Base Saiyans' PL.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

To keep it simple, I'll just say I believe the 3 Base Saiyans are stronger than #18 by a good bit by the Boo saga.

[Dabooyaka]

We don't have many implications or statements when it comes to the base saiyans, so I just follow what little evidence we have from the manga, and the Daizenshuu.
Could Freeza send Cell away like Trunks did? Could Freeza battle toe to toe with 18 like base Trunks did? Can Freeza take a punch from Super Boo like Base Trunks like he did? I can't answer yes to any of those questions, But Base Trunks can.

There is no right or wrong answer here, since the manga doesn't go into details. But I choose to take those little implications we have and follow them.

[Fox666]

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[hleV]

Could Freeza battle toe to toe with 18 like base Trunks did?

Yes, as long as #18 thinks Freeza is a human.

[Dabooyaka]

Maybe so. But I still think the base saiyans at this point could pretty much kill one-shot Freeza.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

#18 wasn't fighting seriously against Goten & Trunks, because she thought he was a human. Until they went Super Saiyan, and Trunks fired a suppressed ki blast that she considered dangerous for her (I don't think it was lethal, but it was dangerous). So, I don't believe that the kids are stronger or equals with #18 in base.

[Dabooyaka]

They don't have to be equal, or stronger than 18 in order to be stronger than Freeza though. 18 is lot stronger than Freeza though. It doesn't matter how much 18 held back because the average human power level 5, and in order for her to be holding back that much she should have to be fighting at that level.
That can't be possible because when she scored over 200 in the machine she said it was really hard to hold back that much. So no, she wasn't fighting at a level suppressed to that of regular humans.
So the fight with her counts as far as I am concerned.

[hleV]

#18 noted that Mighty Mask was not an ordinary human, take that as you will.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

#18 noted that Mighty Mask was not an ordinary human, take that as you will.

Still, I don't believe she was going all-out.

[hleV]

#18 noted that Mighty Mask was not an ordinary human, take that as you will.

Still, I don't believe she was going all-out.

... Neither do I. Just that she was using more power against Mighty Mask than she would against someone with a battle power of 5.

[Bando]

Stronger than Boo Arc Piccolo for sure.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I've never done a power level list myself, though I do believe the End of Dragon Ball Z base Saiyans to be equal to Kid Boo in power(at least Goku and Vegeta).

Well to believe that you would need to believe in exponential growth. It is possible but that would likely make characters like Cell actually capable of destroying an entire Solar System not just our systems star.

Why's that?

Well If you have Goku above Buu within 10 years you have to believe that Goku got around 400x stronger in just 10 years. That would mean that Goku can get 40x stronger in just 1 year. Naturally these guys would have to be within the trillions by the end of Z in base form.

[Rocketman]

Except Vegetto is stated to be equal to or greater than SS4 Goku.

WHERE IS YOUR EXPONENTIAL GROWTH NOW

[Fox666]

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[TheMightyOzaru]

equal to or greater

How "perhaps" turns in that kind of statement?

Well If you have Goku above Buu within 10 years you have to believe that Goku got around 400x stronger in just 10 years. That would mean that Goku can get 40x stronger in just 1 year.

Math doesn't work like that. For example, if A got 16 times stronger in 2 years, he got 4 times stronger every year, not 8.

Just in case, actually he would have got 1.82 times stronger every year so he could get increase his strength in 400 times in 10 years.

I'm well aware math works like that I just wasn't thinking very hard when I posted this comment. I have a second power level list that works with the idea the get exponentially powerful. I'll use that one if the new movie presents something along the lines of Galaxy busting but I doubt we'll see such a feat.

Except Vegetto is stated to be equal to or greater than SS4 Goku.

WHERE IS YOUR EXPONENTIAL GROWTH NOW

Where is such a thing stated? Even if it is that would just make SSJ4 ridiculously powerful since Vegetto is Goku x Vegeta.

[Mystic Gohan]

Well to believe that you would need to believe in exponential growth. It is possible but that would likely make characters like Cell actually capable of destroying an entire Solar System not just our systems star.

Why's that?

Well If you have Goku above Buu within 10 years you have to believe that Goku got around 400x stronger in just 10 years. That would mean that Goku can get 40x stronger in just 1 year. Naturally these guys would have to be within the trillions by the end of Z in base form.

Not above but on par. I don't think there are any logic in training gains, so I don't have a problem with Goku getting that strong.

[Saiga]

I agree. The base saiyans being that strong doesn't sit right with me. But I can's just ignore whats implied. Like I said in my previous post, Base Trunks sends imperfect Cell miles away with nothing more than a yell. The base boys fight on par with 18 while wearing a difficult costume. The Daizenshhu itself says that Trunks showed power on par with 18. Since he never fought her as a Super Saiyan, since he she ended the fight with a Kienzan, It's safe to say that they meant base Trunks.

The base Saiyans should be at the very least above Freeza, probably a lot stronger.

Yeah, these two points are rather difficult for me to deal with. However, Cell wasn't powered up either. It's already speculated that he has his own Super Saiyan equivalent, so maybe that's why he was pushed back so easily by base Trunks; he was in his "base" form as well. Depends on how you view Cell. Of course, Kiai could simply be completely independent of power.

As for the boys vs 18, I think this is easier to explain. They were clearly losing that battle, so I don't think that's what the Daizenshuu was referring to. However, Trunks held back his ki blast so that it wouldn't be fatal to her - and I think that's when he displayed power on par with 18. It doesn't have to be displayed through direct combat, and easily fits for those who have the boys being much weaker in base and much stronger in Super Saiyan.

[Enbi]

#18 noted that Mighty Mask was not an ordinary human, take that as you will.

Still, I don't believe she was going all-out.

She was shown to be at leisure, sure, but there's no reason to believe she held back any actual strength because that's never substantiated anywhere. The manga shows us that the base boys are a inferior to #18 by a fair amount (while restricted by the costume), not that they're a bit inferior to, say, 50% of #18. Didn't read through the whole thread so I dunno what your stance is, but yeah.

I think this implies the kids could be a bit stronger in base (prolly gonna get 9001 replies telling me not to listen to the kids 'cause they're dumb, inexperienced, etc, but):

Chapter: 453 (DBZ 259), P8.4, P9.1-7
Context: as Trunks and Goten fight No.18 in their Mighty Mask costume
Trunks: “Da-dammit! We can’t win like this!”
Goten: “Let’s turn into Super Saiyans, Trunks!”
Trunks: “That's it! We’ve got this thing on, so she won’t be able to tell who we are…Alright! Shall we turn into [Super Saiyans]?”

Notice how Trunks doesn't say "we can't win," he says "we can't win like this." One could take that to mean "we can't win in our base forms," but he doesn't seem to have going Super Saiyan in mind until Goten brings it up, which is why I take the quote to mean "we can't win in the costume."

By the Boo Saga, I'd say the base kids are somewhere in the #18 area, Base Gohan a bit higher than that, Base Goku and Vegeta well above that.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I still argue that 18 was holding back a great deal of her power for the sake of fighting a "human" in the tournament, and the boys don't know they are really out matched because she is a Jinzoningen and doesn't emit ki for them to sense. *Prefers JSAT's placement of them still being around Freeza's level*

[Saiga]

I still argue that 18 was holding back a great deal of her power for the sake of fighting a "human" in the tournament, and the boys don't know they are really out matched because she is a Jinzoningen and doesn't emit ki for them to sense. *Prefers JSAT's placement of them still being around Freeza's level*

Doesn't the JSAT have them fight without Super Saiyan, though?