The American Dub Replacement Score Purpose

[cRookie_Monster]

Most people I know don't go searching for DBZ stuff on the web, young or old. I was the only one at the studio who did DBZ web searches for instance. Well except for Ben, who was a classic hardcore DBZ fan...he had watched the whole thing in Japanese before hand on crappy VHS copies ordered from various places, and real player files^^

Whatever the reason, most people didn't know. Even on the forums and irc channels back then I used to see a lot of speculation about what was going to happen next...and those people WERE on the web, they just didn't search deep enough. They thought Funimation was still actively making new episodes, animation and all! I can remember threads not that long ago on the Funimation forums where people were wondering why there were no new shows..and we had to patiently explain that DB/DBZ/DBGT ended 10+ years ago in Japan.
Or the people complaining to Funimation about plot issues...that had nothing to do with translations or editing.
It's definitely possible, I've had to explain that it's Japanese to a LOT of people. Now here...yeah, this is definitely a bunch of hardcore fans who know everything. Not only that but there's a lot more easy access info now than was available back then. So I agree, if you put out some moderate effort you can find out everything. PlanetNamek.com was pretty easy to stumble on...most people just didn't do it unless they were pretty hardcore.

[linkdude20002001]

Well, nowadays it's not so big as far as I know. Back when I was little, though, all my friends new it was Japanese. It was just common knowledge. So I assumed it was the same around the country.

[kei17]

Gozar just brought up a good point over in a different thread:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 16#p591072

Basically there was a time when it seemed *noone* knew that DBZ was a Japanese cartoon in the first place. Even today I sometimes have trouble explaining where the show came from.

Again, reasons being right or wrong....just trying to answer the question.

Says a man whose score helped conceal the fact that DBZ is a Japanese show.

[cRookie_Monster]

Gozar just brought up a good point over in a different thread:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 16#p591072

Basically there was a time when it seemed *noone* knew that DBZ was a Japanese cartoon in the first place. Even today I sometimes have trouble explaining where the show came from.

Again, reasons being right or wrong....just trying to answer the question.

Says a man whose score helped conceal the fact that DBZ is a Japanese show.

You're right, when Bruce mentioned DBZ at the interview...I should have not only gone out and rented the movies but I should have researched where it came from and realized that there would be a hoard of fans of the original version of this foreign show. Then I should have looked up the original score which was very hard to get a hold of in those days, and realized it was completely different from what I was being asked to write. Never mind that I only had a few days to write targeted demo material after learning what the gig was.... I should have been mortally offended and refused the only composer job opening I could find and looked for work as a programmer instead, even though I had just completed my music degree and spent thousands of dollars on gear to be able to make a decent demo to break into the industry.

[penguintruth]

Don't blame cRookie_Monster. It was Funimation's fault for even allowing a replacement score. Hell, it might even be partially Toei's fault for not caring enough what Funimation did with its product, though Funimation should still have known better.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I find it kind of sad that it's even THAT big of an offensive point for people anymore. I mean, really? The score, regardless of how you feel about it, if you love it or if you loathe it - is a product of a bygone time. One that you don't even have to hear anymore if you don't wish to. The Japanese version is on the disc, ripe for the taking, and if you want the dub but still hate the score FUNi made, then there's now that nifty little 'Dub with Japanese music' option. An option that NO other show in anime history (that I'm aware of) that got a replacement score received with their DVD releases.

So I'm sorry, but I just don't see how in the world people can still get so up in arms about it when it's so easily avoidable. Is it that hard for people to just like the score if they like it and not catch hell for it?

As for the subject at hand itself, I think it was pretty much what's already been said, it was a marketability angle. A lot of the US, even today sadly (though not near as bad as it was back then), was kind of...well, xenophobic, even when it comes to entertainment. It's been going on for a long time. Look at the original American version of Godzilla, with Raymond Burr shoved into random scenes in an attempt to make the film play out more from a US point-of-view. Or look at things like The Ring or The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, where we continue to re-make foreign films here rather than just release the foreign films to a large market, due to fear that it wouldn't sell as-is in a US market.

Considering it's happened/still happens so much with 'adult' properties, I'm not surprised at all that it happened with an animated product for kids.

Oh, and as far as the 'knowing it's from Japan' thing, I do have to disagree with you slightly on that one cRookie. I found out it was from Japan pretty quickly, even before I got the internet, just by word of mouth. But my account on that may be different than most, since I didn't get into DBZ until after the Pokemon craze, which was pretty well known to be from Japan from what I remember.

[songohan619]

The Japanese version is on the disc, ripe for the taking, and if you want the dub but still hate the score FUNi made, then there's now that nifty little 'Dub with Japanese music' option. An option that NO other show in anime history (that I'm aware of) that got a replacement score received with their DVD releases.

Actually, the UK release of the Blue Dragon English Dub had the original score, while the US release and the TV airings had replacement music.

[Gyt Kaliba]

The Japanese version is on the disc, ripe for the taking, and if you want the dub but still hate the score FUNi made, then there's now that nifty little 'Dub with Japanese music' option. An option that NO other show in anime history (that I'm aware of) that got a replacement score received with their DVD releases.

Actually, the UK release of the Blue Dragon English Dub had the original score, while the US release and the TV airings had replacement music.

Really? Huh, first time I'd heard about that. It still didn't have the option of having either score on either DVD though, right? You only just had one or the other I'm guessing.

[songohan619]

The Japanese version is on the disc, ripe for the taking, and if you want the dub but still hate the score FUNi made, then there's now that nifty little 'Dub with Japanese music' option. An option that NO other show in anime history (that I'm aware of) that got a replacement score received with their DVD releases.

Actually, the UK release of the Blue Dragon English Dub had the original score, while the US release and the TV airings had replacement music.

Really? Huh, first time I'd heard about that. It still didn't have the option of having either score on either DVD though, right? You only just had one or the other I'm guessing.

Yeah, it was kind of like the GT sets without the dub music: English dub with japanese backround music and japanese opening and endings.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Huh. Well that's interesting. I wonder if it was an intention to remove the dub music for that release all along, or if they had to for some reason or another?

Either way, my point still stands, I think. The option to completely ignore the dub score is there on all our main releases for Dragon Ball now, so it's as easy as clicking a button.

[Gokuden]

Gozar just brought up a good point over in a different thread:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 16#p591072

Basically there was a time when it seemed *noone* knew that DBZ was a Japanese cartoon in the first place. Even today I sometimes have trouble explaining where the show came from.

Again, reasons being right or wrong....just trying to answer the question.

It's because most of the characters don't have your typical anime eyes lol.

[Thanos]

*rant*

Pardon me, but I'm not exactly sure to who this is directed at. If it is at me, I am afraid your comments are strongly misguided. I was merely asking the question based on curiosity alone. I defy anyone to construe my post as coming across offended, angry, "up in arms", etc. Nor does anyone else strike me as coming across this way. A few posters, and rightly so, have simply pointed out the baffling nature of FUNimation's production decisions.

[Gyt Kaliba]

*rant*

Pardon me, but I'm not exactly sure to who this is directed at. If it is at me, I am afraid your comments are strongly misguided. I was merely asking the question based on curiosity alone. I defy anyone to construe my post as coming across offended, angry, "up in arms", etc. Nor does anyone else strike me as coming across this way. A few posters, and rightly so, have simply pointed out the baffling nature of FUNimation's production decisions.

Nah, it wasn't directed at you or at anyone in particular really. I had to re-read my post since it had been a while and some of it may have been venting. If it was pointed at anything in-particular, it probably would have been the sentiment of FUNimation not having the 'right' to change the music. They got the rights for the series, and Toei must have signed off on it, so it happened. And it just gets old when it's treated like some great sin against the series when it's easily remedied by changing the audio, that's all.

So yeah, not really aiming it at anyone in-particular, and certainly not at you.

[ABED]

I still have no idea how men in their 30s presume to know what kids like. Also, sometimes producing stuff not based on surveys, etc. is better. How would anything new or worthwhile be created if all we did is produce stuff based on what they claim to like?

[Super 17]

I'm almost sure DBZ would have been as successful had it had the original Japanese music. I mean, did FUNI really think they had to make new music to catch the audience of the generation from back then? I mean, the WHOLE world except US and UK (I don't know what the UK were doing with Ocean dub and their mega men music) got the original score and DB/Z/GT has since become culture. I'm not saying the BGM changed people's lives, but the music that came along with the plots, fights, characters changed the lives of many people in the 90's around the world. Especially in all Spanish speaking countries and a lot of European countries. So had the English Dub had the original music, it would still have been a success. Hell, it's pretty annoying how the whole episode had music. An almost full 25 minutes of an episode of non stop music. They could at least make the silent parts silent with no music. Geeez.

[Gonstead]

It was simply the practice of the time with foreign animation. Replacing a soundtrack was very common in the early days of Anime dubbing.

Remember also that there would have been money incentives behind the use of a new soundtrack so that they could collect royalties to help keep funding the show. If they didn't use new music, they would be having to pay royalties to the original composer/Toei for the use of their music and with Funimation pretty much working on pennies at that time, it's easy to see which option they went for.

Nowadays though, the practice is frowned upon by most and we now have new releases of Anime with their original soundtracks.

[ABED]

It was simply the practice of the time with foreign animation. Replacing a soundtrack was very common in the early days of Anime dubbing.

Remember also that there would have been money incentives behind the use of a new soundtrack so that they could collect royalties to help keep funding the show. If they didn't use new music, they would be having to pay royalties to the original composer/Toei for the use of their music and with Funimation pretty much working on pennies at that time, it's easy to see which option they went for.

Nowadays though, the practice is frowned upon by most and we now have new releases of Anime with their original soundtracks.

I get that it was the norm at the time, but was it a rational norm or one that men in their 40s believed had to happen because "American children wouldn't get a show not made in America"?

They collect royalties, but they also have to pay to record all new score. I think most of it comes down to them looking down on kids. Hasn't Faulconer gone on the record as saying he was instructed to have constant music because the common conception is that kids would get bored with momentary silence?

[cRookie_Monster]

It was simply the practice of the time with foreign animation. Replacing a soundtrack was very common in the early days of Anime dubbing.

Remember also that there would have been money incentives behind the use of a new soundtrack so that they could collect royalties to help keep funding the show. If they didn't use new music, they would be having to pay royalties to the original composer/Toei for the use of their music and with Funimation pretty much working on pennies at that time, it's easy to see which option they went for.

Nowadays though, the practice is frowned upon by most and we now have new releases of Anime with their original soundtracks.

I've heard a lot of people saying this, but I don't know of any plans Funi had to make money using the new soundtracks. It was Bruce's idea after the fact to release the CDs and he had to negotiate his tail off before that happened. What Funi did was pay Faulconer Productions for the new music. I think from their POV it was a necessary added expense, not a money maker. My contention has always been that using using the original music would have been/is cheaper. That's a big reason noone replaces scores anymore. They figured out it's not necessary. Less risk, less cost, less effort.