Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

[Mewzard]

Ah.


Now Dabura- there's someone that can **** Superman up! Being "pure of heart" won't save him from being turned to stone.... will it?

(expects Superman to have another power that can reverse that effect)

...Do you honestly think Superman would let a demon spit on him? He's fast enough to dodge. Hell, he's fast enough to use his Super Breath to blow it right back in his face before it even clears a few inches.

[Saiga]

Why would Superman know what it does, though?

[Bussani]

Why would Superman know what it does, though?

Wouldn't he just dodge because it's gross? I mean, who's going to get spit on if they can help it?

But yeah, if he got hit, he'd probably be screwed. Unless it hit him on the cape or something and he removed it in time, similar to Gohan with his glove.

[Saiga]

Why would Superman know what it does, though?

Wouldn't he just dodge because it's gross? I mean, who's going to get spit on if they can help it?

Yeah, but, I think he'd be more focused on the battle to care about the spit.

[CaBrPi]

In an actual battle, yeah. Supes would be too concerned with not letting Dabura destroy things.

I also think Boo would beat Superman because of the candy beam.

[Puto]

Wouldn't Superman be able to pull a Vegetto and fight as a candy?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Wouldn't Superman be able to pull a Vegetto and fight as a candy?

Probably not. Vegetto was only able to fight back because of Ki. Superman doesn't have that. If he could somehow channel his solar power he would likely melt himself.

[Hellspawn28]

Wouldn't Superman be able to pull a Vegetto and fight as a candy?

He has Torquasm-Vo, so he might able to pull off a Vegetto.

[Mewzard]

Why would Superman know what it does, though?

Wouldn't he just dodge because it's gross? I mean, who's going to get spit on if they can help it?

Yeah, but, I think he'd be more focused on the battle to care about the spit.

He's fast enough that he could easily dodge and attack. Besides, Demons are known for using magic. It wouldn't be a surprise for a demon to try something like that. If any part of his suit was hit, he'd probably quickly heat vision it off.

As for the Candy thing, if Vegetto can do it, Superman can. His mind is something else, he's got the mental martial arts, and all that stored up solar power could be put to use (plus Superman could always get help from a magical friend or two if something like that happens).

[Bussani]

As for the Candy thing, if Vegetto can do it, Superman can. His mind is something else, he's got the mental martial arts, and all that stored up solar power could be put to use (plus Superman could always get help from a magical friend or two if something like that happens).

It's hard to say, but I wouldn't expect Superman to be able to do what Vegetto did. Vegetto's powers are based on his spirit, while Superman's are based on his physiology. While it's unusual, it makes more sense for Vegetto to be able to do things even when his body is transformed. A candy wouldn't have Kryptonian physiology or powers, and as strong as Superman's mind is, I don't think that alone is enough to animate a candy and make it fly around.

[Sunlight & City Night]

He has Torquasm-Vo, so he might able to pull off a Vegetto.

Superman is that broken he can do as he likes so yeah.
The sons of Krypton have access to a multiversal debug mode I think.

His hair can't defy gravity like Vegettos can though.

[goku the krump dancer]

I think Vegetto was able to fight as candy because he was formed through Kaio-shin magic which isn't compatible with what ever evil magic was used to create Boo. Hence why Bobidi couldn't use Supreame Kai's chi to help revive Boo and would probably explain why Vegetto defused once his skin was exposed to Boo magical insides. Which also probably means Boo couldn't absorb Vegetto even if he hadnt put the sheild up before hand...

So yea Supes is done if he gets hit by that beam.

[GS7X7]

So Goku teleports to Baba, has her bring back Dabura for a day, teleports back to Superman, gets a plan to have him get his spit to connect with Superman's skin then bam, Superman turns to stone, Goku smashes the statue to pieces then disintegrates it- Goku actually CAN kill Superman.... kinda.

[Mewzard]

So Goku teleports to Baba, has her bring back Dabura for a day, teleports back to Superman, gets a plan to have him get his spit to connect with Superman's skin then bam, Superman turns to stone, Goku smashes the statue to pieces then disintegrates it- Goku actually CAN kill Superman.... kinda.

Neither you nor Goku should count that as a win (and Goku never would). That's not Goku winning, that's Goku getting help. That would be like if Superman asked Mr. Mxyzptlk to turn Goku into a Dinosaur Egg, ran to the nearest Volcano, and tossed him in.

Goku would never stoop to tactics like that, even to save the world.

[GS7X7]

Goku's used fusion several times, against Gohan-Buu, Janemba and Omega Shenron, so it's not like he's completely unwilling to "bend the rules" a bit sometimes. Of course, then you have Kid Buu, so....

If the situation is utterly hopeless, and he's pretty sure he might die and there's no other way, he will (sometimes) try a new strategy.

Well, if Vegeta was good enough to fuse to take on the ultimate powerful bad guys in DBZ and DBGT, he's good enough for Superman.


Also, one thing I noticed in the video, if Goku did fuse (and we assume that fusion between two people of roughly equal strength makes a person 50-100X stronger, not too wild given Goten + Trunks being on par with Goku....)...

(31.07 in video)


SSJ4 Gogeta's speed becomes 250 billion km per hour, roughly 25x higher than Superman's at a puny 10 billion average. Every one minute of SSJ4 Gogeta travel would require Superman to travel 25 minutes to catch up, more than enough time even with SSJ4 Gogeta's limited fusion time and even if Goku didn't teleport.

He can also lift 16 million tons, but not a lot compared to Supes at 6.6 quintillion. (has no idea how to calculate that in tons)

He also has 3470 sextillion in durability... And again, no idea what that is compared to 9.9 octillion.


So if he went Gogeta and we were as generous as possible with the powerup there, he'd at least be faster that Superman. Hell, even a lowball estimate (20X, taking into account Vegeta is less powerful in base and a smaller percentage increase) would still put him higher.

So with Gogeta he could at least run away and escape and come up with a new plan. Plus with some of Vegeta's personality, he would be considerably more ruthless.


Huh. So maybe Goku doesn't need Dabura to kick Supes' ass, just Vegeta.


Here's hoping the next video uses the Dragon Balls to revive Goku and the earth, and has Gogeta take down Superman.

[dario03]

Goku's used fusion several times, against Gohan-Buu, Janemba and Omega Shenron, so it's not like he's completely unwilling to "bend the rules" a bit sometimes. Of course, then you have Kid Buu, so....

If the situation is utterly hopeless, and he's pretty sure he might die and there's no other way, he will (sometimes) try a new strategy.

Well, if Vegeta was good enough to fuse to take on the ultimate powerful bad guys in DBZ and DBGT, he's good enough for Superman.


Also, one thing I noticed in the video, if Goku did fuse (and we assume that fusion between two people of roughly equal strength makes a person 50-100X stronger, not too wild given Goten + Trunks being on par with Goku....)...

(31.07 in video)


SSJ4 Gogeta's speed becomes 250 billion km per hour, roughly 25x higher than Superman's at a puny 10 billion average. Every one minute of SSJ4 Gogeta travel would require Superman to travel 25 minutes to catch up, more than enough time even with SSJ4 Gogeta's limited fusion time and even if Goku didn't teleport.

He can also lift 16 million tons, but not a lot compared to Supes at 6.6 quintillion. (has no idea how to calculate that in tons)

He also has 3470 sextillion in durability... And again, no idea what that is compared to 9.9 octillion.


So if he went Gogeta and we were as generous as possible with the powerup there, he'd at least be faster that Superman. Hell, even a lowball estimate (20X, taking into account Vegeta is less powerful in base and a smaller percentage increase) would still put him higher.

So with Gogeta he could at least run away and escape and come up with a new plan. Plus with some of Vegeta's personality, he would be considerably more ruthless.


Huh. So maybe Goku doesn't need Dabura to kick Supes' ass, just Vegeta.


Here's hoping the next video uses the Dragon Balls to revive Goku and the earth, and has Gogeta take down Superman.

Man, you are just really reaching here... It doesn't matter if Goku would do it or not, its a one on one fight so he can't and doing so wouldn't mean Goku won, it would mean Goku plus others won. Besides if Goku can then so can Superman since he has done a fusion type thing with Green Lantern before or you can get really crazy and have Superman and Ultraman combine in the Superman thought robot. And even if they did do another fight that started with Gogeta vs Superman, Superman would still win and is probably still faster. All of Superman's numbers were shown with a greater than symbol meaning that he was capable of more. They just used the speed example that they did because it has a stated time and distance but you could actually argue that he is much much faster since there is evidence saying he is (examples in this thread could put him at hundreds, millions, and even trillions of times faster than light). And for comparison here are the numbers that you weren't sure of

Gogeta lift:
16,000,000 tons
Superman lift:
>6,600,000,000,000,000,000 tons
Thats like comparing the strength of a baby to the combined strength of all ~7,000,000,000 people on Earth. (seriously)

Gogeta durability:
3,470,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Superman durability:
>9,900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Ok.. I can't think of a comparison here, maybe something like trying to rip a piece of paper compared to ripping a phone book.

[GS7X7]

Wow, Supes is pretty overpowered, lol. Gogeta SSJ4 is maybe 1/2800th as durable? You're pretty good at math too. I'm just overreaching because I want Goku to have some way of winning, somehow. Goku didn't just take it like a ***** when Janemba whooped his ass, he fused with Vegeta. And if Goku got wished back somehow, he'd fuse with Vegeta again.


Well, Supes would still have to be about 25X faster than what his known minimum max speed is to outrace Gogeta.


As for tonnage.... 18,000 PL is the bare minimum power level needed to blow up earth. I don't know how many tons a character can lift there.

Maybe Gogeta can only lift 16,000,000 tons, but it seems like the power of ki attacks in the DBZ universe is a lot greater than raw physical power, assuming their earth is the same size as ours.

Is there any way to calculate the amount of tons that can be lifted at 18,000 power level, then apply it to 16,000,000 ton-lifting to determine the exact power of Gogeta's ki attack if he went with Vegeta's G-Gun? (which likely isn't even as powerful as Gogeta's full arsenal)


GS7X7 "If 18,000 is the bare minimum needed to blow up the earth, then is there anyway to calculate the "necessary power level" for a character to be able to kill Superman with an energy beam attack?"


Bussani "You could try, with enough assumptions. For instance, if 18,000 really is enough to blow up the Earth, then going by the numbers they came up with for Superman's durability, you'd need more than 450 billion times as much power to do anything significant to Superman. Assuming battle powers increase linearly with energy like this, that would require a battle power of at least... ... ...what comes after a trillion? Ah, eight quadrillion (8,000,000,000,000,000). "


It'd probably still nowhere near enough but, I'm curious how close it is.

[dario03]

I agree that a ki attack would be the best chance but I don't think you will ever be able to get a good estimate of how powerful those attacks are in comparison to power levels. Like Bussani (think it was him) was saying earlier you just can't make any numbers work. If it was linear then farmer with shotgun should be capable of destruction never before seen in the real world but that isn't the case. Also the strength seems inconsistent, Goku as a child with a power level in the tens was moving giant boulders around but as a SS4 which was far over 150,000,000 power level struggles with holding a building up. And with a power level over 400 struggled in 10x gravity but then was perfectly fine at less than 8000 but then Vegeta with a power level most likely far over a million struggled at 300x gravity. Theres just far to many assumptions and all of the assumptions could range drastically.

[GS7X7]

I agree that a ki attack would be the best chance but I don't think you will ever be able to get a good estimate of how powerful those attacks are in comparison to power levels. Like Bussani (think it was him) was saying earlier you just can't make any numbers work. If it was linear then farmer with shotgun should be capable of destruction never before seen in the real world but that isn't the case. Also the strength seems inconsistent, Goku as a child with a power level in the tens was moving giant boulders around but as a SS4 which was far over 150,000,000 power level struggles with holding a building up. And with a power level over 400 struggled in 10x gravity but then was perfectly fine at less than 8000 but then Vegeta with a power level most likely far over a million struggled at 300x gravity. Theres just far to many assumptions and all of the assumptions could range drastically.

So AT is inconsistent. Well, in cases like that, you gotta pick one average number and stick with it. It's not an ideal formula but, it's what we got. Vegeta's 18,000 is the known minimum for a tough character blowing up the earth so... let's assume that as the base formula.



Even IF Goku tried lifting the WTC which is about 500,000 tons.... I think it's 450ish?


16,000,000 / 450,000

=

35.5, rounding up just a little.... Goku "going above the call of duty"...


Then he could lift 36 WTCs stacked on top of each other.... Well, okay! SSJ4 Goku can lift a **** ton of building! He's not juggling planets but at least he earned his muscle!

I have no idea how big that building was (I don't even remember that but I only saw GT once!) but somebody struggling in a very difficult fight to lift 1/36th their max weight isn't too unreasonable. (depending on how damaged they are) I'd guess it was maybe 1/10th the size, so 1/360th but again, animes usually don't give exact formulas

As for GT, well, it is GT.



(note- a lot of the above is speculation. I wouldn't surprised if he's punched something so hard that it's exerted more force than what is necessary to lift 36 WTCs)

[Saiga]

I still think a Kienzan would be Goku's best chance of killing Superman, but it depends on whether you think it can cut anything or not.

I'm really surprised Death Battle didn't factor it into the fight at all.