Buff Boo

[Fox666]

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[Darkprince410]

I don't think the last part is true, just because he said "numerous tried" doesn't mean that there are some who didn't, it's well possible all of them tried.

I don't know. Him specifically saying numerous tried at least somewhat implies to me that there were some that didn't. If all had tried, why wouldn't he just say that all had? In any case though, the fact remains that his words leave it open that South may not have tried.

[Undertaker]

What leads you to believe South Kaioshin is only as strong as Mastered Super Saiyan Cell Games-era Gohan?

He is way weaker than that because he failed to release the Z Sword.

As mentioned by myself and others in this topic, it wasn't stated that he ever tried to pull out the Z Sword.

Chapter: 471 (DBZ 277), P10.2-4
Kaioshin: “I want Gohan to use the Z Sword to defeat Majin Boo. Knowing him, he should definitely be able to use it.”
Kibito: “A-are you serious, Lord Kaioshin…?!! There’s no way that some human would be able to use the Z Sword!! That legendary sword which not merely myself, but numerous Kaioshins were utterly unable to handle…”
Kaioshin: “You were dead, Kibito, so you didn’t get to see Gohan here’s unbelievably tremendous power.”

All that implies is that many Kaioushin had tried removing it, but every one of them that had tried had failed. It doesn't say that every single one of them has tried to pull it out (and in fact the wording suggests that there are some that haven't).

Kaioshin was amazed at the Saiyans's power and FPSSjin Gohan should be stronger than any Kaioshin. It doesn't make sense that Kaioshin would be so shocked if Southren Kaioshin was stronger than the Saiyans. Plus, Southren Kaioshin was mentioned as one of the KAIOSHINS WHO CAN BEAT FRIEZA WITH ONE BLOW WHICH IMPLIES HE TRIED TO USE THE SWORD AS WELL AND THAT HE IS JUST STRONGER THAN FRIEZA.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Why is Kid Boo's influence superior over South Kaioshin, but not Dai Kaioshin?

Eastern Kaioshin explained that Daikaioshins jolly and peaceful nature changed Buu. Buu's personality and power changed when absorbed Daikaioshin because his goodness was too much for Kid Buu to handle. Southern Kaioshin wasn't as good. You could also say that Southern Kaioshin hindered his ability resist the influence of the Kais.

You think South Kaioshin wouldn't be good? I doubt the protectors of the universe would even have an ounce of evil in them.

Southern Kaioshin isn't AS good as Daikaio. If you notice, Eastern Kaioshin regards Daikaioshin as a more pure and innocent character. He is also the leader of the Kai's so I would imagine he is more pure than the others. Also like I said, Southern Kaioshin could have hindered Buu's ability to resist Kaioshin influence.

[hleV]

Kaioshin was amazed at the Saiyans's power and FPSSjin Gohan should be stronger than any Kaioshin. It doesn't make sense that Kaioshin would be so shocked if Southren Kaioshin was stronger than the Saiyans.

It doesn't make sense for a Kaioshin to be shocked due to the fact that beings from the lower world had surpassed Kaioshin?

Plus, Southren Kaioshin was mentioned as one of the KAIOSHINS WHO CAN BEAT Freeza WITH ONE BLOW WHICH IMPLIES HE TRIED TO USE THE SWORD AS WELL

What? How does that imply anything?

AND THAT HE IS JUST STRONGER THAN Freeza.

They're all stronger than him. Kaioshin just mentioned that they're much stronger than Freeza because Freeza was the strongest being in the lower world that the Kaioshin at the time knew of.

[Bando]

It's pretty obvious the Z-Sword was used to gauge the Kaioshins' strength. Gohan is stronger than South Kaioshin...

Anyway, since when has absorption ever been strictly addition? Cell absorbed humans and became extremely powerful but I doubt he absorbed hundreds of millions of people in only a couple days. And when he absorbs #17 and #18, his transformations aren't exactly additions.

[hleV]

It's pretty obvious the Z-Sword was used to gauge the Kaioshins' strength. Gohan is stronger than South Kaioshin...

Perhaps to gauge the power of the Kaioshin that were at that time alive, which makes Eastern Kaioshin only. I don't see why would the Southern Kaioshin be gauged as well, because he's not really relevant to the very story nor implied to have ever tried to pull out the Z-Sword. The only thing that can be used to gauge the Kaioshin overally is the Elder Kaioshin's claim that the new generation of Kaioshin is "stupid" (for not knowing about Potara's ability of fusion).

Anyway, since when has absorption ever been strictly addition? Cell absorbed humans and became extremely powerful but I doubt he absorbed hundreds of millions of people in only a couple days. And when he absorbs #17 and #18, his transformations aren't exactly additions.

#17 & #18 were essential for Cell's evolution to happen. Just like we eat and drink to have energy. We don't add the food and drinks' "power" to our own, we use the received energy to pull off things we otherwise couldn't.

Boo, on the other hand, "fuses" with his absorbees, receiving some of their traits, and can obviously use their power along with his own. He also gets their knowledge/intelligence, but he doesn't magically become more intelligent than the combination of him and his absorbees, so I don't see a reason to assume that his power does neither. Pure Evil Boo eating Mr. Boo is an exception, obviously, as a "real", obvious transformation took part.

[Darkprince410]

Kaioshin was amazed at the Saiyans's power and FPSSjin Gohan should be stronger than any Kaioshin. It doesn't make sense that Kaioshin would be so shocked if Southren Kaioshin was stronger than the Saiyans. Plus, Southren Kaioshin was mentioned as one of the KAIOSHINS WHO CAN BEAT Freeza WITH ONE BLOW WHICH IMPLIES HE TRIED TO USE THE SWORD AS WELL AND THAT HE IS JUST STRONGER THAN Freeza.

He was amazed by the Saiya-jins power because he was bewildered by the fact of "lesser" beings (those existing in the mortal plane) being so strong.

Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P1.4-5
Context: after Goku kills Yakon
Kaioshin: “S-so that’s why these 3 have such composure...In a pinch, they can put forth tremendous power, like Son Goku displayed momentarily…Wh…what a completely unbelievable fact…that I, Kaioshin, should be thrown into a panic by humans of the lower world…”

Like everyone else, I don't see how Kaioushin comparing him and his fellow Kaioushin of that generation to Freeza automatically bunches him up with the same group of Kaioushin that had tried to remove the Z Sword in the past. There have been 16 generations of Kaioushin since the Z Sword's creation, which leaves plenty of time for there to have been others to have tried in that interim (enough to constitute "numerious"), and since there's nothing expressly said that points that South was one to attempt it, we can't automatically assume that he did.

[Gokuden]

When Buu absorbs good, it only makes him weaker, IIRC.

[Darkprince410]

When Buu absorbs good, it only makes him weaker, IIRC.

The only statement regarding that is very vague, since the original Japanese line doesn't specify whether it was just the one absorption (Dai Kaioushin) or plural (both Kaioushin) that made him weaker.

[Gokuden]

When Buu absorbs good, it only makes him weaker, IIRC.

The only statement regarding that is very vague, since the original Japanese line doesn't specify whether it was just the one absorption (Dai Kaioushin) or plural (both Kaioushin) that made him weaker.

I guess we'll never know until we ask Ooishi Naho.

[Mystic Gohan]

Eastern Kaioshin explained that Daikaioshins jolly and peaceful nature changed Buu. Buu's personality and power changed when absorbed Daikaioshin because his goodness was too much for Kid Buu to handle. Southern Kaioshin wasn't as good. You could also say that Southern Kaioshin hindered his ability resist the influence of the Kais.

You think South Kaioshin wouldn't be good? I doubt the protectors of the universe would even have an ounce of evil in them.

Southern Kaioshin isn't AS good as Daikaio. If you notice, Eastern Kaioshin regards Daikaioshin as a more pure and innocent character. He is also the leader of the Kai's so I would imagine he is more pure than the others. Also like I said, Southern Kaioshin could have hindered Buu's ability to resist Kaioshin influence.

They are both pure, but one is not as pure?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Southern Kaioshin isn't AS good as Daikaio. If you notice, Eastern Kaioshin regards Daikaioshin as a more pure and innocent character. He is also the leader of the Kai's so I would imagine he is more pure than the others. Also like I said, Southern Kaioshin could have hindered Buu's ability to resist Kaioshin influence.

They are both pure, but one is not as pure?

Who is to say whether Southern Kaioshin is pure to begin with? Look at Rou Kaioshin, his lust for women is impure according to the Kintoun. Daikaioshin is made out to be innocent and pure. Nothing of the sort is said about Southern Kaioshin or any of the Kaioshin for that matter.

[Darkprince410]

Southern Kaioshin isn't AS good as Daikaio. If you notice, Eastern Kaioshin regards Daikaioshin as a more pure and innocent character. He is also the leader of the Kai's so I would imagine he is more pure than the others. Also like I said, Southern Kaioshin could have hindered Buu's ability to resist Kaioshin influence.

They are both pure, but one is not as pure?

Who is to say whether Southern Kaioshin is pure to begin with? Look at Rou Kaioshin, his lust for women is impure according to the Kintoun. Daikaioshin is made out to be innocent and pure. Nothing of the sort is said about Southern Kaioshin or any of the Kaioshin for that matter.

That impurity could be based in part on corruption of having fused with the witch though, not necessarily his original purity. We know practically nothing about Rou Kaioushin's nature before he fused with the witch, so his nature could have been far less lecherous.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

What we do know is this:

1) Boo absorbed SK and his evil was still intact
2) Boo absorbed Dai Kaioshin and his evil was reduced

Not saying SK isn't pure, but it's clear the absorption had no good effect on Boo's soul, unlike Dai Kaioshin. All it did was increase his power and make him more physically menacing than he ever was.

[Mystic Gohan]

Southern Kaioshin isn't AS good as Daikaio. If you notice, Eastern Kaioshin regards Daikaioshin as a more pure and innocent character. He is also the leader of the Kai's so I would imagine he is more pure than the others. Also like I said, Southern Kaioshin could have hindered Buu's ability to resist Kaioshin influence.

They are both pure, but one is not as pure?

Who is to say whether Southern Kaioshin is pure to begin with? Look at Rou Kaioshin, his lust for women is impure according to the Kintoun. Daikaioshin is made out to be innocent and pure. Nothing of the sort is said about Southern Kaioshin or any of the Kaioshin for that matter.

The protectors of the universe having even an ounce of evil would defeat the purpose no?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Who is to say whether Southern Kaioshin is pure to begin with? Look at Rou Kaioshin, his lust for women is impure according to the Kintoun. Daikaioshin is made out to be innocent and pure. Nothing of the sort is said about Southern Kaioshin or any of the Kaioshin for that matter.

The protectors of the universe having even an ounce of evil would defeat the purpose no?

No not really. You don't have to be absolutely pure to be overseers/protectors of the universe.

[Bussani]

Maybe it's more about personality and nature than whether someone's pure or not pure. I mean, they never said it was anything to do with purity--they said it was because Dai Kaioshin was "kind and gentle", as opposed to South Kaioshin's description of "strong and burly". Buu takes on traits from the people he absorbs, after all, so it wouldn't be weird if a strong and burly guy powered him up while a kind and gentle guy mellowed him out.

[Bando]

Perhaps to gauge the power of the Kaioshin that were at that time alive, which makes Eastern Kaioshin only. I don't see why would the Southern Kaioshin be gauged as well, because he's not really relevant to the very story nor implied to have ever tried to pull out the Z-Sword. The only thing that can be used to gauge the Kaioshin overally is the Elder Kaioshin's claim that the new generation of Kaioshin is "stupid" (for not knowing about Potara's ability of fusion).

It was used to gauge the strength of all previous Kaioshins. Sure there always exists the possibility that South Kaioshin didn't attempt to pull it but I doubt that's what the story is trying to tell us.

The act of pulling out the Z Sword was to show us the Z Senshi had surpassed the Kaioshins.

#17 & #18 were essential for Cell's evolution to happen. Just like we eat and drink to have energy. We don't add the food and drinks' "power" to our own, we use the received energy to pull off things we otherwise couldn't.

Boo, on the other hand, "fuses" with his absorbees, receiving some of their traits, and can obviously use their power along with his own. He also gets their knowledge/intelligence, but he doesn't magically become more intelligent than the combination of him and his absorbees, so I don't see a reason to assume that his power does neither. Pure Evil Boo eating Mr. Boo is an exception, obviously, as a "real", obvious transformation took part.

I am aware of the differences in-between their fusions/transformations. It just doesn't change the fact that these combinations aren't pure addition. Cell absorbing a couple thousand humans is probably the best example.

[Fox666]

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