The power multiplier of ki attacks

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

Assuming the user's power momentarily increases when charging a ki attack, in your opinions, how much would you say is the average multiplier for common attacks, such as the Kamehame-ha wave, Big Bang Attack, Masenkou and Dodompa? And then, how about super attacks like the Super Kamehame-ha, Gyarikku Hou, Shin/ Kikouhou, Jiisu's Crusher Ball, Rikuumu's Eraser Cannon, Final Flash, Kaiou-ken'd Kamehame-ha, etc?

[dario03]

I would imagine it can greatly change depending on when it happened in the story and how much power they were putting into it. But we of course do see some numbers thrown around in the early part of Z. Against Raditz we see the Kamehameha be something like 2.25x the special beam canon around 3.6x and against Vegeta the galic gun is ~1.33x and the kaio ken khh seems to be whatever number the kk is. However all of those numbers are based on the fighters full power when its perfectly possible that they had taking enough damage to bring down their base. For the other moves I'm not really sure, you could almost put any number to them and it would be ok.
Also I'm not really positive if Jeice and Recoome are even capable of bringing their power up. Goku powering up with the khh by focusing power into the attack was surprising to Raditz and Jeice never said anything about focusing power into a attack (IIRC) but he did say that powering up without transformations was uncommon. Though that whole thing seems weird since it seems like they could adjust their power (it just didn't change the scouter reading). And Vegeta's Galick Gun raised his power but he might of just been a quick study and the first time that happened was on Earth.

[Kaboom]

I don't think there's any sort of consistency with things like attack amplification, and it can vary wildly from case to case.

An attack might end up more or less powerful depending on a wealth of other factors. How practiced one is with the attack, what sort of physical condition they're in, whether they're expending some amount of ki on other things (like flying) at the same time, how long they charge up or how "densely" they focus the attack, to name a few. Especially that last one. Would Goku's Kamehameha against Raditz have been anywhere near as powerful if he didn't take so much time to charge it up while Raditz was distracted? Or Vegeta's Final Flash against Cell?

Likewise, how well your opponent actually takes that attack can vary just as much. These characters aren't glass cannons, and are capable of using their own ki for putting up a defense as well as attacking. So not only is how you use the attack a factor, but so is how good your opponent is at defending against it.

[Fox666]

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[TheMightyOzaru]

Do Ki attacks have multipliers? I was always under the impression that, lets say SSJ Goku, could only go as far as 150,000,000 but isn't always exerting Ki attacks with the power of 150,000,000.

[Bussani]

If we think of battle power as a measurement of power rather than of energy, then it's possible a character could make an attack stronger than their normal battle power by charging it. That is, if someone had a battle power of 10 and could charge an attack with 100% efficiency for ten seconds, the attack might have an equivalent battle power of 100. Of course, the efficiency of the charge probably isn't anything close to 100%, so it might be more like someone with a battle power of 10 producing an attack with a power of 15 after charging for ten seconds. There would probably also be limits on just how much power you could charge into a single attack--like trying to squeeze something tighter and tighter in your hands without it slipping through your fingers.

[dario03]

Do Ki attacks have multipliers? I was always under the impression that, lets say SSJ Goku, could only go as far as 150,000,000 but isn't always exerting Ki attacks with the power of 150,000,000.

I would say they do. Remember Piccolo was only around 420 against Raditz but his special beam cannon was what ~1400. If he didn't get a multiplier from the spb then he would of had to of had a power level of around 1400 which would of made him about as strong as Raditz. And Raditz says that Goku is raising his battle power by focusing his power into one spot.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Do Ki attacks have multipliers? I was always under the impression that, lets say SSJ Goku, could only go as far as 150,000,000 but isn't always exerting Ki attacks with the power of 150,000,000.

I would say they do. Remember Piccolo was only around 420 against Raditz but his special beam cannon was what ~1400. If he didn't get a multiplier from the spb then he would of had to of had a power level of around 1400 which would of made him about as strong as Raditz. And Raditz says that Goku is raising his battle power by focusing his power into one spot.

Piccolo's full power is just 1440 then. SSJ Goku doesn't have to be giving off 150,000,000 that could just be his maximum. I'm certainly not opposed to a multiplier but I don't see a need for one.

[dario03]

I don't really think that works. Raditz is only supposed to be something like 1500 and if Piccolo was at 1440 then him and Goku shouldn't have had trouble when fighting Raditz 2 on 1. Its possible that they can raise their power without using a named special technique but I would imagine they still do it by focusing their power into one spot. And if the certain special moves didn't give a benefit of a higher multiplier then why even make new ones. Why would Piccolo use a new move that he hadn't perfected yet instead of just using a regular move?

[Bussani]

Do Ki attacks have multipliers? I was always under the impression that, lets say SSJ Goku, could only go as far as 150,000,000 but isn't always exerting Ki attacks with the power of 150,000,000.

I would say they do. Remember Piccolo was only around 420 against Raditz but his special beam cannon was what ~1400. If he didn't get a multiplier from the spb then he would of had to of had a power level of around 1400 which would of made him about as strong as Raditz. And Raditz says that Goku is raising his battle power by focusing his power into one spot.

Piccolo's full power is just 1440 then. SSJ Goku doesn't have to be giving off 150,000,000 that could just be his maximum. I'm certainly not opposed to a multiplier but I don't see a need for one.

I think I can see where you're coming from, and I think this is something that comes down to how we're going to define a person's "full power". On the one hand, it might be logical to call the biggest battle power a person can produce their full power; on the other hand, I don't think Piccolo could have raised his battle power to 1,440 and just started punching and kicking Raditz with it. So if I were going to call 1,440 his full power, it would be with a disclaimer that his full power could only come out in the form of a special attack of some sort. One could also describe this as your battle power multiplying when you perform a special attack, which is just another way of describing the same thing.

[dario03]

Exactly. You can say that the spb let him focus his full power to a far better degree than any other attack or you could say that the spb multiplies his power for that attack. It basically works out the same but the special attack is needed to achieve that kind of power in a attack. Kind of like how Goku's max power before turning super saiyan was 60,000,000 but he couldn't achieve that without Kaio Ken.

[Fox666]

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[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

Do you fellows think it's possible that Captain Ginyuu's "120,000" was only his power level when he launched his Milky Cannon at Gokuu?

[Fox666]

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[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

I'm not sure what you mean.

[Bussani]

Eeehh, I think you guys are trying to find too many explanations.

As far as I was concerned, I only had one explanation, and it's more or less the same as yours. I just described it in multiple ways to show that whether it's a multiplier or not is a matter of wording.

[Darkprince410]

I think I can see where you're coming from, and I think this is something that comes down to how we're going to define a person's "full power". On the one hand, it might be logical to call the biggest battle power a person can produce their full power; on the other hand, I don't think Piccolo could have raised his battle power to 1,440 and just started punching and kicking Raditz with it. So if I were going to call 1,440 his full power, it would be with a disclaimer that his full power could only come out in the form of a special attack of some sort. One could also describe this as your battle power multiplying when you perform a special attack, which is just another way of describing the same thing.

I've always held the theory that, at the time, neither Piccolo or Goku knew how to fully raise or lower their ki in battle. Outside of situations like readying ki attacks, you never really saw situations of them powering up in Dragonball, and didn't really even see situations of them powering up just to power up until Nappa's power up scene. You'd have them sitting at X battle power, but until they were preparing some kind of ki attack (Gohan's Masenko, Kuririn's Scattering Ki attack, etc), they'd not actually "power up". This would explain why, later on, we don't see random exclamations of Kamehamehas suddenly becoming over twice as strong as the what the fighter was capable of (otherwise a full power Kamehameha from Ssj Goku during the Freeza Saga would have been over 300,000,000 or so), because by that time, they had learned how to raise and lower their battle powers on their own.

[Bussani]

That's an interesting way of looking at it. Seeing as how the only thing that seemed to change their battle power during the fight (apart from special attacks) was their weighted clothes, that could fit.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

That's a really good theory DarkPrince, and one I definetly agree with

[Fox666]

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