Goku's Charisma

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:17 pm

Ummm, if I were you, I'd start capitalizing my words, else you're going to get the famous warning from the "infamous" VegettoEX.

The S · Post by **The S** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:25 pm

At first, I started thinking the same as you... but you're wrong. Goku HAS killed many people. Nearly the entire Red Ribbon Army has fallen at his hands, for example.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:36 pm

Ya, but he doesn't kill unless he's basically forced to. Look how many ruddy chances he gave Freeza! Too many in my opinion! Although I always love his line just before he finally supposedly finishes him off. "You stupid bastard!" definitely sums Freeza up!

The Phantom Prophet · Post by **The Phantom Prophet** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 pm

The S wrote:At first, I started thinking the same as you... but you're wrong. Goku HAS killed many people. Nearly the entire Red Ribbon Army has fallen at his hands, for example.

thats true he did kill many people in db and dbgt, but i was thinking mroe along the lines of dbz. good point

Adamas de Diama · Post by **Adamas de Diama** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:24 am

He killed Pikkoro Daimaou, as well, let us not forget. And he wanted to do that...quite a bit, in fact. There was no mercy involved in that fight.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:46 am

Adamas de Diama wrote:He killed Pikkoro Daimaou, as well, let us not forget. And he wanted to do that...quite a bit, in fact. There was no mercy involved in that fight.

Yes, but then it's not like he had a lot of choices. It pretty much took everything he had to kill Demon King Piccolo, and if he hadn't he would've been killed. The Freeza fight was different because at the end it became clear that Goku was drastically stronger than him, so much that he no longer even posed a threat.

Adamas de Diama · Post by **Adamas de Diama** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:07 pm

My point is, no matter how few choices he had, he very much wanted to kill Pikkoro Daimaou. He killed his best friend, after all.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:15 pm

Yes, but to me that still falls under the category of being pushed to. He turned SSJ for the first time for the same reason.

Adamas de Diama · Post by **Adamas de Diama** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:55 pm

You could argue that he was forced to kill Ma Junior, as well, as he was technically a greater threat than Daimaou, but he didn't kill Ma Junior. He slew Daimaou, though. My point is, no matter how you put it, he wanted to kill Pikkoro Daimaou. He did not want to kill Furiza. He did not want to kill Ma Junior. He did not want to kill Bejiita. As for Cell and Buu...I'm not so sure. But I know for a fact that Goku did wish to kill Pikkoro Daimaou quite a bit. So, whether you call it pushed/forced or not, he was driven less by a cornering situation than by a desire to kill.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:21 am

I never said he didn't have a desire to kill, I just said, you have to do a heck of a lot to him, ie. kill his best friend, before he's pushed to that point. Don't forget, this is the same person who threw Cell a senzu bean right after he put his own son against him.

Adamas de Diama · Post by **Adamas de Diama** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:33 am

I apologize for the slight misunderstanding. Now your point's much clearer to me. If anything, Kuririn's death was much more grave in DB than in DBZ...since in DBZ, when Furiza killed Kuririn, at some point in Goku's fight against Furiza, Kuririn's revival was guaranteed (thanks Porunga), while in DB Shenlong had been slain. So, I guess though Goku was pushed over the edge against Furiza to go SSJ, since he knew that Kuririn (and Bejiita) would be revived at some point, he wasn't driven by such murderous intent. But, as well, Goku's learned from his experience with Pikkoro Daimaou--he nearly died in his effort to avenge Kuririn (disabled arm, and two broken legs). But then, that changes things a tad...because Goku wasn't faced with that threat in the least against Furiza...@_@...yeah, so nevermind like the last two sentences of this post...I guess.

A rough penny, I've given.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:51 am

Don't worry about it.

I should have worded myself better anyway. One point I have to make though. When Freeza killed Kuririn, at that time, the Namekian dragonballs were still stone, with everyone under the assumption that they were gone for good, so the only dragonballs left were Earth's. So, since Kuririn had already been wished back once with Earth's dragonballs, at that moment, there was currently no way to get him back. If memory serves me too, I believe that Goku as his rage is building against Freeza, even says this. I have to go re-check the DVD though to be absolutely sure. So I think that factor about Kuririn's death was a major reason for him to turn SSJ.

Adamas de Diama · Post by **Adamas de Diama** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:58 am

Apparently, I haven't worded myself well this time around ^_^. I wasn't saying that Kuririn's death had nothing to do with Goku's going SSJ. In fact, I was stating that it had everything to do with it, pretty much. The point I was making was that at some point in the fight, Goku didn't worry about Kuririn being stuck in Tengoku, because he knew that he could be revived. So, that's why he didn't have as much incentive to kill Furiza as he did to kill Pikkoro Daimaou.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:07 am

Ahhhh, now I see what you mean. Now I'm misunderstanding people!

In that case, I completely agree with you!

SonGohan-san · Post by **SonGohan-san** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:26 am

Goku killed Son Gohan.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:30 am

Huh?!

SonGohan-san · Post by **SonGohan-san** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:33 am

He stepped right on him.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:07 am

Call me dumb but, wha?!

SonGohan-san · Post by **SonGohan-san** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:13 am

Sorry, I guess I'm not really being specific.

Oozaru Goku stepped on his Gramdpa Gohan. We were talking about whether he killed anyone, right?

I'm pretty sure he did, unless I've been highly misinformed in which case VegettoEX would have another good tidbit for his "rumors" section b/c this idea was pretty rampant amongst the DB community. It's been so long since I've watched the early DB episodes, but I'm pretty sure this occurance is implied at one point or another.

Post by **TripleRach** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:24 am

That part is totally not rumor. Gokuu did crush his grandpa as Oozaru, and it was a fairly important plot point.

Didn't the dub of the Saiya-jin Saga mess it up so that Gokuu thought Oozaru Vegeta killed his grandpa?

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Goku's Charisma

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