How would the story change if Toriyama planned ahead?

[Pretorious]

There are instances where he does use scenes that can be called forshadowing , like , say, Guru mentioning Piccolo and Kami's fusion in the Namek arc or Baba saying that Goku will save the world one day 2 arcs earlier before he actually does. Of course, that doesn't mean that he thought of things ahead in great detail, like how or why Piccolo would fuse or who or what Goku would save the world from, but the he did throw things out there that he might want to use later on.

So I can't say how much the story would have changed if he planned ahead more. Maybe more foreshadowing? The SSJ being mentioned way earlier in the Namek arc? It was such a big deal, but iIrc, it's only brought up at the end of the arc.

It might be a stretch to call these foreshadowing but, IIRC...

1) In the very first arc of Dragon Ball, Oolong asks if Goku is an alien.
2) At the beginning of Z, in one of the first dialogues between Nappa and Vegeta (possibly the very first), Nappa uses the phrase "super saiyajin" in reference to Gohan. I think he is jokingly speculating that Gohan may be one.

I can't verify these things right now because I have to go to work.

[CashmanX]

There's that instance where Kaio mentions "the root of evil". That counts, right?

[JP6GAMER]

There's that instance where Kaio mentions "the root of evil". That counts, right?

What do you mean with that?

[DBZAOTA482]

There's that instance where Kaio mentions "the root of evil". That counts, right?

What do you mean with that?

Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo

[CashmanX]

There's that instance where Kaio mentions "the root of evil". That counts, right?

What do you mean with that?

As Vegeta tries to crawl away to his ship, Kaio mentions that "this won't destroy the roots of evil", probably referring to Freeza.

[Michsi]

2) At the beginning of Z, in one of the first dialogues between Nappa and Vegeta (possibly the very first), Nappa uses the phrases "super saiyajin" in reference to Gohan. I think he is jokingly speculating that Gohan may be one.

Oh, so the Ssj does get mentioned? I can't look it up at the moment either, but I was kinda sure the ssj legend doesn't get mentioned until the later part of the Namek arc.

[VegettoEX]

Nappa's line of dialog has nothing to do with the (later introduced) legend. He remarks that if he and Vegeta start breeding with Earthlings, based on what Gohan's showcased, they could have a whole bunch of little "Super Saiyans" running around... which Vegeta is not interested in, because then they'd probably get stronger than him.

[omegalucas]

Isn't that the sentence that doesn't use the regular term for "Super Saiyan" ("Super Saiya-jin") but something like "Cho Saiya-jin"?

[Cold Skin]

I think it would mostly be minor changes about foreshadowing future events and characters (example: Vegeta and Nappa talking about Freezer - without revealing too much about him and his overwhelming power level to not undermine Vegeta's power for the rest of the Saiyan invasion), and avoid the very few plotholes in the story which are due to emergency changes (example: Trunks would name the cyborgs C-17 and C-18 instead of C-19 and C-20 when talking with Goku).

[Rocketman]

Dragonball would end with Pilaf. Everything afterwards was made up on the fly.

[Fizzer]

So Nappa's line in the Saiyan arc actually wasn't forward planning? Damn.

That means the first mention of the Super Saiyan legend is the Grand Elder asking if the Saiyan who killed Piccolo was a Super Saiyan.

[VegettoEX]

Pretty much. You can read the whole shabang over in a thread Herms made, which will -- like all the other stuff -- eventually make its way over as a proper guide/feature on the main site.

[Herms]

I heard that AT focused more on storytelling in the Boo arc. See how that ended up.

That sounds like a garbled version of Toriyama's statement in Shenlong Times #2 that when Yu Kondo took over as his editor (ie at the start of the Saiyan arc) "at that time it began to be more fun to think up the story than to draw the pictures".

[PhoenixEX]

There would probably be more plot twists which would mean more "holy sh*t" moments. It also wouldn't be as predictable, King Kai wouldn't say the villain Goku is facing is the toughest in the galaxy for every damn villain and Goku wouldn't have to use the spirit bomb all the time. I'll prob get heat for that last sentence oh boy.

[JeffJarrett]

Dragonball would end with Pilaf. Everything afterwards was made up on the fly.

Agree, I was also going to say that. Toriyama had actually planed ahead that Dragon Ball was going to be a parody of Journey to West and his original plan ended when the Pilaf Saga ended. After this, as he was asked to continue the story, he continued without having planned anything (you know, Toriyama made manga only to have a job and earn money). He continued taking inspiration from everything he liked, introducing the Tenkaichi Budokai because it was popular at the time and because he was a fan of Jackie Chan, the Red Ribbon Army a reference to action films ala James Bond, etc.

[Pretorious]

Pretty much. You can read the whole shabang over in a thread Herms made, which will -- like all the other stuff -- eventually make its way over as a proper guide/feature on the main site.

Aw. It would have been awesome if Nappa's "super saiyan" was the same as the later kind. Well then, to answer the OP's question, I think if Toriyama planned better, that early conversation between Vegeta and Nappa would have included some minor mention of the super saiyan of legend.

I still think the Goku/alien concept being mentioned early in Dragon Ball is interesting. Maybe Toriyama originally had Oolong say it as a joke, but kept it in the back of his mind until he decided "Meh, why not?"

[andrewtuell1991]

The only things I can think of are maybe:

*A few more instances of foreshadowing

*Less plotholes (such as Cell's nucleus and Goku's Kamehameha. Piccolo, Boo, Goten, and Trunks all fitting in RoSaT when it was previously stated the room could only fit two, etc)

*A more steamlined version of the Android/Cell arc. This is the only arc IMO where the story is absolutely chaotic with the villain jumping and the four timelines confusion.

*Goku not becoming the battle obsessed blood knight prick he became post-Freeza. (I always blamed that on bad writing)

[CaBrPi]

*Less plotholes (such as Cell's nucleus and Goku's Kamehameha. Piccolo, Boo, Goten, and Trunks all fitting in RoSaT when it was previously stated the room could only fit two, etc)

I thought that one was actually that the RoSaT was only stocked for two. Like, a year's rations for two people, two beds, etc.

[Ginkasa]

I would like to see a remake of sorts with all the knowledge of the completed "original series." A second draft, if you will. I think with a little ironing out of the inconsistencies, there's some real potential for a truly epic, unified saga. It already plays out really well for AT having made it up as he went along, but I think some improvements could be made.

[DBZAOTA482]

*Goku not becoming the battle obsessed blood knight prick he became post-Freeza. (I always blamed that on bad writing)

He's not really that bad in the Cell Saga (mainly because he's barely in it). In the Boo Saga however....Toriyama flanderized him at Spongebob Squarepants-levels.