How does Ultimate Gohan really compare to Ssj3 Goku?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

When did Cell do it?

And Freeza's was noted. I don't recall any power-up being noted for Super Boo. He had no reason to, anyway.

[Mystic Gohan]

When did Cell do it?

And Freeza's was noted. I don't recall any power-up being noted for Super Boo. He had no reason to, anyway.

When he first went into his perfect form, Android 16 and Vegeta both state that he is inferior to Vegeta still, but as the fight goes on, it becomes clear how superior Cell is. Almost the exact same situation.

[Undertaker]

Calling it is a "suppressed state" is a bit of a stretch, it is not different of what Goku could do as a Super Saiyan during the Cell Games.

Goku's characteristics & hair didn't change when he powered-up though. Gohan's hair changed, and his eyes stayed "locked" into the "angry eyes" look.
Thinking about it though, calling it "suppressed state" is wrong, since at the Kaioshin Realm, he looked different, but wasn't suppressed, since he had just unleashed his new power. It's more like a "non-battle state".

Why should they be different when they are the same Boo?

Because he possibly got the Kaioshin power that Pure Evil Boo had inside him. Besides, while Innocent Boo & Good Boo looked the same, but their personality & power were not the same. Good Boo didn't have any evil in him (unlike Innocent Boo), and Good Boo was much weaker than Innocent Boo.

Initial Evil Boo (false ki) ~ Base Gotenks (Post) That was Evil Boo's initial and false ki. Piccolo sensed Base Gotenks (Post) > SSjin Gotenks (Pre).

It was just a gag. Just look at the lines:

Piccolo: “He-he really is different…! He really has greatly powered up…! Th-this just might…!”

...

Piccolo: “…Th-this may be hopeless…”

Even if you take this seriously, maybe Piccolo believed that Super Saiyan Gotenks would manage to beat Boo, but got desperate when he saw Gotenks attacking in base.

I still don't see the difference between Good Boo to Mister Boo. Nothing says it's true. Nope, Evil Boo was just underestimated. If Evil Boo beating Base Gotenks (Post) contradicts his power so Goku using Kaioken X20 vs Frieza would contradict his power as well because he got beaten. Trunks said the same. Why would two statements should be ignored?

Chapter: 480 (DBZ 286), P13.2-3
Context: after Gotenks returns from fighting Boo
Gotenks: “I got the tar beaten out of me…”
Piccolo: “Alright, your fight with Majin Boo is 1 day from now! Until then, train as much as you can! If you get even a little bit stronger, it will be more effective when you perform Fusion. Got that, you miserable little punks?!”

That supports Base Gotenks (Post) > SSjin Gotenks (Pre).

[Undertaker]

He was lying when he said he could not beaten Boo but not when he said his ki was like a lie. He has no reason to say such a thing.

It's the same sentence. And Boo's power being "like a lie" helps make his lie sound more convincing.

It's like a lie because Fat Boo's power increases when he is angry. That's why he amazed Goku. Boo's power is like a lie.

TheMightyOozaru, Who said Gotenks got over 50X stronger? SSjin is 10X base when it comes to fusion IMO. Your quote means nothing because it has nothing to do with the Boo Saga.

Chapter: 480 (DBZ 286), P13.2-3
Context: after Gotenks returns from fighting Boo
Gotenks: “I got the tar beaten out of me…”
Piccolo: “Alright, your fight with Majin Boo is 1 day from now! Until then, train as much as you can! If you get even a little bit stronger, it will be more effective when you perform Fusion. Got that, you miserable little punks?!”

dbzfan7, Goku was not holding back power.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I still don't see the difference between Good Boo to Mister Boo. Nothing says it's true.

I know. This is just a theory that explains why Evil Boo reverted to Pure Boo instead on Pure Evil Boo.

If Evil Boo beating Base Gotenks (Post) contradicts his power so Goku using Kaioken X20 vs Freeza would contradict his power as well because he got beaten.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

Trunks said the same. Why would two statements should be ignored?

Trunks was just too overconfident, like Gotenks was overconfident when he went in base and thought that he would beat Innocent Boo, but returned badly beaten up.
Piccolo's statement doesn't necessarily mean that base Gotenks (post) > SS Gotenks (pre). Piccolo just saw that Gotenks had greatly powered-up, and could possibly have a chance to beat Boo. Remember, SS Gotenks (pre) also had a chance to beat Boo. Who said that base Gotenks (post) had more chances than SS Gotenks (pre) to beat Boo? No one.

Chapter: 480 (DBZ 286), P13.2-3
Context: after Gotenks returns from fighting Boo
Gotenks: “I got the tar beaten out of me…”
Piccolo: “Alright, your fight with Majin Boo is 1 day from now! Until then, train as much as you can! If you get even a little bit stronger, it will be more effective when you perform Fusion. Got that, you miserable little punks?!”

That supports Base Gotenks (Post) > SSjin Gotenks (Pre).

How the hell does this supports this? Piccolo just says that Gotenks can get more powerful, not more powerful than his Super Saiyan form.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Goku did hold-back against Majin Boo. It's pretty much stated he didn't go all-out in the battle.

And yeah, Piccolo's quote up there just means Base Gotenks with an extra day of training would be more powerful than his untrained fusion. He had no idea what Super Saiyan Gotenks was even capable of at that point.

[Saitou Hajime]

Piccolo's statement doesn't necessarily mean that base Gotenks (post) > SS Gotenks (pre). Piccolo just saw that Gotenks had greatly powered-up, and could possibly have a chance to beat Boo. Remember, SS Gotenks (pre) also had a chance to beat Boo. Who said that base Gotenks (post) had more chances than SS Gotenks (pre) to beat Boo? No one.

Piccolo said pre-RoSaT Gotenks stood no chance against Evil Boo, but was impressed by post-RoSaT Gotenks' power and thought he might have a shot.

[Fox666]

deleted

[Nazi Cola]

I'm pretty sure Boo breaking through the dimensional barrier shows that he powered up. SSjin Gotenks couldn't even dent the barrier.

And no, AT never said Goku was the strongest. Where do people get that from? That interview in one of the Daizenshuu where the interviewer says Goku is #1?

[Undertaker]

I still don't see the difference between Good Boo to Mister Boo. Nothing says it's true.

I know. This is just a theory that explains why Evil Boo reverted to Pure Boo instead on Pure Evil Boo.

If Evil Boo beating Base Gotenks (Post) contradicts his power so Goku using Kaioken X20 vs Freeza would contradict his power as well because he got beaten.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

Trunks said the same. Why would two statements should be ignored?

Trunks was just too overconfident, like Gotenks was overconfident when he went in base and thought that he would beat Innocent Boo, but returned badly beaten up.
Piccolo's statement doesn't necessarily mean that base Gotenks (post) > SS Gotenks (pre). Piccolo just saw that Gotenks had greatly powered-up, and could possibly have a chance to beat Boo. Remember, SS Gotenks (pre) also had a chance to beat Boo. Who said that base Gotenks (post) had more chances than SS Gotenks (pre) to beat Boo? No one.

Chapter: 480 (DBZ 286), P13.2-3
Context: after Gotenks returns from fighting Boo
Gotenks: “I got the tar beaten out of me…”
Piccolo: “Alright, your fight with Majin Boo is 1 day from now! Until then, train as much as you can! If you get even a little bit stronger, it will be more effective when you perform Fusion. Got that, you miserable little punks?!”

That supports Base Gotenks (Post) > SSjin Gotenks (Pre).

How the hell does this supports this? Piccolo just says that Gotenks can get more powerful, not more powerful than his Super Saiyan form.

Well, this theory doesn't really make sense. Good Boo and Mister Boo are the same and same power IMO since nothing says otherwise. Do you have him above SSjin 2 Majin Vegeta?

I am trying to say that even though Base Gotenks (Post) was beaten doesn't mean Piccolo was wrong. It's just that Evil Boo was underestimated and was too strong.

Goten never contradicted Trunks. Goten contradicted Trunks when he said SSjin 3 Gotenks > Ultimate Gohan. Trunks and Goten had already faced Boo. They were cocky in the beginning as Gotenks because they never faced him before. Piccolo never knew Gotenks can go SSjin after fusing. Base Gotenks (Post) > SSjin Gotenks (Pre) is implied. It's not surprising since Base Gotenks (Pre) is already at SSjin 2 Majin Vegeta's level. Base Gotenks (Post) would destroy Fat Boo at least. Also, your comment makes no sense. Piccolo said SSjin Gotenks (Pre) had no chance of winning but said Base Gotenks (Post) might have a chance.

It supports it because a little gain while separated is a larger one while fused. Goten and Trunks are hybrids and get stronger fast. Gohan surpassed SSjin 2 Goku after training with the Z Sword, that means he had to get at least 3X stronger because SSjin 2 Gohan (Post Z Sword) is suggestible to be able to put up a fight vs Fat Boo. Trunks and Goten trained for two weeks so they had to get at least 4X stronger while separated IMO. Take the bigger difference while fused and Base Gotenks (Post) > SSjin Gotenks (Pre) is supported.

[Undertaker]

Goku did hold-back against Majin Boo. It's pretty much stated he didn't go all-out in the battle.

And yeah, Piccolo's quote up there just means Base Gotenks with an extra day of training would be more powerful than his untrained fusion. He had no idea what Super Saiyan Gotenks was even capable of at that point.

Going all out doesn't mean holding back power. It means that he was not serious or tried hard like Raditz who didn't use any effort in his attacks vs Goku and Piccolo. Piccolo never knew Gotenks can go SSjin after fusing and he also knew what SSjin Gotenks (Pre) was capable of. He sensed his ki and saw how fast he was.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well, this theory doesn't really make sense. Good Boo and Mister Boo are the same and same power IMO since nothing says otherwise.

It does, if you understand what I'm saying.

Innocent Boo = Pure Boo + Kaioshin of the South + Dai Kaioshin

Good Boo = (Pure Boo + Kaioshin of the South + Dai Kaioshin) - majority of power

Pure Evil Boo = majority of Pure Boo's power + most of Kaioshin of the South & Dai Kaioshin power

Evil Boo = Pure Boo + Mr. Boo

Mr. Boo = Good Boo + most of Kaioshin of the South & Dai Kaioshin power that Pure Evil Boo had

Do you have him above SSjin 2 Majin Vegeta?

I'm not sure, but maybe Vegeta is stronger (I believe that the power-up from Babidi didn't wear off after his death).

I am trying to say that even though Base Gotenks (Post) was beaten doesn't mean Piccolo was wrong. It's just that Evil Boo was underestimated and was too strong.

I know what you mean. I just don't believe that training for a a week, even if it's the RoSaT, one can become strong enough to make the Fusion 50 times stronger. It's just too much.
Goten didn't contradict Trunks when he believed that they would be strong enough to beat Boo in base because Goten is stupid. He trusted Trunks because Trunks is the supposed smart guy from the two.
Piccolo was deceived by Gotenks' overconfidence. He saw a big increase in Gotenks' power, and by underestimating Boo, and overestimating Gotenks because of his confidence, he got excited & thought that Gotenks really was as strong as he thought.

[hleV]

Judging from Majin Vegeta's performance against Fat Boo, I wouldn't be surprised if SSJ2 Vegeta was actually stronger than Mr. Boo, who's only got the minority if Fat Boo's power. He's still Boo, though. With all them magic abilities and regeneration.

[SaiyanZ]

I'm in the minority when I say that both are comparable in power. I've always thought Goku's power fluctuates when he is either dead or in the after life. I would put Ultimate Gohan greatly stronger than a living SSJ3 Goku (either in orout of Earth). Hard to say how he would compare if Goku had a dead body or was in Other World.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Goku did hold-back against Majin Boo. It's pretty much stated he didn't go all-out in the battle.

And yeah, Piccolo's quote up there just means Base Gotenks with an extra day of training would be more powerful than his untrained fusion. He had no idea what Super Saiyan Gotenks was even capable of at that point.

Going all out doesn't mean holding back power. It means that he was not serious or tried hard like Raditz who didn't use any effort in his attacks vs Goku and Piccolo. Piccolo never knew Gotenks can go SSjin after fusing and he also knew what SSjin Gotenks (Pre) was capable of. He sensed his ki and saw how fast he was.

I'm not trying to imply Goku was suppressing his power or anything, but based on the fact that Piccolo wasn't sure if Super Saiyan 3 fighting all-out (you could tell he somewhat had a feeling Goku was strong enough to handle fat man, but he still wondered) would be enough to handle Boo, along with the fact that Goku later tells us he could've dusted him off if he wanted...Piccolo and the others never had a chance to see Goku put forth his most powerful attacks in the battle.

I like to look at Vegeta's battle with #18, where he was pretty much the most powerful one there, and of course, unable to suppress his power as a Super Saiyan. Once he started attacking #18 seriously, Trunks senses how powerful Vegeta truly is. Piccolo knew Super Saiyan Gotenks was powerful and fast, but he still didn't see him fight.

I don't think the true depths of their powers can be sensed through the transformation (or fusion) alone. When they actually fight seriously, there's a better understanding of their (whoever it is) colossal power. Piccolo didn't realize Super Gotenks was on Super Boo's level until he saw how pissed Boo was after eating those Chain Missiles--and even then, Super Gotenks showed he was capable of overwhelming Super Boo once he decided to stop playing around.

The same is shown with Gohan once he arrives on earth to fight Super Boo as well; Piccolo senses his powerful Chi, thinks he could potentially be a new enemy they'll have to fight--and then wonders why he's even considering fighting Super Boo alone. Of course, once Gohan revvs-up and kicks Super Boo's ass, it's clear he's far above him. When they transform, fuse, or acquire a significant power-up, it's very noticeable--but nowhere near as much as it is when they're fighting all-out.

[Nazi Cola]

I'm in the minority when I say that both are comparable in power. I've always thought Goku's power fluctuates when he is either dead or in the after life. I would put Ultimate Gohan greatly stronger than a living SSJ3 Goku (either in orout of Earth). Hard to say how he would compare if Goku had a dead body or was in Other World.

Goku's power doesn't change whether he's alive or dead; that was never the problem. The problem was his ability to keep full power in Super Saiyan 3, which Other World was ideal for because it apparently had little drain on his body there.

[Bando]

And no, AT never said Goku was the strongest. Where do people get that from? That interview in one of the Daizenshuu where the interviewer says Goku is #1?

What about this?

What’s the secret of winning in battle?

"When it comes to battle, the most important thing is ki size, and its control. Of course, “ki” also includes such spiritual power as energy/vigor [genki] and bravery [yuuki], and being in one’s right mind [shouki; could also be translated as "true character"] (note 11). There’s a limit to physical strength, no matter how much you toughen it up, and the only way to overcome that it is with “ki”. I think that it was through turning ki into formidable power that Goku drew closer to being the strongest warrior in the universe."

Anyway, Gohan's at least a few dozen times stronger than Goku. Maybe hundreds.

[Bussani]

Good Boo and Mister Boo are the same and same power IMO since nothing says otherwise.

What about what the narrator said when Buu expelled all his evil?

Chapter: 485 (DBZ 291), P7.4
Context: as the two Boos fight
Narrator: “The original Majin Boo had no chance of winning...This was because during the split, the majority of the power went to the evil one…"

By the way, you don't have to post twice in a row all the time. You can just edit your previous post if you really have to.

And no, AT never said Goku was the strongest. Where do people get that from? That interview in one of the Daizenshuu where the interviewer says Goku is #1?

What about this?

What’s the secret of winning in battle?

"When it comes to battle, the most important thing is ki size, and its control. Of course, “ki” also includes such spiritual power as energy/vigor [genki] and bravery [yuuki], and being in one’s right mind [shouki; could also be translated as "true character"] (note 11). There’s a limit to physical strength, no matter how much you toughen it up, and the only way to overcome that it is with “ki”. I think that it was through turning ki into formidable power that Goku drew closer to being the strongest warrior in the universe."

Technically, that doesn't say that Goku became the strongest warrior in the universe. It only says that he drew closer to it.

[SaiyanZ]

I'm in the minority when I say that both are comparable in power. I've always thought Goku's power fluctuates when he is either dead or in the after life. I would put Ultimate Gohan greatly stronger than a living SSJ3 Goku (either in orout of Earth). Hard to say how he would compare if Goku had a dead body or was in Other World.

Goku's power doesn't change whether he's alive or dead; that was never the problem. The problem was his ability to keep full power in Super Saiyan 3, which Other World was ideal for because it apparently had little drain on his body there.

The strain seems too great for me to think that his power doesn't change. Not that I disagree with you about him holding that level of power

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The strain of SS3 appears in the last seconds. Goku didn't notice any strain in his body, until suddenly he slowed down gathering ki, then the ki suddenly started to drop, until he suddenly turned into base, and he wasn't even able to transform into a Super Saiyan (Full Power).