Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

[TheMightyOzaru]

I enjoyed the fight and I agree with the result but I do call bull shit on a few calcs. The one about Goku's durability being based on the fact that the ground didn't cave in during the struggle between Goku and Vegeta was complete bull. This is a gag manga made by an Japanese man who doesn't know really anything about physics. Luckily Goku dying means nothing since dragon balls .

[Bussani]

What's so special about this? It's just a Kamehameha. Just because it destroys the 'dimension' somehow it doesn't mean he can do that in the real dimension.

Kind of like Superboy Prime "punching reality" from that dimension he was in once.



Superboy Prime isn't Superman, mind you, but it's a similar circumstance.

Something I was just thinking about. It's HUGELY out of character for Superman to destroy the Earth. Why didn't this factor into it more? It would've made more sense for Superman & Goku to go fight somewhere else.

Yeah, that would have been a nice touch. Death Battle removes a few inhibitions for the purpose of making the fight even possible, though, and they probably wanted to blow up the Earth just because it's impressive and crazy and cool. Still, I'm not sure where else they could go. The Kaioshin realm?

[TheMightyOzaru]

I wonder why ScrewAttack didn't include this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peQZoTuL ... bw&index=1

I could see Post-Crisis Supes losing to an attack like that.

What's so special about this? It's just a Kamehameha. Just because it destroys the 'dimension' somehow it doesn't mean he can do that in the real dimension.

A dimension is usually the equivilent to a universe or multiverse in size, however Goku didn't destroy it he just punctured a whole in that dimensions reality. Impressive yes but this isn't something solar powered Post Crisis Supes can't handle. Minded I do think that a Genki Dama powered SSJ4 Ryuken would have at least phased solar powered Supes, the result would still be the same. Man I wish Toriyama made Goku a little more powerful. A tie would have been much more satisfying.

[SaiyanZ]

My physics professors have always maintained that dimensions > our universe. And based off what I've read, I see no reason to believe otherwise. I think that that particular Kamehameha COULD not WOULD beat Superman. I can't see Superman's (especially Post-Crisis's) durability being an entire dimension+.

I enjoyed the fight and I agree with the result but I do call bull shit on a few calcs. The one about Goku's durability being based on the fact that the ground didn't cave in during the struggle between Goku and Vegeta was complete bull. This is a gag manga made by an Japanese man who doesn't know really anything about physics. Luckily Goku dying means nothing since dragon balls .

I don't think calculations like that belong in either DBZ or the DCverse. When you can revive the dead and fly, modern physics shouldn't apply anymore

[Bussani]

My physics professors have always maintained that dimensions > our universe.

I have to wonder what that even means, since I'm sure a physics professor wouldn't use the word "dimension" the way it's getting used in this thread (i.e. the Saturday morning cartoon definition). A dimension is an axis of movement, technically. But ignoring that, could you elaborate on what you mean about "dimensions" somehow being greater than "our universe"?

[Hellspawn28]

Dimensions can come in different shapes and sizes. Most dimensions usually smaller than a universe.

[SSj_Rambo]

Great video and great analysis. Enjoyed it all very thoroughly and it is a great amount of very well-deserved publicity for Kanzenshuu. I was able to learn a lot from the angles and calculations they went into. They took a lot of approaches that really have never been taken before even by Dragonball fans (the calculations to calculate the straight-line distance of Snake Way, for one). Would have liked to see more of SSj3 Goku in the video, but it was great overall and I love how they combined the abilities we've all always wondered about (Kaio-ken in Super Saiya-jin form). On a side note I also really love the header they have for their research page. Great original image of SSj3 Goku and of Superman, and gotta love seeing the Kanzenshuu logo up there among some top notch sites of other fandoms.

Major applause for all who were involved and contributed! Truly epic!

[SaiyanZ]

My physics professors have always maintained that dimensions > our universe.

I have to wonder what that even means, since I'm sure a physics professor wouldn't use the word "dimension" the way it's getting used in this thread (i.e. the Saturday morning cartoon definition). A dimension is an axis of movement, technically. But ignoring that, could you elaborate on what you mean about "dimensions" somehow being greater than "our universe"?

More specifically, a 2d and 3d plane, coupled in with various space-time continuums. Just think matter, antimatter and dark matter all comprised into every single iota of space within a specified region

[SaiyanZ]

Dimensions can come in different shapes and sizes. Most dimensions usually smaller than a universe.

And you are correct, but I was aiming for the more abstract "all-encompassing" spacetime dimension if you will XD

[Bussani]

Sorry, but I still don't understand what you're trying to tell us.

[SaiyanZ]

Sorry, but I still don't understand what you're trying to tell us.

Forget it, I'm not very good at trying to understand it. You'd probably know more about it then I do anyway

[Hellspawn28]

So much butthurt on Youtube that it's not even funny . After posing on DB forums for 10+ years, it seem like DB fans only know Superman from the cartoons and the movies. I don't think most DBZ fans in debates even read comics at all.

[SaiyanZ]

So much butthurt on Youtube that it's not even funny . After posing on DB forums for 10+ years, it seem like DB fans only know Superman from the cartoons and the movies. I don't think most DBZ fans in debates even read comics at all.

Which is precisely the problem. I had a field day with this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAf8CA9ARzk

[Bussani]

Forget it, even I'm not very good at trying to understand it. You'd probably know more about it then I do

Eh, I can't say, and I can't blame you for having trouble explaining it.

So much butthurt on Youtube that it's not even funny . After posing on DB forums for 10+ years, it seem like DB fans only know Superman from the cartoons and the movies. I don't think most DBZ fans in debates even read comics at all.

The thing is, it seems like most Dragon Ball fans don't even know Dragon Ball that well. Even with this video pointing out some of the dubs mistranslations and explaining how teleporting does and doesn't work, the first comments from people still seem to be that Goku would win by using teleporting in a way that he can't use it.

[InfernalVegito]

I can't understand how people can rage over something like this.

[TonyTheTiger]

So much butthurt on Youtube that it's not even funny . After posing on DB forums for 10+ years, it seem like DB fans only know Superman from the cartoons and the movies. I don't think most DBZ fans in debates even read comics at all.

The thing is, it seems like most Dragon Ball fans don't even know Dragon Ball that well. Even with this video pointing out some of the dubs mistranslations and explaining how teleporting does and doesn't work, the first comments from people still seem to be that Goku would win by using teleporting in a way that he can't use it.

Unfortunately, that seems to be my overall impression of Goku vs. Superman arguments. If I were to give my idea of a "stereotypical" argument I'd imagine a Superman fan saying Superman would win, a Goku fan saying Goku would win, the Superman fan posting a scan of a comic to support his argument, and the Goku fan essentially making things up such as "Goku can blow up a galaxy." I always felt this was mostly an argument between giant provable numbers and much lower provable numbers with a heavy helping of ass pull to compensate.

Ben and Chad came up with what I think are amazingly clever solutions to draw out as many real numbers as they could from Dragon Ball, such as how they measured a straight line over Snake Way using Goku's height in comparison to a single spike and how they used Gero's bomb to establish Goku's durability. I never would have thought of either but they work surprisingly well.

As a giant fan of both characters and franchises, I found this Death Battle incredibly therapeutic. As much as the debate will never "end" I can at least be satisfied knowing that there's a 30 minute repository of information and analysis that extends far beyond any one single person's ability or knowledge. I find attempts to argue with this Death Battle over anything beyond essentially insignificant technicalities to be tantamount to an ego trip. "My personal knowledge is superior to the collective work of many individuals who live and breathe their respective fandoms and my personal assessment is superior to months of research and number crunching by two very dedicated individuals who have no personal interest in the outcome."

[TheMightyOzaru]

So much butthurt on Youtube that it's not even funny . After posing on DB forums for 10+ years, it seem like DB fans only know Superman from the cartoons and the movies. I don't think most DBZ fans in debates even read comics at all.

Which is precisely the problem. I had a field day with this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAf8CA9ARzk

Lol all the butthurt . People really do need to realize how overpowered Supes really is. I'm just happy Goku put up a fight at all.

[Gonstead]

I wonder why ScrewAttack didn't include this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peQZoTuL ... bw&index=1

I could see Post-Crisis Supes losing to an attack like that.

What's so special about this? It's just a Kamehameha. Just because it destroys the 'dimension' somehow it doesn't mean he can do that in the real dimension.

Yeah, I mean...it's just a feat. Supes can repair Galaxies and do all sorts of crazy stuff, so I don't see that making a lot of difference.

Something I was just thinking about. It's HUGELY out of character for Superman to destroy the Earth. Why didn't this factor into it more? It would've made more sense for Superman & Goku to go fight somewhere else.

Remember, this was meant to come out on December 21st 2012. The Earth exploding would have added to the joke.

[TonyTheTiger]

People really do need to realize how overpowered Supes really is.

Yeah, because of the nature of his story he's more or less completely broken in a fight since fighting is actually not what he's about in the first place. His power serves a different purpose. For all the talk of Superman being boring because he's invincible, it ignores the part of him that is incredibly vulnerable and the primary source of drama, his heart.

It's basically a reversal of the classic Greek myths where heroes were all about rising above ordinary people to accomplish amazing feats (and be jerkasses in the process). Superman is a tale of a god among men...where the men are the ones setting the standard by which the god tries to live up to. The entire Superman story basically shows just how human he is in spite of his power and how that's a good thing. Notice that most of his enemies, including Lex Luthor, are all about leaving humanity in the dust in various ways. Superman's real strength isn't found in blowing up planets. It's found in his morals and compassion, which are, ironically, also the things that make him less than invincible. Ya know, just like all of us.

Yeah, I really love Superman.

[mysticboy]

Hopefully Screw Attack can get more people helping the animator with the fight animations in the future. Lange (that's his name right?) can get some rest and the fights can start coming out quicker to satisfy some rabid fans.