Cell a Solar System Buster ?

[Bussani]

I was taking the amount needed to destroy Earth and multiplying it by the Sun's mass.

Okay, that explains the different results. That's technically not how you'd go about working it out, at least in real life. 165 septillion megatons is the real world answer.

Ten billion megatons is required to blow up the moon.

The amount you put for Earth seems right, but I think the Moon one is off. The Moon should require around 30 trillion megatons.

I'm trying to find an accurate megatons to Ki conversion right now.

I tried this sort of thing over the last couple of days, but the results aren't promising. I think Toriyama's numbers are just too inconsistent to find a good conversion like that, which isn't really a surprise to me. Unless we simply throwing real life physics out the window entirely and deciding how hard it is to blow up planets and stars for ourselves, I'm not too optimistic about finding any sort of pattern here.

Edit:

I'm sure somebody would be kind enough to estimate how many megatons would be required for a planet of Earth's size with a gravity of 10 times that of Earth

It would be nearly three times denser than uranium and require around 5.3 quintillion megatons to destroy. That's one hundred times more than the energy needed to destroy the Earth.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Interesting. 100x Earth busting for Planet Vegeta but Frieza isn't 100x stronger than Scouter Vegeta in his first form. It would seem the differences only get bigger. Man Toriyama wasn't kidding when he said power levels couldn't be measured anymore. Its all up to the audience to decide what these guys can do.

[Hitiro]

The amount you put for Earth seems right, but I think the Moon one is off. The Moon should require around 30 trillion megatons.

It would be nearly three times denser than uranium and require around 5.3 quintillion megatons to destroy. That's one hundred times more than the energy needed to destroy the Earth.

Considering this then Freeza's ki destructiveness in his first form is around 176,667 times greater than Roshi's. If destructiveness of ki and powerlevels scaled linearly then Freeza would need a powerlevel of about 176,667 times stronger than Roshi's for a ki destructiveness of around 176,667 times stronger which would mean Freeza would need a powerlevel of 24,203,379 to have destroyed planet Vegeta. Yet he does it with a powerlevel of 530,000, he has a powerlevel around 46 times weaker than what would be actually necessary if it was linearly scaled. If we take the fact that Freeza is close to 3,869 times stronger than Roshi and for every 3,869 times more powerlevel than Roshi a person is their ki destructiveness is 176,667 times stronger then.

Roshi's Powerlevel: 137
Roshi's ki destructiveness: 30 trillion MT

Around Freeza's Powerlevel: 137*3,869 = 530,053
Around Freeza's ki destructiveness: 30 trillion*176,667 = 5.3 quintillion MT

Around Freeza's 100% final form Powerlevel: 530,053*226 = 119,791,978
Around Freeza's 100% final form ki destructiveness: 5.3 quintillion*226 = 1.1978 Sextillion MT

Of course these numbers don't make much sense seeing as how it couldn't be linearly scaled. But a character with a powerlevel in the 100 billions would be outputting Septillion MT's worth of destructiveness. A person with a powerlevel of 119,791,978,000 would be dishing out 1.1978 Septillion MT's worth of damage.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Ok I think I got a pretty good conversion method. For every 5x increase you get in your power level you get a 10x increase in your megaton output. Yes I know that would put the farmer in the hundreds of billions of megatons but I have an argument that makes linear scaling somewhat accurate. My idea is that the farmer has 100 billion+ megatons in dormant potential. Now you might say well thats crazy. My response would be: so is a man only 36x stronger than the farmer producing 30 trillion megatons or more. I like the idea that people with low power levels have a potential that is increased through mastering Ki. The farmer may only be able to crush rocks but if he were to train his Ki that potential skyrockets to the necessary amount we see in the series at the right time. After some calculations a power level of 125 or more would be enough to destroy the moon. If we keep multiplying that power level by 5 we should hit the necessary Megaton output to destroy the sun by 100 billion+. I would put Cell at about 148 billion myself making Cell's claim more or less correct depending on how you view it.
EDIT: Ok new-ish theory: I have actually found a decent method of calculating ones maximum output. Now I know this is gonna sound weird but this essentially reflects EV training in Pokemon. for every 4x increase you receive your Megaton output multiplies by 10. Now I know what you're thinking, that would put the farmer at 100 billion(+) megatons. Yes but I have a theory that would make such a thing possible. You see the farmer has 100 billion megatons in dormant potential. As he trains he will eventually be able to access that energy and more since his potential will rise as he increases his power level. In other words that amount of power will remain inaccessible until he reaches a certain level in his training. This would explain why Master Roshi is able to output 30 trillion+ megatons when he is only 36x stronger than him at full power. This would also make Cell a star buster at a power level of 6 billion+ which isn't outlandish at all. Now if you want him to destroy the entirety of the Solar System that would require a power level of 8 trillion+. There really isn't anything that contradicts this and quite frankly it eliminates any discrepancies between Megatons and Ki we've seen in the series. This works for me.

[Bussani]

I guess that's one way of looking at it. I'm not sure I like the idea that a well trained person with a battle power of 5 would be able to wipe out all life on Earth, but I don't really care about battle powers that much to begin with, so who cares what I think?

[mysticboy]

I guess that's one way of looking at it. I'm not sure I like the idea that a well trained person with a battle power of 5 would be able to wipe out all life on Earth, but I don't really care about battle powers that much to begin with, so who cares what I think?

Goku had a power level of 2.

[Fox666]

deleted

[hleV]

Goku had a power level of 2.

Only if you go with Bardock's special, which was made by Toei just like the rest of the movies.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I guess that's one way of looking at it. I'm not sure I like the idea that a well trained person with a battle power of 5 would be able to wipe out all life on Earth, but I don't really care about battle powers that much to begin with, so who cares what I think?

By the time he could do that his power level would have already skyrocketed to the necessary amount that makes sense. Something like 75-100 at that point. Thats also why I called it potential. That ability remains dormant until a specific power level.

The farmer may only be able to crush rocks

Ever since when ordinary people can do that??

Small ones if he tried .

[shaun2306]

Cell can blow away an entire Solar System for 4 reasons:

Akira Toriyam wrote it that wayEvery piece of Media confirms thisA “Film Anime Comics” Guide (which is like an official guide) confirms thisIf we look at story arcs and character progression Cell would need to logically be able to do this.

http://www.kanzentai.com/chp.php?id=415

 

SOME PEOPLE SAY CELL IS A SOLAR SYSTEM BUSTER BECAUSE OF THE OVERWHELMING AMOUNT OF MEDIA WHICH SUPPORT THIS THEORY, AND BECUASE WHEN HE CAME BACK AS SUPER PERFECT CELL THAT IS HOW AUTHOR AKIRA TORIYAMA PORTRAYED CELL'S ADDED POWER: MANGA

 


 

 

 ANIMES: 

 

HTTP://YOUTU.BE/ND2I9EGDHTM?T=5M38S   (5 MIN 38SEC)

 

 HTTP://YOUTU.BE/GOSCCZE3BJC?T=5M42S    (5 MIN 42S)

 

 

JAPANESE SUBTITLES

 

 

 

 

IT IS EVEN IN THE VIDEO GAMES:

to name a few:

HTTP://YOUTU.BE/KWSVTJJPYQA?T=9M42S (9MIN 42SEC)

 

HTTP://YOUTU.BE/T5BEZOSJU74?T=8M15S   (8 MIN 15 SEC)

HTTP://WWW.YOUTUBE.COM/WATCH?V=MIIO-FIH-1K

 

 BUT HONESTLY IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE IN THE DRAGON BALL UNIVERSE? 

 

YESBECUASE DRAGON BALL FIGHTERS CAN FOCUS THEIR ENERGY INTO A SINGLE POINT OR MAKE IT EXPANSIVE.JUST ASK RADITZ:

 

OR VEGETA

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

SO SINCE IN DRAGON BALL "KI USERS" CAN THEORETICALLY DESTROY A SOLAR SYSTEM IN A SINGLE BLAST DOES THAT MEAN CELL'S STATEMENTS ARE JUST HYPERBOLE, BECAUSE HE STILL LACKED THE POWER TO DO SO?ACTUALLY NO, ASIDE FROM THE ABOVE MEDIA CONFIRMATIONS THERE IS DEFINITIVE PROOF THAT IT IS NOT HYPERBOLE.AT LEAST ONE “FILM ANIME COMICS” GUIDE THAT I HAVE COME ACROSS THAT WAS WRITTEN FOR THE MANGA AND ANIME, AND BEFORE AKIRA TORIYAMA HAD CREATED SUPER SAIYAN 3, DISCUSSES THE DIFFERENT FORMS OF SUPER SAIYANS AS GRADES AND WHAT EACH "GRADE" WAS CAPALE OF.THAT GUIDE EXCERPTED BELOW STATES THAT SUPER SAIYAN 2'S OR "SUPER SAIYAN GRADE 5'S"... "POWER IS ENOUGH TO PUSH BACK EVEN CELL'S ENERGY BULLET, WHICH HAD ENOUGH FORCE TO BLOW AWAY THE SOLAR SYSTEM!"

[Above is the Cantonese version released in Hong Kong. It too says "超級賽亞人第五階段" (Super Saiyan Grade Five) and the Japanese Version is discussed below]

 

BACKGROUND ON THE GUIDE:        THIS INFORMATION COMES FROM A “FILM ANIME COMICS” PUBLISHED ON MAY 31ST, 1993. AT THIS POINT IN TIME THE MANGA WAS JUST BEGINNING THE BUU ARC, WHILE THE ANIME HAD ONLY JUST RECENTLY PASSED THE POINT WHERE GOHAN TRANSFORMS INTO (WHAT WOULD LATER BE KNOWN AS) SUPER SAIYAN 2. SPECIFICALLY, GOHAN TRANSFORMS IN DBZ EPISODE 184, BROADCAST MAY 5TH 1993, WHILE THE LAST EPISODE SHOWN IN MAY WAS EPISODE 187, WHERE CELL REVERTS TO HIS SECOND FORM.  AS A RESULT, THIS FEATURE IS THEREFORE ILLUSTRATED WITH ANIME SCREAN-SHOTS.            DAIZENSHUU 2 USES THE "GRADE" TERMINOLOGY TO REFER TO THE MUSCULAR FORMS. THIS COMES IN THE BOOK'S "GROWING UP" SECTION, WHICH GOES OVER THE DIFFERENT AGES, APPEARANCES, AND FORMS OF THE CHARACTERS THROUGHOUT THE SERIES.

 

 

THE JAPANESE “FILM ANIME COMICS” GUIDE

Translation:

Red words:  "Everything's super!! Declare this invincible Saiya-Power!!"

Black words: "Super Saiyan Grade Five (Strongest Form). An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"

 

 

 

Translation:
[lineup of Broli's forms]
"--Normal

--Super Saiyan

--Super Saiyan (Final Form)

[Red and Black Text on Right]

A Super Saiyan that has achieved a different evolution!!
Broli appeared in the movie "Burn Up!! A Red-Hot, Raging, Super Fierce Fight". His final form resembles Super Saiyan Grade Three. But his speed is ultra first-class, and he could be called a Super Saiyan who has achieved a different evolution than Goku and the others!"

 

 

So there you have it, Cell is a confirmed as being able to create a Ki attack powerful enough to blow away the entire Solar System.

 

 

AND BESIDES THIS JUST MAKES SENSE. WHY WOULD TORIYAMA-SENSEI HAVE CELL LIE IN ORDER TO CREATE READER CONFUSION?BESIDES THE SERIES WORKS BASED ON ABILITY PROGRESSION:FRIEZA DESTROYED PLANETS WITH RELATIVE EASE IN SINGLE BLASTS

 

 

THE MOVIES WERE MADE WITH THE APPROVAL OF AKIRA TORIYAMA AND KEPT TANGENTIAL TO THE STORY LINE. AS SUCH THE MOVIES DID NOT ALTER THE RESPECTIVE ABILITIES OF THE CHARACTERS PER MOMENT IN THE ANIME OR MANGA WHERE THEY WOULD RESPECTIVELY CONCEIVABLY BE ALLOCATED (WELL EXCEPT FOR WRATH OF THE DRAGON WHICH WAS AFTER THE KID BUU SAGA...)

Anyways...

After Frieza there was Cooler, who was more powerful than Frieza and therefore, as he states, could destroy stars:

HTTP://YOUTU.BE/QRFT4-WGIZW?T=4M15S

THEN CAME THE ANDROIDS FOLLOWED BY BROLYBROLY COULD DESTROY PORTIONS OF GALAXIES IN MOMENTS

HTTP://WWW.YOUTUBE.COM/WATCH?V=9DLXAMUBEC4

 

 

 

 

 

 

BROLY THROWS A SMALL ENERGY BALL OVER HIS SHOULDER WHICH WAS POWERFUL ENOUGH TO DESTROY A PLANET WITH NO EFFORTHTTP://WWW.YOUTUBE.COM/WATCH?V=S5ENK5ZICRY

 

 

HERE IS ALSO THE "DEBUNKING" VIDEO WHICH ACTUALLY SHOWS ALL OF THIS: HTTP://WWW.YOUTUBE.COM/WATCH?V=RPHDGN3U ... .BE&T=3M6S ALSO IN TERMS OF PROGRESSION WE SEE THAT BROLY IS MORE DURABLE THAN COOLER

 

 

 

 

 

NEXT, WE HAD CELL WHO COULD ACTUALLY BLOW AWAY AN ENTIRE  SOLAR SYSTEM WITH EFFORT IN A SINGLE BLAST

 

 

Then, came the movie Bojack Unbound in which Bojack actually  Destroyed portions of  Galaxies in an instant before the Kais sealed him in a star, he also gets instantly destroyed by Gohan's Full Powered Kamehameha.

HTTP://WWW.DBZ.TV/3/WATCH/DRAGONBALL-Z-MOVIE-9/ (PART 2 AT 12:08 ...BLOWING UP PORTIONS OF GALAXIES AND THEN BEING SEALED INSIDE A STAR BECAUSE HE WAS TOO POWERFUL TO BE KILLED BY THE KAIS...BUT GOHAN KILLS HIM)

 

 

Next, we have Majin Buu who is more powerful than Cell and actually DID demonstrate his ability to effortlessly destroy Earth were he not to be in control.

 

 

 

 

THEN we have Buu (pure evil) who was more powerful than Fat Buu and actually showed he had the power to destroy at least the equivalent of 10 planets in a single blast with no effort!  (there are 8 planets in our Solar System: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune)

HTTP://YOUTU.BE/WW3ZD5QOL74?T=2M13S

 

There is no telling how powerful Buu was if he actually went all out and fully powered up and shot a single blast.

In fact, Toriyama said Buu's power was immeasurable! Hence why a Genki Dama of immeasurable power was also needed.

FROM THE VERY FIRST ISSUE OF THE AMERICAN "SHONEN JUMP", DATED: VOL. 1, #1, JANUARY 2003:"ASK AKIRA TORIYAMA!
FROM 1998 TO 2002, THE DRAGON BALL AND DRAGON BALL Z MONTHLY COMICS RECEIVED THOUSANDS OF LETTERS FROM FANS IN THE U.S., CANADA, AND AROUND THE WORLD. WE'VE TAKEN THE MOST INTERESTING QUESTIONS FROM THE LETTERS AND ASKED AKIRA TORIYAMA HIMSELF!...Q: WHAT IS MAJIN BUU'S POWER LEVEL?

A: THE FRIGHTENING THING ABOUT MAJIN BUU IS HIS UNKNOWN, UNFATHOMABLE POWER. WHETHER IT'S ACTUALLY NOT THAT MUCH, OR WHETHER IT'S REALLY STUPENDOUS, MAJIN BUU HIMSELF PROBABLY DOESN'T KNOW THE ANSWER."HTTP://WWW.KANZENSHUU.COM/FORUM/VIEWTOP ... .DAIZENSHU 2, P. 217:

 

 

Notably the Daizenshuu discussed the anime too and states that when Buu absorbed Gohan and fought Vegeto and went into a frenzy Buu could have destroyed the universe.

 

 

 

 

Needless to say it seems pretty apparent [even with out the definitive “Film Anime Comics” Guide and plethora of other media] that Cell was written by Akira Toriyama has having enough power to blow away and entire Solar System and Gohan having more ki than that as an Ascended Super Saiyan.

 

 

Special Thanks to Valfranx who showed me the “Film Anime Comics” Guide.

Special Thanks to Marduk who showed me the correct name for the Guide.

» Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =7&t=22411; http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/01/26/wh ... was-named/ 

[apex_pretador]

I guess that's one way of looking at it. I'm not sure I like the idea that a well trained person with a battle power of 5 would be able to wipe out all life on Earth, but I don't really care about battle powers that much to begin with, so who cares what I think?

50, he can turn ozaru

[KentalSSJ6]

Why are we bringing back near 4 year old threads?

[manwolf]

Roshi and Piccolo can destroy the moon with a power level of 139 and 329 and the moon have a mass of 7.342×10^22 kilograms.

The earth have a mass of 5.97237×1024 kilograms, roughly 81 times more of the mass of the moon a character need between 11259 and 26649 roughly the power of vegeta in his combat with Goku so it make sense that he says that he can destroy the earth.

The sun have a mass of 1.98855×10^30 kilograms, roughly 332958 times the mass of the earth, so we need a power level between 3.748.774.122 and 8.872.997.742.

Only the more conservative power level list puts Perfect cell under these number and the majority of the list put these character in these number of with more level so it is make sense that cell can destroy the sun.

[Gorou]

Of course can do it. This is the thought of Toriyama which caused him to say that sentence

Why he could not do it ??

[apex_pretador]

Roshi and Piccolo can destroy the moon with a power level of 139 and 329 and the moon have a mass of 7.342×10^22 kilograms.

The earth have a mass of 5.97237×1024 kilograms, roughly 81 times more of the mass of the moon a character need between 11259 and 26649 roughly the power of vegeta in his combat with Goku so it make sense that he says that he can destroy the earth.

The sun have a mass of 1.98855×10^30 kilograms, roughly 332958 times the mass of the earth, so we need a power level between 3.748.774.122 and 8.872.997.742.

Only the more conservative power level list puts Perfect cell under these number and the majority of the list put these character in these number of with more level so it is make sense that cell can destroy the sun.

Energy required to destroy the earth is 1000 times that of moon

Energy required to destroy the sun / solar system is 1,000,000,000 times the energy reqd to destroy earth = 1,000,000,000,000 times the energy required to desrtoy moon

Power levels are not linearly scaled , farmer with shotgun CAN NOT destroy a city block.



Power levels are only indicator of who will win in a fight , that's it. No more , no less.

[manwolf]

Based on kaioken we can deduce that the power levels works more or less in a linearly scaled, the power levels maybe doesn't work with weaker characters but with the characters in Saiyan and Frieza saga works and is in these saga that we have satellite and planet busters, but ok let's doesn't work with power levels and with the mass of the planets but with the energy you need to destroy them

So we need to destroy the moon is 5.1101*1'^18 and Roshi or Piccolo can destroy the moon.

The energy necessary to destroy the earth is 1.5254*10^21, 300 plus times the energy necessary to destroy the moon, maybe Vegeta cannot destroy the earth in the you have not planet sense but Frieza can and he destroy a planet similar to the earth.

The energy necessary to destroy the sun is 3.487*10^29, 30 millions times you need to destroy the earth, ok cell cannot destroy the sun in a literal sense but how many energy can put.

Frieza have the power to destroy a planet in his first form, her second form is two times power and so on, so Goku in his combat with Frieza have the power of eight Frieza in his initial form, plus 50 we have 400 time more the energy to destroy the earth, we don't know the difference between supersaiyan Goku and Perfect cell but let's say that cell can put ten thousand times the energy necessary to destroy the earth, maybe he cannot destroy the sun directly but we donst know the reaction that the sun can give more in a fictional word like Dragon Ball.

[apex_pretador]

Based on kaioken we can deduce that the power levels works more or less in a linearly scaled, the power levels maybe doesn't work with weaker characters but with the characters in Saiyan and Freeza saga works and is in these saga that we have satellite and planet busters, but ok let's doesn't work with power levels and with the mass of the planets but with the energy you need to destroy them

So we need to destroy the moon is 5.1101*1'^18 and Roshi or Piccolo can destroy the moon.

The energy necessary to destroy the earth is 1.5254*10^21, 300 plus times the energy necessary to destroy the moon, maybe Vegeta cannot destroy the earth in the you have not planet sense but Freeza can and he destroy a planet similar to the earth.

The energy necessary to destroy the sun is 3.487*10^29, 30 millions times you need to destroy the earth, ok cell cannot destroy the sun in a literal sense but how many energy can put.

Freeza have the power to destroy a planet in his first form, her second form is two times power and so on, so Goku in his combat with Freeza have the power of eight Freeza in his initial form, plus 50 we have 400 time more the energy to destroy the earth, we don't know the difference between supersaiyan Goku and Perfect cell but let's say that cell can put ten thousand times the energy necessary to destroy the earth, maybe he cannot destroy the sun directly but we donst know the reaction that the sun can give more in a fictional word like Dragon Ball.

huh?
It is more like:
10^29
10^32
10^41
in Joules.
You need billion times energy reqd to earth bust than sun-bust.
Freeza actually destroyed a planet which needs atleast 100x the energy to be destroyed.

Again, power levels are not linear, because base BoG goku can't beat freeza's 120 million , & no matter how you scaale it, you can never eveeeeeeeeeeeer get to energy reqd to sun-bust even with super vegetto IF AND ONLY IF you go by "power level scaling".


Solution: Power levels are just indicator of who will win in a fight, not necessarily about anything else.

[manwolf]

Yeah i have the calculations wrong and you're numbers are right.

But the logic mantains, Frieza have more power that the necessary to destroy a earth like planet and these number is the minimum to bust a celestial body in the real world only adding energy, DB verse is a fictional word with maybe different parameters and we cannot know the effect of cell attack in the sun, remember that the numbers in the real word means that the celestial body ceases to have a gravitational bound state aka the moon/planet/star is absolutely bust, not something different that can destroy the star.

[apex_pretador]

Yeah i have the calculations wrong and you're numbers are right.

But the logic mantains, Freeza have more power that the necessary to destroy a earth like planet and these number is the minimum to bust a celestial body in the real world only adding energy, DB verse is a fictional word with maybe different parameters and we cannot know the effect of cell attack in the sun, remember that the numbers in the real word means that the celestial body ceases to have a gravitational bound state aka the moon/planet/star is absolutely bust, not something different that can destroy the star.

my calculations indicate that 100% Freeza must be able to destroy 8,000 earths with his full power

[manwolf]

We are looking to destroy the sun like we destroy the earth, with a ridiculous quantity of energy, but maybe we can create an event that produce this quantity of energy not a character that directly produce this energy.

To have this we need a ridiculous quantity of hydrogen and something that fuse this hydrogen, well we have a star that actually fuses hydrogen and a characters that have the energy to destroy a ridiculous quantity of planets, so maybe this is ridiculous but in a series with time travel and instant reduce matter this make sense, Cell only need to begins a reaction that fuses the hydrogen that create the energy to destroy the sun not to produce the energy.