DB Fighting Games: Overall good or not quite what you want?

[Zykar]

What I'd like to discuss with this thread is, are the DB fighting games good in your opinion and why? What would make it better? What would you like to see in future DB fighters?

My DB favorite fighting games are the following:

3. Dragonball Budokai Tenkaichi 2

Great music, very faithful to the series story-wise and adds a nice touch with alternative stories. It introduced combat transformations for the tenkaichi series and combat felt more "DBesque" with highspeed pursuits improved, among other features.

It was also a good improvement graphically and I felt the developers made this game keeping the good stuff from the previous one and adding quality to the gameplay. Still that's not saying much.

The gameplay, even though better, is still unintuitive with the controls feeling a bit weird and with some lack of depth combat-wise, making it kind of simple, and easy to master.

2. Dragonball Budokai 3

A huge improvement on the second of the series that made some really poor decisions on gameplay and messed up the story mode completely. This game improved graphics, animations, lighting quality, particle effects and more and better versions of Stages with some nice ring out stuff (or is it?).

Story-wise it is pretty much a faithful game with a solid story mode, having you flying around Earth and Namek with your character in search of the dragonballs and events aside from the story ones. It also has replay value in the story mode with different versions of story for the same characters.

Gameplay, and here's the tricky part, it was way better than the previous game, fast, and was it satisfying! It added teleport evasion and teleport pursuit, making you do visually spectacular fights, not to mention the addition of a series of nice brutal combat sequences in the hyper mode dragon rush.

What was bad about it? Well... It was easy to master. I mean, after 2 hours of playing I was pulling “high level” stuff by just mashing the buttons, instead of making the player master the input timing of the action, you could pretty much mash the buttons to the same effect. For the teleport pursuit? Mash circle. Teleport evasion? Mash X + direction of the attacker. Even to defend against basic attacks, the dodge was like, one of the things that was really useless to implement in a game. You had to constantly mash X to dodge the attacks, in order to take no damage from incoming attacks, because if you hold X instead of mashing you take little bits of damage, the bad side of using dodge is that when you do it you lose some energy. But I think it was so badly done, making it so easy to do, with almost no backlash.

Also, dragon rush is cool, but if you connect you have to press a different button than the other player in order to do a hit. Seriously? Leaving such a thing to chance? Anyway, I have a love-hate thing with hyper mode and dragon rush. And the ring out is great to see you punch a guy then teleport or fly to the enemy’s back and kick him so hard that when he hits the ground a huge cloud of dust is lifted up in the air. Hugely satisfying, but also stupid. Since it could happen only one time per level. It had to be on a specific part of the stage and most of the times you wouldn’t see where it could be, if you’re fighting in the air and on top of that it still dealt like 200 or 300 more damage when it happened.

Don’t get me wrong though, I enjoyed every hour of the game that I played, but that brings us to another question. Are good games the ones that you enjoy just because they are mindless button mashing gameplay with pretty colors and shiny effects? Or are they the ones that when you pull something out that it’s so hard to do and most of the people can’t, when you feel like you’ve done something awesome and I don’t mean stuff by chance, I mean stuff with skill involved in it.

1.Dragonball Z Buyuu Retsuden

I loved this game, still do. Does it have the same relatively impressive visuals of the Budokai or Budokai Tenkaichi series? Well, it’s cool, the sprites are not bad, but the animations are somewhat slow and not so fluid and could have more quality to it.

About the gameplay, I think it has one of the best gameplays in a DB game. First off you had huge stages with a little radar to know where the opponent is from your current position and it played like a regular fighting game at that time, but with some cool DB style combos and special moves and ultimate moves. Even though I find is simplistic at times, it is way harder to master than any of the following DB games, with counters to ultimate moves not being that easy to pull off (depending on the counter), some moves themselves being hard to counter with mixups making it hard to predict and time the defense.

The big, bad thing about the game? The AI, I remember winning a fight in hard difficulty, because when you beat the cpu into the ground it always countered with a low attack, making it very predictable and easy to counter. But concerning the PvP it was pretty good.

Anyway, the point being, i prefer the game with less content to the ones with tons of it, but unpolished. They may have loads of neat things, all sparkly and beautiful, but i prefer the deeper gameplay with the better feel, even if it's not that all "DBesque". Which makes me regretting not playing or even hearing about Super Dragonball Z untill a few days ago. It seems it got the right ideia when it comes to sacrificing content in the benefit of a good solid gameplay.

What do you guys think? Would love to read your opinion on the matter.

EDIT: Forgot to mention i was talking about fighting games in particular. Changed, sorry about that.

[DNA]

It's hard to select single games when they barely improve but instead add or remove features so I'll go by series and try to pinpoint the best out of there.

Butoden Series
This is a famous series of games, they were good and fairly solid, all needed work but unfortunately the series was discontinued. The best ones are Super Butoden 2 and Buyuu Retsuden. I must admit I have faint memories of them but remember having a good time. I must add that Super Butoden 3 fails for having a poor roster, too many blonde characters. Apparently Shin Butoden is quite good as well but I never played it and frankly I dislike the sprite work. The series is constructed as a traditional fighter, which means every character will be distinct from the other and the games show that work was put into them to make the characters look distinct and alive. I remember distinctly Vegeta spitting blood after being hit with a hard blast, that is something you simply do not have nowadays. This is what separates 2D animation from 3D, the liberty to do all this fun stuff. Had this series continued, I'm sure we would have great games with a big roster nowadays, like what you can see in the Street Fighter and King of Fighter series. These games have been growing for around two decades and the result is a nice big roster filled with distinct characters, because instead of trying to shove the biggest amount of characters in one game, they take their time building them and adding a few more in the next game. Again, had this series continued, we would have a nice polished game nowadays.

Budokai Series
Much loved series, every game as something to offer to separate them from the others. The best is definitely Budokai 3, although I fairly liked Infinite World too. Nice visuals but it keeps giving and taking features. Too much is left to dumb luck. Nearly every combo or attack stops the game play to open a cinematic or a Quick Time event. This completely breaks the immersion and the game feel. Maybe some people prefer it this way because it's a 'better Dragon Ball experience' but, honestly? So is watching the actual series. Why would I want a game that plays exactly like the series when I can just watch it? I want a game that feels good and gives me a new fresh experience. This series and engine actually 'devolved' into the Carddass series, culminating into Heroes, since Burst Limit kinda flopped, unfortunately. It's cool and all, but barely a game any more, just a series of prompts. Or rather, let's be just about it, it's a different kind of game that has nothing left of it's fighting game roots.

Sparking Series
Oh boy, everybody's favourite. Love or hate, there's no in between with this one. It's simply 'let's cram as much characters as we can', there's no care in to making them distinct, you can argue they have got exclusive things about them, and they do, but by no means they feel distinct. Every single character feels the same and all that changes is the model, the moves are recycled until it's not funny anymore. This is another series that 'devolved' quite a lot too. It keeps adding a losing features as well, culminating in that god awful crap that is Dragon Ball Kinetic. Never played it myself but just looking at it makes me sad. People argue that this is the true Dragon Ball Z experience, but at what cost? As pointed, every character is interchangeable because they all feel the same, the models and maps are poorly coded which results in appalling camera angles, characters fusing into the ground, clothes going through limbs and torsos and much more. They can't even walk anymore. That's right, the characters have got no walking animation and that is simply sad. Where is my iconic Cell or Broli or Super Saiyan 4 Goku slow walk? Where is my silly Mister Buu walk? C'mon game...
This series evolved into an either do or don't. Either give me a GOOD Dragon Ball Z experience or don't. Don't keep adding and removing shit and coating it in plastic (get it? Because the models look like shiny plastic).
Not to mention that there are so many complex commands that there isn't even enough buttons on the controller. It's insane and honestly? You'll never end up 'mastering' the game because there is no need to it, you can simply win by spamming.

Bukuu Series
Haven't played them personally, but from watching the game play, well... It looks good but feels soulless. Maybe I'd change my opinion by actually playing them, although the game play looks needlessly complicated. It has good story lines with plenty what-if scenarios.

Stand-Alones

Hyper Dimension
Very unique game with cool stuff like the way the supers works and the stages linking into eachother. The sprite work looks pretty fantastic too. Haven't played this one much.

Legends
Want a true Dragon Ball experience? Here it is, it's as simple and crude as it gets. I class it as a mix of awesome and awful, so awflome. The game play is repetitive AS SHIT, all you do is mash until the bar fills up and the game cuts to a cinematic. The graphics are pretty bad too. But was the game fun? You bet it was. It has an extensive roster too and throughout story mode. But every single character plays exactly the same with no distinct features apart from the cinematic final move.

Final Bout
First try into the 3D world. Awful, awful game play. I don't even want to talk much about it. The only good things were the soundtrack and the opening cinematic, but those things don't make a good game.

Super Dragon Ball Z
SOLID game. When I first got it I disliked it, but now, years later, I picked it up again after growing a bit as a person and as a gamer and I'm loving it. I feel like punching my younger self for disliking this game. This is everything a true Dragon Ball fighting game should be. The characters feel unique and have many hidden features to find and unlock. It needed a few improvements in my opinion, for example, the way to unlock everything is very long and boring, there should be different ways to unlock different things instead of everything being dependent on collecting the Dragon Balls. It also could really use a story mode, since it was ported directly from the arcade, it has no decent story mode at all. Everything else has to do with improving the game to the newer market like online play and HD Cel Shaded graphics. The game is very rewarding for those who take their time building a character and learning how to play as him, and if you're not happy with what you built, you can always reset the tech tree and start over. This game was doomed for not having Online play, if it did it would be a very satisfying competitive game.

Ultimate Butoden
Despite sharing the name of the Butoden series, it honestly has nothing to do with it's predecessors. It's fun but too gimmicky for my taste. Tried it but didn't play it much.

Can't talk much about the Arcade series as I've never played the games nor seen footage. Zenkai Battle Royale looks very promising but none of us have tried it yet as far as I can tell. I don't want to talk about Taiketsu.

[Sinestro]

All that I've ever wanted, I got from the Budokai and Sparking series. Here's my take:

Budokai 1: It was great seeing parts of the anime made into cgi cut-scenes, but it's lost some of it's appeal in the present.

Budokai 2: Wasn't a fan of the board game style when I first got the game, but I love it now. It remains fresh to me, and it was nice to have certain character interactions we didn't get to see in the anime or manga.

Budokai 3: The pinnacle of the series. A great story mode, and you could diverge a bit too. It paid to explore every bit of the map.



Sparking Meteor!: The first two games were decent enough, but the last one takes it over the top for me. I love the presentation of the fights, which moved closer to the original series. And I'm one of those who loves a large roster, and will play with ever single character. Also, the chance to have little What If situations still appeals to me.

[VexNet]

Dragonball Z : Burst Limit

This is probably the best fighting game engine for the Dragonball Universe thus far. Dimps have done a great job with this game.

It’s basic engine is 1vs1, which is how most Z Fighters wanted their fights in the series. It’s fighting engine is pristine and very enjoyable. It’s got a pick up and play feel but also a lot of depth behind some intricate maneuvers and combos.

I love the mid battle storyline scenes that become activated by meeting certain conditions in battle, it makes for some really interesting fighting since some give you boosts and power ups while others are just scripted lines (to make the battle more engaging).

The game only goes as far as the Cell Saga (but that’s fine for the first game on a next-gen console, unfortunately at this point in time a sequel doesn't look likely).

However, within each saga, you are given a set number of fights to complete. Each fight is related to the storyline and has it’s own dialogue before and after the battle, including story pieces that happen mid-battle.

Which in a way, re-imagines the series in these short enjoyable cut scenes, It really makes for some great watching! Not to mention the hidden two movies you can unlock throughout the game which is a music video montage of the Saiyan/Frieza Saga and the Cell Saga.

The graphics are beautifully cell shaded and has a distinctive look that appears to be straight from the series itself.

I enjoyed this game a lot and still get a lot of replay value from it with it’s online play. It’s never a dull moment when you’re acting out some of the biggest battles in the series with Goku and Frieza, or even a small time reunion battle with Yamcha and Krillin.

The only downside of the game is sometimes it’s hard to find a fight online, it would be nice if there was a lobby where you could watch somebody fight and then be next in line to fight (similar to a tournament or the lobbies like those in SFIII or Soul Calibur), and that the character list isn’t very big compared to the spike games (which I don’t enjoy because the fighting system is too slow + just doesn’t feel like how DBZ should be portrayed in battle, Dimps have done it very well). I would hope that Burst Limit 2 would venture further into the Buu Saga (and even the GT Saga, or back in time to original dragonball) to gather up a larger character number for people to play with.

Overall, engaging game play, well done story and lovely cut-scenes. It really does feel like an add-on to the series and it fits in well as the fighting game for the Dragonball Universe.

Definitely a must have in any Dragonball fan’s gaming collection.

[ShinRogafuken]

Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3/Sparking Meteor (Wii version):
- So many characters and stages to choose from, including characters and stages from the original DB that usually aren't in DBZ fighters
- Decent story mode with in-game lines and what-if scenarios
- Great explosive gameplay with some depth to it
- Faster-paced fighting than the other Spike games
- Wii motion controls were fun
- Great variety of modes to choose from besides Story Mode: Versus, World Tournament, Sim Dragon, Battle 100, Evolution Z, Online, Training, etc.
- Challenging to get 100% of unlockables

[Zykar]

I'm one of those who loves a large roster, and will play with ever single character.

I feel you on that, i also like big rosters, but when all the characters feel unique and somewhat balanced. If the play style of every single character is the same, then changing characters is just changing their appearence, because the core is the same.

Making a comparison with other more successful fighting games, like Super Street Fighter 4, the Budokai games (example) is lacking a lot in depth, while in Burst Limit you only have to mash square to make a combo in Super Street Fighter 4 it's a lot different, combos are very hard to pull, you have to time all the attacks almost perfectly to make it succeed. And there are many types of characters that are played similarly to each other, but never the same.

The types that i can remember from the top of my head are close range, long range and grapplers. In burst limit (if my memory serves me right) there's not a distinction made here, they all play the same, the combos are not the same of course, but if you mash square you get a combo on all characters. In Street Fighter 4 it's different, not to talk about the difference on the attacks.

It's not only the combos that are harder to pull, but each attack is unique to a character, not only on the effect or range, but also if it's safe to use or not, if it does good damage and so on. In the Budokai series as far as i can remember the melee combat is mashing either kick or punch or both. and the ranged combat is mashing the ki blast button or pushing it together with left or right.

I still understand that you like to play a game with many characters and each with it's own personality, but like DNA said:

Why would I want a game that plays exactly like the series when I can just watch it?

But hey, not everyone is looking for the same game type. I understand most of you when you say that your cup of tea is beating up a character with Garlic Jr. or Broly or even SSJ Bardock or any other character that has been in the series, but if they would focus on other matters first like game engine,combat depth and character types, i think the fans would enjoy it as much as a game with 200 characters or more, and it would even be enjoyable to the others that do not know the dragon ball franchise very well.

I will have to look better into Burst Limit, but i have to say i don't like the in battle events very much. Everything else seems ok, but not quite what i wanted.

[InfernalVegito]

Why I want to play a game that is like the series instead of just watching the series?
Because playing and watching are completely separate and different experiences. That argment is shallow.

[DNA]

Why I want to play a game that is like the series instead of just watching the series?
Because playing and watching are completely separate and different experiences. That argment is shallow.

Playing and watching are different when the game offers you a fresh new experience, not when it offers you the same character over and over with a different skin and tells you to mash buttons to watch them beat the snot out of each other. It's like playing with dolls but with shiny effects.

[Saiga]

It's like playing with dolls but with shiny effects.

'swrong with that?

[DNA]

It's like playing with dolls but with shiny effects.

'swrong with that?

If I want that, I'll play with dolls and use my imagination, or better yet, I'll just watch the bloody show.

[InfernalVegito]

Well, then your way to experience things or have fun is quite limited in my view.

[Saiga]

It's like playing with dolls but with shiny effects.

'swrong with that?

If I want that, I'll play with dolls and use my imagination, or better yet, I'll just watch the bloody show.

But you don't have any control over what happens in the show, and you miss out on those shiny effects.

The bottom line is, people want to be able to simulate the show with characters they control, something you can't get out of the anime or manga. The video games are a good medium for providing this.

[DNA]

Well, then your way to experience things or have fun is quite limited in my view.

Is it? I can have fun reading a book or watching a show, you're telling me I'm limited because of that. Since you disagree with me, it means you only have fun playing with shiny models on a TV, when I just said I don't need that. Who's limited now?

The video games are a good medium for providing this.

True, the video games are a good medium for that, all I'm saying is that the particular games we have for this franchise aren't good enough. Super Dragon Ball Z is a pretty darn good game and even that one has inexcusable flaws for when it came out, there were better games that used similar engines. So yeah, we keep getting mediocre games shoved down our throats every year because you lot keep buying them on the basis that they're "good enough". If you settle for mediocracy, you will never get good games. You can have fun with them, heck, I have fun with them, but I can openly admit they are mediocre games that provide short bursts of fun that end pretty quickly as soon as you realize how shallow and cheap the game really truly is.

[Saiga]

It's not like not buying them will make better games come out, so we're not hurting anything by buying the games we want and getting whatever enjoyment out of them we can.

The Tenkaichi are mediocre fighters, but excellent at capturing the feel of Dragon Ball Z. For those who care more about the latter, it's not settling for mediocrity at all.

[InfernalVegito]

I don't understand your point. If I can have fun playing these games and you don't, then I have one way more to have fun than you have. Simple.
All I tried to say is that watching the show and playing with characters based off the show in order to recreate the show are NOT the exact same experience for me. How could it ever be the same?
If it is for you then fine.

[DNA]

It's not like not buying them will make better games come out, so we're not hurting anything by buying the games we want and getting whatever enjoyment out of them we can.

Well, it will. If the sales drop, the distributors will notice something is wrong, which will go back to the developers and so on. It will show them the game is not selling and there's only two reasons for that in this franchise: either people grew tired or the games aren't good enough. Or well, people grew tired of games that aren't good enough. The only option to keep selling them is releasing better games. Now if you keep buying them yearly, you keep telling them that the games sell, so they keep releasing this yearly unfinished, unpolished games. We all know Dragon Ball is a big cash cow and it's getting a new wind yet again, so giving up on making games is not an option, they would have to revise the strategy and make better games. Do you need to buy games yearly to satisfy your hunger for enjoyment? If you do, maybe you should revise why. Maybe it's because the games aren't that enjoyable in the first place, otherwise one would keep you satisfied for longer than a year.

The Tenkaichi are mediocre fighters, but excellent at capturing the feel of Dragon Ball Z. For those who care more about the latter, it's not settling for mediocrity at all.

Excellent? Or good enough? In my opinion and view as a gamer, the Sparking series (or Tenkaichi) are not mediocre, they are very poorly designed games that are good enough at capturing the feel. Every single game feels like a prototype for the next one, and they show us that by releasing the next one a year after and it's pretty much the same thing with a new coat or new gimmick. Raging Blast 2 was the same as Raging Blast, only with a worse selection of game modes, worse graphics and a bunch of new characters thrown in. The main selling point was the special accompanying it. Meaning, at this point they know the game doesn't even sell by itself, they needed an animated special to keep us attracted to it. If you removed the special I can guarantee you the game would not have had half the sales it had.

[Saiga]

The games not selling won't encourage them to make better games, it will encourage them to make games at a lower cost, like the HD Collection or Dragon Ball Z for Kinect.

Giving construction feedback, like what Nostal is doing with his fanwishes, will.

[DNA]

Giving construction feedback, like what Nostal is doing with his fanwishes, will.

I hope you are right. I will believe that will work when I see some proof of it working.

[InfernalVegito]

If they'd implemented some of Nostal's idea we would get closer to a perfected BT3.

[Zykar]

The thing about DB games is that they are based on a very successful franchise at a world wide level, and yet they do not sell very well, so capturing the feel DB isn't enough, I believe. Of course you (and me) as fans like the DB games: all those flashy action sequences and the quick time events are very well done as a cinematic experiences. But if you forget for a moment that it is a DB game then you have almost nothing going for it.

While i do get enjoyment from the current games, i have yet to see one that could be considered competitive, or even a good fighter that could be on par with Tekken, Street Fighter or King of Fighters.

And believe me when i say, solid gameplay allows you to do pretty amazing things in its own way and i'd say even more amazing than the cinematic experiences the current DB games provide. I'd say it can even be more epic. A good exemple would be the 2004 EVO moment when Daigo (a japanese Steet Fighter player) parried a super and countered with his own super.

This is the link to that moment:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7cW2nMf1gk. Now you tell me, isn't this epic?

When a new installment of these successful fighting games come out you know people are curious about them. But what do they think when they see a new DB game? Probably "Oh great, another cash in" and don't even bother to check it out. I know it is so, i've been like that for a long time since Budokai 3 and before it. I have plenty of non-DB fans friends of mine, all of them dislike the games except Buyuu Retsuden and sometimes they power their Megadrive and play it.

Maybe i'm too ambicious for DB games and i just want what most people don't. But who are most people anyway? DB hardcore fans? Or the rest? Think about this.