How does Ultimate Gohan really compare to Ssj3 Goku?

[SSJFinny]

It might be filler in the anime but goku mentions something to vegeta during the fight with pure boo that your dead body is more durable.

[SaiyanZ]

The strain of SS3 appears in the last seconds. Goku didn't notice any strain in his body, until suddenly he slowed down gathering ki, then the ki suddenly started to drop, until he suddenly turned into base, and he wasn't even able to transform into a Super Saiyan (Full Power).

This is true, but I'm also referencing his exhaustion after his fight with Fat Buu and his conversation with Piccolo on Kami's Lookout.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The strain of SS3 appears in the last seconds. Goku didn't notice any strain in his body, until suddenly he slowed down gathering ki, then the ki suddenly started to drop, until he suddenly turned into base, and he wasn't even able to transform into a Super Saiyan (Full Power).

This is true, but I'm also referencing his exhaustion after his fight with Fat Buu and his conversation with Piccolo on Kami's Lookout.

This was because his time was limited in the Living World, and Super Saiyan 3 drained a lot of his time.

[Victorious]

Even going by "official" multipliers for SSj2 and SSJ3, and I am in complete disagreement with SSJ2's rinky dink 2x SSJ2 multiplier Ultimate Gohan is still gonna come out hundreds if not a thousand time stronger than Goku if we take the power statements for real.

Goku says the fusion of the boys will be stronger than him.

SSJ Gotenks > SSj3 Goku

Piccolo says that initial Super Buu will destory SSj Gotenks, tells the boys to get back in the RoSaT

Piccolo knows the boys have trained for a week and still thinks it's gonna take a miracle for Gotenks to beat Super Buu

Piccolo sees Gotenks fight Super Buu in base, thinks Gotenks is stuck in base, then he is amazed at how powerful Gotenks has become, claims Gotenks might have a chance. This puts base Gotenks far above pre RoSaT SSJ Gotenks, 2x gap should be minimum here since Piccolo thought it would take a mircile for the kids to beat Super Buu even with a week of RoSaT training. Piccolo then of course retracts that comment with a hopless look but that just means base Gotenks is around Super Buu's sensible ki and Super Buu's real ki is far higher. He didnt have that look until base Gotenks got tanked

We learn Super Buu can almost match SSJ3 Gotenks.

So we end up with something like

SSj3 Goku : 1
SSJ Gotenks pre RoSaT : 1.25
base Gotenks post RoSaT : 2.50
SSJ Gotenks post RoSaT : 125
SSj2 Goteks post RoSaT : 250
SSj3 Gotenks post RoSaT : 1,000
Ultimate Gohan : 1,500

[Saitou Hajime]

Even going by "official" multipliers for SSj2 and SSJ3, and I am in complete disagreement with SSJ2's rinky dink 2x SSJ2 multiplier Ultimate Gohan is still gonna come out hundreds if not a thousand time stronger than Goku if we take the power statements for real.

Goku says the fusion of the boys will be stronger than him.

SSJ Gotenks > SSj3 Goku

Piccolo says that initial Super Buu will destory SSj Gotenks, tells the boys to get back in the RoSaT

Piccolo knows the boys have trained for a week and still thinks it's gonna take a miracle for Gotenks to beat Super Buu

Piccolo sees Gotenks fight Super Buu in base, thinks Gotenks is stuck in base, then he is amazed at how powerful Gotenks has become, claims Gotenks might have a chance. This puts base Gotenks far above pre RoSaT SSJ Gotenks, 2x gap should be minimum here since Piccolo thought it would take a mircile for the kids to beat Super Buu even with a week of RoSaT training. Piccolo then of course retracts that comment with a hopless look but that just means base Gotenks is around Super Buu's sensible ki and Super Buu's real ki is far higher. He didnt have that look until base Gotenks got tanked

We learn Super Buu can almost match SSJ3 Gotenks.

So we end up with something like

SSj3 Goku : 1
SSJ Gotenks pre RoSaT : 1.25
base Gotenks post RoSaT : 2.50
SSJ Gotenks post RoSaT : 125
SSj2 Goteks post RoSaT : 250
SSj3 Gotenks post RoSaT : 1,000
Ultimate Gohan : 1,500

Isn't it possible Piccolo was comparing the strengths of Gotenks' pre and post RoSaT base forms when he said that he had powered up a lot, since he was operating under the assumption that he couldn't turn SSJ after fusing?

[Victorious]

Even going by "official" multipliers for SSj2 and SSJ3, and I am in complete disagreement with SSJ2's rinky dink 2x SSJ2 multiplier Ultimate Gohan is still gonna come out hundreds if not a thousand time stronger than Goku if we take the power statements for real.

Goku says the fusion of the boys will be stronger than him.

SSJ Gotenks > SSj3 Goku

Piccolo says that initial Super Buu will destory SSj Gotenks, tells the boys to get back in the RoSaT

Piccolo knows the boys have trained for a week and still thinks it's gonna take a miracle for Gotenks to beat Super Buu

Piccolo sees Gotenks fight Super Buu in base, thinks Gotenks is stuck in base, then he is amazed at how powerful Gotenks has become, claims Gotenks might have a chance. This puts base Gotenks far above pre RoSaT SSJ Gotenks, 2x gap should be minimum here since Piccolo thought it would take a mircile for the kids to beat Super Buu even with a week of RoSaT training. Piccolo then of course retracts that comment with a hopless look but that just means base Gotenks is around Super Buu's sensible ki and Super Buu's real ki is far higher. He didnt have that look until base Gotenks got tanked

We learn Super Buu can almost match SSJ3 Gotenks.

So we end up with something like

SSj3 Goku : 1
SSJ Gotenks pre RoSaT : 1.25
base Gotenks post RoSaT : 2.50
SSJ Gotenks post RoSaT : 125
SSj2 Goteks post RoSaT : 250
SSj3 Gotenks post RoSaT : 1,000
Ultimate Gohan : 1,500

Isn't it possible Piccolo was comparing the strengths of Gotenks' pre and post RoSaT base forms when he said that he had powered up a lot, since he was operating under the assumption that he couldn't turn SSJ after fusing?

I dunno, but doesnt really affect base post > SSJ pre. That just means Gotenks post >>> Gotenks pre.

How we get base post >>> SSJ pre is Piccolo stating several times that initial Super Buu would absolutely kill pre RoSaT Gotenks, then aftering seeing base Gotenks power up in the RoSaT Piccolo thought for a second Gotenks had a chance of winning. We know already Piccolo absolutely did not think SSJ Gotenks pre had a chance in hell.

[SaiyanZ]

The strain of SS3 appears in the last seconds. Goku didn't notice any strain in his body, until suddenly he slowed down gathering ki, then the ki suddenly started to drop, until he suddenly turned into base, and he wasn't even able to transform into a Super Saiyan (Full Power).

This is true, but I'm also referencing his exhaustion after his fight with Fat Buu and his conversation with Piccolo on Kami's Lookout.

This was because his time was limited in the Living World, and Super Saiyan 3 drained a lot of his time.

Was it ever specifically stated that the amount of time left was what left him profusely sweating after the fight? He did tell Piccolo that it took a lot of energy to use the form in the living world; Thats what I use to determine his tired state

[Bussani]

Was it ever specifically stated that the amount of time left was what left him profusely sweating after the fight?

Not...exactly? He tells Piccolo that when you're in the living world, "where time exists," it uses up too much energy and you get exhausted all at once. He also says that his exhaustion can't be cured by anything except for returning to the afterlife, however, and both he and Kaio make it clear that using the form on Earth would use up the time he had left. So it's not specific, and it may also be the other way around (i.e. exhausting himself used up his time, rather than using up his time exhausted him), but the two things are definitely tied together.

[SaiyanZ]

Was it ever specifically stated that the amount of time left was what left him profusely sweating after the fight?

Not...exactly? He tells Piccolo that when you're in the living world, "where time exists," it uses up too much energy and you get exhausted all at once. He also says that his exhaustion can't be cured by anything except for returning to the afterlife, however, and both he and Kaio make it clear that using the form on Earth would use up the time he had left. So it's not specific, and it may also be the other way around (i.e. exhausting himself used up his time, rather than using up his time exhausted him), but the two things are definitely tied together.

I guess that would go hand in hand with Gotenks existing as a SSJ3 for 5 minutes then. Seems like life force is attached to the form more-so in this form than others. But then, that would mean his ki would be as well, since we've seen Majin Vegeta die after exhausting all his ki. So I guess for this form, time = life force = ki,at least on a mortal plane huh?

[Nazi Cola]

The living body Goku was using was a borrowed one. So unlike the afterlife, his life energy is limited by that vessel's capacity, which was one day.

Super Saiyan 3 is basically shown to be a double-edged sword; as a consequence of drawing their Saiyan power to its absolute limit, it in effect uses their life energy, thereby shortening their life; similar to such abilities as the Mafuuba and Kikoho.

I like that.^

[zSuper Vegetaz]

Well goku forced kid buu(resurfaced form) to heal/regenerate... he's clearly stronger,even after fighting super buu with no break between the fights. Gohan can't be beyound kid buu,because his addition to the Genki Dama wasn't enough to kill kid buu,even though others were added to his power addition to the spirit bomb. so goku ss3>kidbuu>gohan+goten+trunks+piccolo>gohan. Goku>gohan,I could add vegito beating buu,but that'd bring up the whole potara does or does not multiply power silly arguement. And it's getting tiresome.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

The Genki dama is only made with Genki, not all ki. Toriyama said in the SEG that ki is made up of genki ( vitality), yuuki (bravery) and shouki (being in your right mind). Can't remember if he said any more than that.

[Darkprince410]

Well goku forced kid buu(resurfaced form) to heal/regenerate... he's clearly stronger,even after fighting super buu with no break between the fights. Gohan can't be beyound kid buu,because his addition to the Genki Dama wasn't enough to kill kid buu,even though others were added to his power addition to the spirit bomb. so goku ss3>kidbuu>gohan+goten+trunks+piccolo>gohan. Goku>gohan,I could add vegito beating buu,but that'd bring up the whole potara does or does not multiply power silly arguement. And it's getting tiresome.

Goku never actually fought Evil Buu at any point. The episodes in the anime where he fought Evil Buu (with Gotenks absorbed, with Gohan absorbed, and then within his body) are all filler. Every time Buu was going to attack him initially, something happened that prevented him from doing so. With Gotenks Buu, the fusion wore right at the initial charge, so he de-fused before he even threw the first punch. With Gohan Buu, Vegeta relented to fusing with Goku near instantly, and they formed Vegetto before Buu even reached them. Lastly, with Buu inside his own body, they removed Mr. Buu's cocoon very soon after finding it. When Goku fought Pure Buu, he was basically fresh, having exerted next to no energy of his own prior to the fight.

As for Gohan's ki not being enough to destroy Pure Buu from the Genki Dama, as it was mentioned, the Genki Dama takes a person's genki, which is just a portion of their entire ki make up (there are three types of -ki that make up ki as a whole according to Toriyama). So Gohan's genki not being enough to destroy Pure Buu doesn't mean anything because the genki is only a fraction of his full ki.

[dbzfan7]

Also add in that Gohan wasn't at full power when being brought back to life just like Vegeta. Even if you did count he was at full power and the Genki-Dama worked as simply as donating all your ki, then why didn't the boys fuse into SSJ3 Gotenks (wouldn't that make a lot of sense if ki/genki conversion was so simple).

[Nazi Cola]

The theory that Kid Boo > Gohan because the Genki-Dama apparently wasn't enough to kill him is cooky. Gohan obviously didn't give all of his energy. That or that whole group had the Idiot Ball because the kids didn't bother going Super Saiyan or fusing into Gotenks, Piccolo didn't think of that as an option, and neither did Gohan.

Pick which turd you'd like to polish if you think that's actually evidence for Kid Boo's power.