What's the deal with power levels?

chronocross · Post by **chronocross** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:33 pm

Well, I have always wondered about how powerfull is each character. About 5 years ago i found out in the internet some numbers describing the power of each character. I bet you guys have seen those all over the place. I want to know if those are true numbers and how did they got them. Are those number canon. Because, in many of them i see Mr. Satan having way more power that Goku from way back on Dragonball (http://www.gojiita.net/dbzpl.php). I mean Chibi Goku can totally kick Mr. Satan's @$$ any time (even on Satan's prime).
Also how did they measure them if a normal scouter gets destroyed after more than 1000 000 level is reached.
Well thanks

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:30 pm

Pretty much anything for everyone after Trunks' arrival is false since Battle Powers are never touched upon again. Battle Powers are basically one's amount of Ki rounded up into a number.

Because the Scouters are pretty much destroyed after Trunks takes care of Freeza, King Cold and their men, no one ever reads any Battle Powers of anyone. Especially since no Scouter would probably be capable of staying intact while reading anyone going Super Saiyan and so forth.

Though some Battle Powers do get messed up from time to time. I believe even the Daizenshuu have screwed up the actual Battle Power levels.

In terms of canon, the last Battle Power reading we see in the manga (and later in the anime) is the reading of 5. Which is Trunks' reading before he chops up Freeza's men. And as for Dragon Ball, none should even really exist since no one really ever fought over having more Ki or having a bigger Battle Power. It was more of who trained more and better. Not to mention, Scouters weren't introduced until Radditz arrived.

chronocross · Post by **chronocross** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:57 pm

Thank you very much. Now I am sure Chibi Goku can definately kick Mr. Satan's @$$

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:00 pm

Anyone who can use Ki can just about kick his ass.

Mr. Satan is the strongest regular human, though probably not as strong as Videl. Won't exactly count Oob since he's not only the reincarnation of Majin Boo, but also can use Ki after training with Goku.

Majin Kakarot · Post by **Majin Kakarot** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:09 pm

Tsukento wrote:Pretty much anything for everyone after Trunks' arrival is false since Battle Powers are never touched upon again. Battle Powers are basically one's amount of Ki rounded up into a number.

Because the Scouters are pretty much destroyed after Trunks takes care of Freeza, King Cold and their men, no one ever reads any Battle Powers of anyone. Especially since no Scouter would probably be capable of staying intact while reading anyone going Super Saiyan and so forth.

Though some Battle Powers do get messed up from time to time. I believe even the Daizenshuu have screwed up the actual Battle Power levels.

In terms of canon, the last Battle Power reading we see in the manga (and later in the anime) is the reading of 5. Which is Trunks' reading before he chops up Freeza's men. And as for Dragon Ball, none should even really exist since no one really ever fought over having more Ki or having a bigger Battle Power. It was more of who trained more and better. Not to mention, Scouters weren't introduced until Radditz arrived.

1. there were killi readings later on..

2. In the boo saga, Goku mentions he is "1,000" x stronger than Satan. I call BS on that one. Mr.Satan's PL, at best, sould be like 20. and that would mean Goku's PL would be 20,000!! WTF??!!!

3. Also, Gohan was slower than he should be as GS. I took him 20 minutes(I think. I gotta go check the manga to know for sure..) to fly 50,000 km. He should be much faster than that! Goku in the Ginyu fight was faster than that, even with a PL of 90,000!!

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:24 pm

2. In the boo saga, Goku mentions he is "1,000" x stronger than Satan. I call BS on that one. Mr.Satan's PL, at best, sould be like 20. and that would mean Goku's PL would be 20,000!! WTF??!!!

3. Also, Gohan was slower than he should be as GS. I took him 20 minutes(I think. I gotta go check the manga to know for sure..) to fly 50,000 km. He should be much faster than that! Goku in the Ginyu fight was faster than that, even with a PL of 90,000!!

Power Levels/Battle Powers are just ESTIMATES of one's power rounded up into a number. o_o They don't judge anything determining speed. Hell, Goten could become a Super Saiyan and didn't even know how to fly.

As for Goku's mentioning of being 1,000 times stronger than Mr. Satan, it's pretty much true. He is FAR stronger than Satan. Though this also means Toriyama dropped all Scouter related things and it's simply a saying going on about how Goku's much stronger.

Again, Battle Powers DO NOT come into play anymore once Trunks is scanned and he kills all of Freeza's men as well as Freeza and Cold.

I took him 20 minutes(I think. I gotta go check the manga to know for sure..) to fly 50,000 km

You make it sound like it's that simple, to begin with. >_>;

Majin Kakarot · Post by **Majin Kakarot** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:38 pm

Tsukento wrote:
2. In the boo saga, Goku mentions he is "1,000" x stronger than Satan. I call BS on that one. Mr.Satan's PL, at best, sould be like 20. and that would mean Goku's PL would be 20,000!! WTF??!!!

3. Also, Gohan was slower than he should be as GS. I took him 20 minutes(I think. I gotta go check the manga to know for sure..) to fly 50,000 km. He should be much faster than that! Goku in the Ginyu fight was faster than that, even with a PL of 90,000!!
Power Levels/Battle Powers are just ESTIMATES of one's power rounded up into a number. o_o They don't judge anything determining speed. Hell, Goten could become a Super Saiyan and didn't even know how to fly.

As for Goku's mentioning of being 1,000 times stronger than Mr. Satan, it's pretty much true. He is FAR stronger than Satan. Though this also means Toriyama dropped all Scouter related things and it's simply a saying going on about how Goku's much stronger.

Again, Battle Powers DO NOT come into play anymore once Trunks is scanned and he kills all of Freeza's men as well as Freeza and Cold.

I took him 20 minutes(I think. I gotta go check the manga to know for sure..) to fly 50,000 km
You make it sound like it's that simple, to begin with. >_>;

1. Vegeta says that his speed increased along with his PL when he fights Cewi or whatever he was. It's just those damned USSJ's that decrease speed.
2. Yeah. I guess you're right. But there were countless PL inconsitantsies, such as: goku not being able to move with 40 tons. What the hell? I know he dropped PL's when they got out of hand, bu this is just ridiculous. Goku, with a PL of about 400, was able to move(barely) with 1,600 kg on him. (the 100 kg of extra weight, and his body weight mulitplied by 10, due to the higher gravity of Kaio's planet.) Goku against Vegeta and Nappa had a base PL of about 8,000, meaning he should be able to move with 32,000 kg of weight attatched.(32 tons) Kaioken that(basically a fancy way to say, "double") and we get 64 fucking tons!!!

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:52 pm

These are all of the Power Levels Stated in the Manga.

Farmer - 5
Piccolo (weights) - 408
Piccolo - 322
Son Goku (weights) - 416
Son Goku - 334
Son Gohan, distressed - 710
Raditz - Over 1,200
Son Goku, weighted clothes removed - 416
Piccolo, weighted clothes removed - 408
Son Goku, preparing the "Kamehameha" - 924 (and rising)
Piccolo, using the "Light of Death" - 1,330
Son Gohan, enraged - 1,307
Son Gohan, normal - 1

Kame-Sen'nin - 139
Kuririn - 206
Yamcha - 177
Tenshinhan - 250
Piccolo (weights) - 329

Cultivar(s) / Saibamen - Over 1,200
Piccolo, Kuririn, and Son Gohan - 1,220, 1,083, 981 (Not necessarily in order)
Son Gohan, enraged & firing a "Masenko" - 2,800
Son Goku – Over 8,000

Son Goku, performing the ”Kaio-ken” times three – 21,000 (and rising)

Kuririn & Gohan - "About 1,500"
Vegeta – 24,000
Kiwi – 18,000
Namekian Warriors, supressed – 1,000
Namekian Warriors - 3,000

Son Goku, supressed – 5,000
Ginyu – 120,000
Son Goku – "About 85,000" (Proven to be 90,000, based on "Kaio-ken" reading)
Son Goku, performing the ”Kaio-ken” – 180,000
Nail – 42,000
Freeza, full power – 530,000
Ginyu, in Goku's body – 23,000
Freeza, 2nd form - "Over a million"

Trunks, suppressed - 5

The Daizenshuu levels are pretty close, and only add on a couple others, but stop with Super Saiyan Son Goku at 150,000,000.

Anything that goes outside that you see on the internet is a sheet of guesses, especially for the Cell and Boo Arcs. All guesses, educated or otherwise.

Majin Kakarot · Post by **Majin Kakarot** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:54 pm

I'm pretty sure that 924 was actually 936.. but I have a short memory.. so better check the manga.. as always.

lost in thought · Post by **lost in thought** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:09 pm

2. Yeah. I guess you're right. But there were countless PL inconsitantsies, such as: goku not being able to move with 40 tons. What the hell? I know he dropped PL's when they got out of hand, bu this is just ridiculous. Goku, with a PL of about 400, was able to move(barely) with 1,600 kg on him. (the 100 kg of extra weight, and his body weight mulitplied by 10, due to the higher gravity of Kaio's planet.) Goku against Vegeta and Nappa had a base PL of about 8,000, meaning he should be able to move with 32,000 kg of weight attatched.(32 tons) Kaioken that(basically a fancy way to say, "double") and we get 64 fucking tons!!!

Krunk think lump of text is bad.

Anyway, although I figure I am missing whatever point you were trying to make, I wonder what the hell does lifting stones have to do with judgemental battle power determination?

Wait... don't tell me... nevermind; battle power calculation is so fucking inconsistent it's best not to know, on top of it getting shunted by the arrival of Trunks, it falls to a point of mediocrity.

What I want to know is why we consistently get these topics?!

Meri · Post by **Meri** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:53 pm

I wish I didn't read the title of this thread with Jerry Seinfeld's voice popping in my head, saying the sentence.

But yeah... power levels... lame.... inaccurate... pointless. /end my .02

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:15 pm

Power levels make baby Jesus cry.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:23 pm

What are you all, eight? That's like saying "guh...saiyans..." It's just another element of Dragonball. I hate this whole "power levels are for babies" attitude that so many of you oldbies have developed.

Domon · Post by **Domon** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:57 pm

Dayspring wrote:What are you all, eight? That's like saying "guh...saiyans..." It's just another element of Dragonball. I hate this whole "power levels are for babies" attitude that so many of you oldbies have developed.

The problem with power level is that it's all a meaningless set of number when you get down to it. Saying that "X character has "a PL of 32752733290, but Y character has a PL of 438743332" doesn't make for a very interesting discussion, and after awhile, such arguements gets bogged down in numberbabble(word ripped off from Star Trek's technobabble problem). I really don't see why so many find such jibba-jabba so debate-worthy.

The power level thing was used early on in DBZ because it was an easy and simple way of showing the difference in characters' powers(and the numbers were much smaller and more managable). But by the Andriod Arc, the numbers just got too big and large and thus, meaningless. It's hard to comprehend how strong 184335757849867325 is suppose to be, as opposed to 432 or something like that. At that point, it's just better to say "well, he's helluva tough" than to insert some big number with no real meaning.

gohan2k · Post by **gohan2k** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:17 pm

Power levels was probably my favourite aspect of DBZ when I was a newbie about six years ago and I still have a soft spot for them but apart from the fact that a scouter couldn't measure high power levels they also are useless because of people supressing their power anyway or using special attacks that on their own are higher than their supposed "power level" anyway.

But you can still make up power levels anyway - just don't try to make them up for DBGT or the Garlic Junior saga as that will drive you mad

chronocross · Post by **chronocross** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:06 pm

I think power levels are very important in the begining because it gave us some ground. For example when i finally took physics I applied the Force and Power formula to obtain other numbers, it was fun and kind of geeky, but i loved it. Anyhow i really loved the answer i got. Speciallt the one about baby Jesus

.
However, now my personal opinion about power levels is the they constrict the imagination.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:23 pm

Power Level discussion isn't a bad thing so long as everyone keeps it mature and in context, just like pretty much any other Dragonball discussion topic.

Hating them in all their existence doesn't help anyone...and thinking they are more important than oxygen is stupid...balance it out, and everyone can have a good time.

unstable_person99 · Post by **unstable_person99** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:56 pm

I don't really hate power levels but it just hurts my brain when I see all those numbers in a power level discussion.

Kodoshin · Post by **Kodoshin** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:30 pm

I think the statement Goku made referring to Satan was not an actual attempt at measuring their powers as much as showing how utterly pointless fusing with him would be (even in the best case scenario), he even mentions in the same breath that he could possibly lose power if they fused (IIRC).

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:48 am

Domon wrote:
Dayspring wrote:What are you all, eight? That's like saying "guh...saiyans..." It's just another element of Dragonball. I hate this whole "power levels are for babies" attitude that so many of you oldbies have developed.
The problem with power level is that it's all a meaningless set of number when you get down to it. Saying that "X character has "a PL of 32752733290, but Y character has a PL of 438743332" doesn't make for a very interesting discussion, and after awhile, such arguements gets bogged down in numberbabble(word ripped off from Star Trek's technobabble problem). I really don't see why so many find such jibba-jabba so debate-worthy.

The power level thing was used early on in DBZ because it was an easy and simple way of showing the difference in characters' powers(and the numbers were much smaller and more managable). But by the Andriod Arc, the numbers just got too big and large and thus, meaningless. It's hard to comprehend how strong 184335757849867325 is suppose to be, as opposed to 432 or something like that. At that point, it's just better to say "well, he's helluva tough" than to insert some big number with no real meaning.

Which is exactly their purpose, and exactly what happened.

It's just plot device to say "X is stronger than Y" in a different way. The instant it became complicated they were removed.

Kanzenshuu

What's the deal with power levels?

What's the deal with power levels?

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