Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

[Hellspawn28]

I like this guy's video on this battle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYX8LKgmAeo

[Saiga]

Does anyone know where Death Battle got the 500% increase for each Super Saiyan form in their Vegeta vs Shadow death battle?

[mysticboy]

I like this guy's video on this battle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYX8LKgmAeo

I subscribe to him.

[Kaboom]

Does anyone know where Death Battle got the 500% increase for each Super Saiyan form in their Vegeta vs Shadow death battle?

They consulted somewhere other than Daizex/Kanzentai/Kanzenshuu, that's how.... where... whatever.

[ShadowDude112]

So, I watched it again and in the credits I saw my name. In the special thanks at 32:18. Like, my real name. It was so awesome. I did give Ben the link to Kanzenshuu in a message on Facebook, so I guess it makes sense, I just didn't see it the first time. I feel like I'm special now. Hahahah. I'm kidding. I don't actually feel special.

OT: I dug the fight. Yeah, Supes is OP, everyone knows that, but I loved the animation and all the research, so there was really no biased opinion. I always loved Death Battle. One of my favorite ScrewAttack shows. This is pretty much the most epic one. Major props to the SA crew for all the hard work they put into this.

[Sshadow5001]

Ugh POS computer wont stream it properly is there any way I could download this video?

[ultimateemail5000]

This was really awesome, I like how they had so many fact's on the subject. Seeing Goku lose was a little sad, but it does make sense after everything had. Really good video. Though I will admit, I do not like MasakoX as Goku, but his SS4 Goku is really good.

[johnboy1]

I'm going to put this up front: I agree with the outcome of the battle. However, I still take issue with some of their calculations regarding Goku.

Regarding Goku's Strength:

Where did this 586 come from? Well, I know where it came from mathematically speaking (((40 x 2000) + 136.7) / 136.7 = 586). Logically speaking, though, I don't understand why his achievements are multiplied by this number or how it has any relevance at all beyond giving a theoretical limit to his skills in higher gravity. Regardless, I don't disagree with their conclusion here, but the 586 is going to cause some weird shit later on. As they said, Goku's theoretical SSj4 output should be 160 kilotons of force, which would actually gel nicely with the scene from GT where he struggles to keep a skyscraper propped up (GT making sense? It had to have been accidental).

Regarding Goku's Speed:

They divided his speed on Serpentine Road by ten to compensate for the gravity on Kaio's planet. That's lovely, except he wasn't on Kaio's planet when he accomplished this. And wait, if it was compensating for the gravity, it should be multiplying by ten because he would be faster under normal conditions! Regardless, from all appearances, Serpentine Road has normal gravity. So, discarding that and again tossing out the bizarre 586 figure, we get a theoretical SSj4 speed of 44 million kilometers per hour, which is around 1/20th of lightspeed.

Regarding Goku's Durability/Ki Output:

This one is completely fucked up. They point out that the bomb has a payload of 657 Mt, which they reasonably interpret as a measurement in quadrillion megatons since it's apparently a planet-killer. Then they completely disregard the number and simply use the minimum necessary tonnage to do that amount of damage. Fair enough, but why bring up the 657 at all? [Fun fact: a bomb that powerful would have a 1.5 million mile "kill radius", so even if the planet held together, humanity goes bye-bye.] Then they... divide by ten. For some reason. Yeah, I got nothin'. Then they divide by four to make up for Goku's maximum Kaio-ken level, which is fine. Then they do the weird 586 thing and SSj calculations and... get totally different answers than I did using their method. I must have screwed up the math somewhere. Anyway, stripping out the 10 and 586, that gives SSj4 Goku a resilience of 53 quintillion megatons (that's 18 zeros after the "53").

I would love for someone to correct me, because I'm simply not understanding their thought process here. By my reckoning, anyway, they were overly generous in their estimation of his speed and endurance. Now that I think of it, that may have been intentional considering what he was up against.

[SSj_Rambo]

They divided his speed on Snake Way by ten to compensate for the gravity on Kaio's planet. That's lovely, except he wasn't on Kaio's planet when he accomplished this. From all appearances, the Serpentine Road has normal gravity. So, discarding that and again tossing out the bizarre 586 figure, we get a theoretical SSj4 speed of 44,000,000 kilometers per hour.

I would love for someone to correct me, because I'm simply not understanding their thought process here.

That is a good point. Even if Snake Way did share the 10x gravity of Kaio's planet, nothing would be divided, it would be multiplied by 10. Not currently re-watching the video, so I may be remembering wrong. This all being said, I can't say I disagree one bit with the outcome they gave us!

[goku the krump dancer]

Superman being hurt by the Power Pole makes me wonder how he would fare against GohanBoo or Kid Boo since they are =/> SSJ3 level and are magical beings. Same with Vegetto since the Potara fusion is more magic based than the dance.

[dario03]

I think the only problem he would have would be Buu's magic beam. If Buu could land that then it should work. However physical hits from magically powered beings is usually fine, like the scene that they show him getting zapped by a guy with lightning is from the Superman/Shazaam short and he is fighting Black Adam. Usually Black Adam/Captain Marvel are around Superman in strength but Superman can take their punches fine, but the lightning jacks him up (though I think people exagerate his weakness to magic since those blasts would kill a normal person or even lesser super powered people).
I think it comes down to the intent of the magic, magically making you super strong doesn't mean you will bypass Supermans durability but enchanting a sword to cut anything will make it so you can cut Superman (like Wonder Woman did once) well actually it might not even have to be a enchantment to cut anything.

I'm going to put this up front: I agree with the outcome of the battle. However, I still take issue with some of their calculations regarding Goku.

Regarding Goku's Strength:

Where did this 586 come from? Well, I know where it came from mathematically speaking (((40 x 2000) + 136.7) / 136.7 = 586). Logically speaking, though, I don't understand why his achievements are multiplied by this number or how it has any relevance at all beyond giving a theoretical limit to his skills in higher gravity. The 40-ton scene represents Goku's greatest quantifiable feat of strength. This should put his theoretical SSj4 output at 160,000 tons of force, which would actually gel with the scene from GT where he struggles to keep a skyscraper propped up.

Regarding Goku's Speed:

They divided his speed on Serpentine Road by ten to compensate for the gravity on Kaio's planet. That's lovely, except he wasn't on Kaio's planet when he accomplished this. From all appearances, Serpentine Road has normal gravity. So, discarding that and again tossing out the bizarre 586 figure, we get a theoretical SSj4 speed of 44,000,000 kilometers per hour.

I would love for someone to correct me, because I'm simply not understanding their thought process here.

They do put his max lifting at 160,000 tons. And your right that does gel with the skyscrapper scene since it took him and Vegeta to lift it and they were struggling. Of course we don't know what that skyscrapper weighed but the example I used before was the Empire State building, which is around 375,000 tons and I don't think that building was as big.

But yeah I'm also not sure how they are coming up with his speed.

[yakonojo]

They said the snake way flying straight was about 300 000 km long so it took goku 28 hours (about 11 000km/hour) you have the speed of the goku at 10 times gravity's strength on normal gravity (am I making any sense?). At the beginning of buu saga we see him strungling with 40 ton which would mean he was at 586 times earth gravity's strength (let's say he's not struggling, after his training). So 11 000 x 58.6 = 644 600km/h (base goku with 586 tims earth gravity's strength) then you apply SSJ multiplier x 4000 = 2 578 400 km/h = 716 222 222m/s would be 2 times speed of light.
I think that's how they got it.
They didn't take into account goku fighting with uub in the begining of gt in normal form, that would increase his base form to SSJ3 and his speed would be like... just damn too fast, even for a super charged superman (800 x speed of light? ) ! So it would have come down to an overpowered slow 'guy' vs a super weak but overwhelmingly faster saiyan. now it's just his travelling speed, so his combat speed must be much faster.

[dario03]

The problem isn't so much the actual numbers but why are they using that equation. Like why does Goku struggling to lift 586x his weight mean that we times his Snake way speed by 586? If anything it would make more sense to times the speed he used to get to King Kai's the first time by 58.6 since thats when he struggled just to hold up his own weight at 10x gravity. But that doesn't work either since why does that directly relate to his speed? (plus that seems to slow and theres some other problems)

(Plus shouldn't that instance with the 40 tons been in metric tons which would make it ~646x)

[DanTheBib]

The problem with the 'Base GT Goku = SSJ3 Z Goku' is that it's broken. I mean, going by this logic, Ledgic (I think that's his name), whatever, the bodyguard of Don Kee in GT is then made stronger than Majin Buu, because Goku had to go SSJ to fight him. I don't know about you, but that doesn't sit well with me. That's why I think they ignored that idea.

[Saiga]

The problem with the 'Base GT Goku = SSJ3 Z Goku' is that it's broken. I mean, going by this logic, Ledgic (I think that's his name), whatever, the bodyguard of Don Kee in GT is then made stronger than Majin Buu, because Goku had to go SSJ to fight him. I don't know about you, but that doesn't sit well with me. That's why I think they ignored that idea.

GT didn't have a problem with Rilld being stronger than Boo.

[Sunlight & City Night]

Before I start I'm a big fan of both Goku and Superman...
Goku was beaten. That is fair enough.
Now lets see a Japanese take on it.
We all know who would win if they had a crack at this death battle concept.

Still while the video was well put together I found it rather absurd and not much better than your average fan fiction.
This fight would never take place anyway if they met each other and certainly not to the death.
Since when does Goku automatically assume that someone will destroy the planet?
He's always expecting people not to be evil at their core.
I have a big issue with Goku starting the fight too. Has he ever blasted someone he doesn't know with KI at random to provoke a fight before?
This is such a bad portrayal of Goku. MasakoX did a great job as always though. I did like whoever did Supermans voice too.

Also Vegeta would get involved before Superman could potentially kill Goku anyway!
Only he can be the one to defeat Kakarot! In fact that should have happened and then we could have seen a fusion!

I did nearly switch it off when they started showing the "Hope of the universe..." speech. I hate that scene so much!
As others have said though Superman vs Majin Buu would be a much more interesting fight seeing how he always seems to struggle against magical enemies.

I don't understand where they are getting all these numbers from for strength multipliers for Goku and his forms either. Surely they didn't come from here?
Obviously they used Super Saiyan 4 for dramatic reasons but why use that and then disregard the rest of GT?
If they wanted to they could have used the almost demi God Goku from the end of GT.
SSJ4 is just as inconsistant as the rest of that part of the series.
I feel like they sabotaged Goku from the first seconds of the show and simply resorted to amature guess work for him.
Seriously that Snake Road calculation is ridiculous and using Newtonian physics? Surely the same physics should then apply to Superman? Moving planets around should cause some rather odd things to happen to the solar system.

I suppose it had to end somehow but I think a draw and then they all go have some food would have been better!
As the video said in conclusion Goku has his limits but in a fight with someone as strong as Superman he would have broken them again of that of that I am certain.

Plus did anyone else find that weird hillbilly guy/co presenter really, really annoying?

The animation of the actual fight now makes me want to see a DC Comics vs Shonen Jump fighting game!
Batman vs Luffy!

[VegettoEX]

Guys and gals, OF COURSE these two would never fight.

But then you couldn't have this fight.

[Saiga]

Guys and gals, OF COURSE these two would never fight.

But then you couldn't have this fight.

I still think no reason given would be better than a half-assed one.

[yakonojo]

The problem isn't so much the actual numbers but why are they using that equation. Like why does Goku struggling to lift 586x his weight mean that we times his Snake way speed by 586? If anything it would make more sense to times the speed he used to get to King Kai's the first time by 58.6 since thats when he struggled just to hold up his own weight at 10x gravity. But that doesn't work either since why does that directly relate to his speed? (plus that seems to slow and theres some other problems)

(Plus shouldn't that instance with the 40 tons been in metric tons which would make it ~646x)

I m assuming that they assumed goku finished his training with 40 tons (like gohan when he struggled with the Z sword, he had to train in SSJ until he got accustomed to it in base form), their alternative was : 2ton on each limb would make the gravity 133 times the one on earth. Not so impressive since he trained at 100g on his way to namek (and got used to it in like 6 days)
I didn't do the math of the gravity with 40 tons, but It would be 40 065 / 65 = 416 (weight on new planet / weight on earth = number of times' earth gravity) I think

So they took goku post training before going back to earth and add him SSJ4 and the kamehame ha to the sun habit (seen only in movies and GT) ... I think that's the best you can get since goku in the end of Z has trained and is only shown to exchange couple blows with uub. And for GT... I don't get why they didn't take his GT base adult form ? oh well...

[Onikage725]

I thought the fight was awesome, and I agree with the outcome. I do (still) think Goku BEATS Superman. But this was a DEATH battle, and killing Superman is nearly impossible. Killing Goku is quite do-able, he just has a tendency to get better.

The stats for Goku were broken. All that fake math was as ridiculous as any post-Freeza power level list any of us has seen. Or done when we were in high school (ahem). "Well if you factor this feat against this other feat or statement by an equivalent character and then apply these two multipliers..." yeah, it's power levels all over again. Only worse, as they are trying to break down individual stats on an entirely original scale. At least a battle power list has some consistency and supported modifiers to a point.

The problem here, too, is that ki can't be pinned to a set number. So, power output, speed, and durability are all impossible to peg a stat to. Pinning Goku's durability to the Cell Saga, when you are applying GT powers, is ridiculous. And claiming his max feat should be measured by a planet-busting explosion is off. Vegeta, who has similar durability, survived an attack that overwhelmed his own planet-killer beam in the first Z saga.

The scenario they used, though, does support the victory. Pulling a movie 5 and blowing the enemy into the sun is the wrong move, as it puts Superman in god mode. And, if the planet dies, Superman can, like Freeza, survive. Goku has to leave or die.

I dont agree with the power scaling of the fight. Superman with little noticeable effort goes from having trouble with SSJ Goku to fighting evenly with SSJ4. Rule of cool wins here- they wanted to showcase Goku's forms. By rights, if they wanted to assume full-powered modern Superman = SSJ4 scale, then Goku should have started the fight at SSJ2 or 3. So I'll let that slide for sheer awesomness of the battle :p

That's my 2 cents!