch from Superman would end Goku.

[dbzfan7]

I think Ryu vs Scorpion is next since they did a poll and scorpion was ahead in votes from sub zero.

Though why did they ignore Goku being stronger in Gt? In base or SSJ he was already at SSJ3 level. Instead they stuck with the 40 tons from before. Should have started at 16000 since Gt was included. If SSJ Goku GT=SSJ3 Goku Z then base would be 320 tons which would lead to either 64 million tons (if base Goku GT=SSJ3 Z) or 1.28 million tons (if SSJ Goku GT= SSJ3 Goku Z) . Wouldn't change that much but still.

Anyways looking over the fight again I wonder how much Supes got drained through out. If SSJ3 didnt seem to work and supes easily beat it. Then how come fighting SSJ4 tired him out. Also in comics Supes can last a long time without the sun so he wouldn't be draining at a large rate but a minor rate. So did SSJ4 tire him out or was he already tired even though he was above SSJ3.

[jjgp1112]

SPOILER


Honestly, I agree with their result. While us Dragon Ball fanboys may not like it, Superman is INSANELY overpowered. He would've won out.

[dario03]

I think Ryu vs Scorpion is next since they did a poll and scorpion was ahead in votes from sub zero.

Though why did they ignore Goku being stronger in Gt? In base or SSJ he was already at SSJ3 level. Instead they stuck with the 40 tons from before. Should have started at 16000 since Gt was included. If SSJ Goku GT=SSJ3 Goku Z then base would be 320 tons which would lead to either 64 million tons (if base Goku GT=SSJ3 Z) or 1.28 million tons (if SSJ Goku GT= SSJ3 Goku Z) . Wouldn't change that much but still.

Anyways looking over the fight again I wonder how much Supes got drained through out. If SSJ3 didnt seem to work and supes easily beat it. Then how come fighting SSJ4 tired him out. Also in comics Supes can last a long time without the sun so he wouldn't be draining at a large rate but a minor rate. So did SSJ4 tire him out or was he already tired even though he was above SSJ3.

Another death battle type group on Youtube just did Ryu vs Scorpion a few months ago. But they just post 2 different endings for the video and let you pick the winner.

Again the video is just for show but SS4 being 10x SS3 would explain that. If Superman was just under 10x SS3 then he could easily beat SS3 but get tired fighting SS4. Though Superman usually has a ton of stamina and stores solar power for a good amount of time so SS4 would probably need to be a good bit stronger.

[destro4thewin]

So Goku saw that Supes was getting hit more when the clouds cover the sun and still didnt get that the sun gave him power.Or he saw him going like crazy near the sun and still didn't get it.OK I won't say anything about the outcome Supes would have won even if the people that made the video weren't db haters.You know why?Cause superman's comic makes less sense than GT.When it comes to the comic GT is a masterpiece.But I hate how these people don't know anything about Goku.Goku's most basic trait is his skills to analyse his opponents and choose the correct moves to use.NO GOKU DOESN'T JUST RANDOMLY CHARGE AGAINST AN OPPONENT.Thats the stuff we make fun of Superman "he charges all the time and tries to connect with a punch"They could make the battle even better and have someone who have actually watched how Goku fights talk.Again I dont say that the outcome would change, I just explain how Superman could at least have a hard time.This guy didn't even sweat.And Goku or better this Goku was stupid enough to understand Supes power source and just let him power up.It is called mind!!!Goku isnt braindead!!Aside from these points I don't have to say anything else.Goku could use instant transmission in battle which he didn't...He could return from the dead with instant transmission and continue which again he didn't.He could use dragonfist while absorbing the spirit bomb as a SSJ4!!not in ssj1...But budokai 2-3 aren't cannon right?Ohhhhh they used everything that existed as source material....

[dbzfan7]

I think Ryu vs Scorpion is next since they did a poll and scorpion was ahead in votes from sub zero.

Though why did they ignore Goku being stronger in Gt? In base or SSJ he was already at SSJ3 level. Instead they stuck with the 40 tons from before. Should have started at 16000 since Gt was included. If SSJ Goku GT=SSJ3 Goku Z then base would be 320 tons which would lead to either 64 million tons (if base Goku GT=SSJ3 Z) or 1.28 million tons (if SSJ Goku GT= SSJ3 Goku Z) . Wouldn't change that much but still.

Anyways looking over the fight again I wonder how much Supes got drained through out. If SSJ3 didnt seem to work and supes easily beat it. Then how come fighting SSJ4 tired him out. Also in comics Supes can last a long time without the sun so he wouldn't be draining at a large rate but a minor rate. So did SSJ4 tire him out or was he already tired even though he was above SSJ3.

Another death battle type group on Youtube just did Ryu vs Scorpion a few months ago. But they just post 2 different endings for the video and let you pick the winner.

Again the video is just for show but SS4 being 10x SS3 would explain that. If Superman was just under 10x SS3 then he could easily beat SS3 but get tired fighting SS4. Though Superman usually has a ton of stamina and stores solar power for a good amount of time so SS4 would probably need to be a good bit stronger.

That's why I had Sun Dip Supes>SSJ4>Supes>Goku. Even if the video is for show they did show supes getting tired which does mean something. With Supes decimating SSJ3 Goku I would think SSJ4 being able to wear out Supes would make Goku at least somewhat more powerful. Wouldn't change the fact Supes could get to the Sun and then overpower Goku.

[lash]

Despite all the hype, Not a very good battle I must say. I don't see what was improved in that extra 20+ days they were given.

-I was having a field day...literally laughing my ass while watching how they conjured their whole calculation section at the end. Using some alternate version superman feats, and having Goku clocked at 2.3x light speed. I mean I already had low expectations going to watch it(derived from watching their other videos), but I congratulate them...they actually managed to end up being lower than it.

-I could write up a college essay on how ridiculously flawed most of their calculations were in both character's case. And it pains my heart too, because I thought they came requesting for some info from the guys on this site.
-Music wasn't pleasant and a little unfitting on several parts. Dragonball Z budokai? Dub music? You gotta be kidding me. But that's just my opinion.
-Voice lines were dreadful at times. Are they purposefully trying to be cheesy?
-Some animation were too static. Such as Superman's constant standing-still-'cape flying' repetitive stance. Dude hovers and has his cape flying fluidly behind him everywhere.
-Ending justification didn't really sit well. Goku has limits, but as we all know always finds a way to overcome them when he needs/works at it to do so. That's what Toriyama showed all throughout the series. Rinse and refresh. That essentially makes him just like Superman...being as strong as he needs to be or otherwise 'limitless', as has been said about Goku dozens of times in the series/supplemental material anyway.
-They showed Superman 64 for a moment. Might have to purchase some Ambien.


With all that negativity said, I guess I'll end on a positive note. I'll say the graphics were quite nice.
Overall grade? I'll say
6/10

[samuraix123]

I just got through watching it and i must say that i enjoyed the outcome even if my poor Goku lost there was so much thought that wen't into this video! I thought for a second they was going to make it a tie and i would have been disappointed. but they didn't. definitely a good show.

[VegettoEX]

C'mon, folks. Proper typing. Lots of outside communities looking in. Present yourself well like you agreed to.

Spaces, punctuation, capitalization, nice demeanor. All that jazz.

[hulkty]

I can't watch videos until my connection restarts on the 20th, but I'm hearing that Superman beat a Goku that can go SSj4. I thought they were just using "All-Star" though. Goku shouldn't even need SSj3. What the hell happened? I'm not even biased, I know almost everything about most versions of Superman. Is it true Goku literally pushed Superman into the Sun? If so, ..........f*ck.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I haven't been really joining in on the discussion here until now, since I know jack squat about Superman, and I'm really not that big a fan of him - but after finally watching the preview video for this on Youtube, I can say I'm excited to see the full video and see how it all ends for myself. I've just got to wait for it to go onto Youtube though, since I can't get ScrewAttack to load right for me for some reason.

Despite my distaste for Superman, I'm fine with him winning, and really saw it coming. Like someone already said, Superman in-of-himself is pretty much 'ultimate' in every way, sadly - which is the primary reason I'm not fond of him.

[jjgp1112]

Vegetto or SSJ4 Gogeta vs. Superman would be a much more contentious debate. Vegetto is basically God in Dragon Ball, and ALL we saw of him was a measly SSJ1. However, there's just so much about Vegetto that's unknown that it'd be kinda difficult to do.

[SaiyanZ]

I've read all of Dragon Ball and a lot of Superman. I still stand by my opinion that it would be a dead-on tie. Though I'm glad that Death Battle showed Supes was basically stronger, faster and more durable than Goku by A LOT. Though I discourage the use of "calculations" in Vs matches, it was a very well-researched and very well done video

[jjgp1112]

Despite all the hype, Not a very good battle I must say. I don't see what was improved in that extra 20+ days they were given.

-I was having a field day...literally laughing my ass while watching how they conjured their whole calculation section at the end. Using some alternate version superman feats, and having Goku clocked at 2.3x light speed. I mean I already had low expectations going to watch it(derived from watching their other videos), but I congratulate them...they actually managed to end up being lower than it.

-I could write up a college essay on how ridiculously flawed most of their calculations were in both character's case. And it pains my heart too, because I thought they came requesting for some info from the guys on this site.
-Music wasn't pleasant and a little unfitting on several parts. Dragonball Z budokai? Dub music? You gotta be kidding me. But that's just my opinion.
-Voice lines were dreadful at times. Are they purposefully trying to be cheesy?
-Some animation were too static. Such as Superman's constant standing-still-'cape flying' repetitive stance. Dude hovers and has his cape flying fluidly behind him everywhere.
-Ending justification didn't really sit well. Goku has limits, but as we all know always finds a way to overcome them when he needs/works at it to do so. That's what Toriyama showed all throughout the series. Rinse and refresh. That essentially makes him just like Superman...being as strong as he needs to be or otherwise 'limitless', as has been said about Goku dozens of times in the series/supplemental material anyway.
-They showed Superman 64 for a moment. Might have to purchase some Ambien.


With all that negativity said, I guess I'll end on a positive note. I'll say the graphics were quite nice.
Overall grade? I'll say
6/10

What *is* wrong with their calculations exactly? I think people seem to fail to understand the degree to which Superman is "haxxed." Goku can't just make some big breakthrough in the middle of the fight unless something crazy happened, and even the ending implies that Goku could've won if he didn't make such a grave miscalculation and allowed him to utilize the sun. Like they said, Superman is basically limitless, while we have plenty of reasonable sources to use to make a more concrete summation of Goku's power. End of GT Goku vs. Superman is an interesting debate, but we know next to nothing about him.

[dario03]

So Goku saw that Supes was getting hit more when the clouds cover the sun and still didnt get that the sun gave him power.Or he saw him going like crazy near the sun and still didn't get it.OK I won't say anything about the outcome Supes would have won even if the people that made the video weren't db haters.You know why?Cause superman's comic makes less sense than GT.When it comes to the comic GT is a masterpiece.But I hate how these people don't know anything about Goku.Goku's most basic trait is his skills to analyse his opponents and choose the correct moves to use.NO GOKU DOESN'T JUST RANDOMLY CHARGE AGAINST AN OPPONENT.Thats the stuff we make fun of Superman "he charges all the time and tries to connect with a punch"They could make the battle even better and have someone who have actually watched how Goku fights talk.Again I dont say that the outcome would change, I just explain how Superman could at least have a hard time.This guy didn't even sweat.And Goku or better this Goku was stupid enough to understand Supes power source and just let him power up.It is called mind!!!Goku isnt braindead!!Aside from these points I don't have to say anything else.Goku could use instant transmission in battle which he didn't...He could return from the dead with instant transmission and continue which again he didn't.He could use dragonfist while absorbing the spirit bomb as a SSJ4!!not in ssj1...But budokai 2-3 aren't cannon right?Ohhhhh they used everything that existed as source material....

-The cloud cover happened right around the time that Goku went SS4 so thats probably why he thought he was getting in more hits. Which should be why anyways since instant cloud cover shouldn't really affect Superman that quickly. And fyling away from your opponent is a normal thing to do when your losing. Plus Goku did figure that out once Superman was at the Sun.
-Goku actually did use IT at least once.
-The fight is to the death so thats why he didn't come back, plus he doesn't normally do that anyways since its against some rule. Besides he would just die again.
-Goku did use the Dragon Fist in SS4 right after absorbing the Spirit Bomb.

That's why I had Sun Dip Supes>SSJ4>Supes>Goku. Even if the video is for show they did show supes getting tired which does mean something. With Supes decimating SSJ3 Goku I would think SSJ4 being able to wear out Supes would make Goku at least somewhat more powerful. Wouldn't change the fact Supes could get to the Sun and then overpower Goku.

Actually I would say Superman looking tired in the video doesn't have to mean anything. Going by their numbers Supes should win easily and their numbers are normal non-sun dipped Superman.

[fogdark]

First of all, Goku did wonder why Superman was so powerful, tried to read his mind to seek the answer, and Superman proceeded to block him from doing so. So Goku had no idea why Superman was so powerful.

True, when the clouds covered the Sun, and then when Supeman flew to space, those instances could be considered as clues, but then again, consider this. Goku was beating the crap out of Supes in his SSJ4 state, so he could have very well thought the Man of Steel was simply reaching his limits, and then thought Superman was flying away trying to escape, not to recharge. Simply put, as good a fighter Goku is, and even though he IS a mind-reader, this time, he couldn't possibly know how the Sun affected Superman. So, he did an attack he's done a few times before, throwing his enemies into the Sun, and then realize too late his mistake.

Again, I do think there are several scenarios in which Goku could have won, keep in mind there's always an if, and never an absolute answer on this kind of fights. But the way this match was presented, Superman won, without any doubt in my mind.

[dbzfan7]

So Goku saw that Supes was getting hit more when the clouds cover the sun and still didnt get that the sun gave him power.Or he saw him going like crazy near the sun and still didn't get it.OK I won't say anything about the outcome Supes would have won even if the people that made the video weren't db haters.You know why?Cause superman's comic makes less sense than GT.When it comes to the comic GT is a masterpiece.But I hate how these people don't know anything about Goku.Goku's most basic trait is his skills to analyse his opponents and choose the correct moves to use.NO GOKU DOESN'T JUST RANDOMLY CHARGE AGAINST AN OPPONENT.Thats the stuff we make fun of Superman "he charges all the time and tries to connect with a punch"They could make the battle even better and have someone who have actually watched how Goku fights talk.Again I dont say that the outcome would change, I just explain how Superman could at least have a hard time.This guy didn't even sweat.And Goku or better this Goku was stupid enough to understand Supes power source and just let him power up.It is called mind!!!Goku isnt braindead!!Aside from these points I don't have to say anything else.Goku could use instant transmission in battle which he didn't...He could return from the dead with instant transmission and continue which again he didn't.He could use dragonfist while absorbing the spirit bomb as a SSJ4!!not in ssj1...But budokai 2-3 aren't cannon right?Ohhhhh they used everything that existed as source material....

-The cloud cover happened right around the time that Goku went SS4 so thats probably why he thought he was getting in more hits. Which should be why anyways since instant cloud cover shouldn't really affect Superman that quickly. And fyling away from your opponent is a normal thing to do when your losing. Plus Goku did figure that out once Superman was at the Sun.
-Goku actually did use IT at least once.
-The fight is to the death so thats why he didn't come back, plus he doesn't normally do that anyways since its against some rule. Besides he would just die again.
-Goku did use the Dragon Fist in SS4 right after absorbing the Spirit Bomb.

That's why I had Sun Dip Supes>SSJ4>Supes>Goku. Even if the video is for show they did show supes getting tired which does mean something. With Supes decimating SSJ3 Goku I would think SSJ4 being able to wear out Supes would make Goku at least somewhat more powerful. Wouldn't change the fact Supes could get to the Sun and then overpower Goku.

Actually I would say Superman looking tired in the video doesn't have to mean anything. Going by their numbers Supes should win easily and their numbers are normal non-sun dipped Superman.

In their fight Goku had the advantage in SSJ4 somehow. Then Supes got tired after their fight even though he logically shouldn't have been considering he easily beat SSJ3 Goku. That means he either he wore him down earlier or during their fight. I say it does matter Supes got tired since why show Supes getting tired and going to the Sun if statistically he didn't need to.

[dario03]

That's why I had Sun Dip Supes>SSJ4>Supes>Goku. Even if the video is for show they did show supes getting tired which does mean something. With Supes decimating SSJ3 Goku I would think SSJ4 being able to wear out Supes would make Goku at least somewhat more powerful. Wouldn't change the fact Supes could get to the Sun and then overpower Goku.

Actually I would say Superman looking tired in the video doesn't have to mean anything. Going by their numbers Supes should win easily and their numbers are normal non-sun dipped Superman.

In their fight Goku had the advantage in SSJ4 somehow. Then Supes got tired after their fight even though he logically shouldn't have been considering he easily beat SSJ3 Goku. That means he either he wore him down earlier or during their fight. I say it does matter Supes got tired since why show Supes getting tired and going to the Sun if statistically he didn't need to.

Same reason they had Superman fly through the Super Spirit Bomb Kamehameha instead of just going around it. Dramatic effect. And it is kind of a character trait that Superman can look like hes having trouble and then just brush it all off and win.

But really the video is like that because the video would be really boring and short if Superman just killed Goku with the first hit. And they probably didn't want to upset fans by making it a joke kind of fight like they did with Shadow vs Vegeta.