The power multiplier of ki attacks

[Saiga]

I'm just comparing the BP of 910 (23rd Budokai, not specified if it's Goku or the Super Kamehameha, only really makes sense as the latter) to 924 (Goku's Kamehameha against Raditz).

That's a very small difference.

[Fox666]

deleted

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yeah, Goku didn't use Super Kamehameha on Raditz, so if his Super Kamehameha during the 23rd TB was 310, and his normal Kamehameha is over 924, then I would say he got a big increase.

[GoKu.SaMa]

That depends on how much energy the user wants to use in the attack.

All we know is that the pro ki user can make his ki attacks more than 3 x stronger than his normal attacks without losing much energy.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

That depends on how much energy the user wants to use in the attack.

All we know is that the pro ki user can make his ki attacks more than 3 x stronger than his normal attacks without losing much energy.

We actually don't even know that for certain; maybe Gokuu and Ma'o's real power levels were above 800 against Raditzu.

[GoKu.SaMa]

That depends on how much energy the user wants to use in the attack.

All we know is that the pro ki user can make his ki attacks more than 3 x stronger than his normal attacks without losing much energy.

We actually don't even know that for certain; maybe Gokuu and Ma'o's real power levels were above 800 against Raditzu.

when picolo fought raditz his power level was 408 , but his power level with the Makankōsappō fully charged was 1330

that means he doubled his power level more than 3×

and if he put all of his ki energy into the attack he might double it 10× .

Every one saw goku using the full power kamehameh against cell and every one saw the result

it was obvious that goku doubled his power more than 3× .

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

It just means his power rose. It doesn't necessarily mean from where. Unless you want to take into fact what the Ginyuu's said about Gokuu's power level being only 5,000 to be fact, too.

[GoKu.SaMa]

That depends on how much energy the user wants to use in the attack.

All we know is that the pro ki user can make his ki attacks more than 3 x stronger than his normal attacks without losing much energy.

We actually don't even know that for certain; maybe Gokuu and Ma'o's real power levels were above 800 against Raditzu.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/manga/

[GoKu.SaMa]

It just means his power rose. It doesn't necessarily mean from where. Unless you want to take into fact what the Ginyuu's said about Gokuu's power level being only 5,000 to be fact, too.

goku was hiding his ki when he met ginyuu

but at the time he met raditz he was using his ful power

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

How does that prove anything? We've never seen ki attacks raise that much afterward, so why isn't it possible Gokuu and Ma'o's battle powers weren't simple raising as the battle was progressing and their ki attacks only momentarily raised their power by, say, 1.1x?

[Fox666]

deleted

[Saiga]

Yeah, Goku didn't use Super Kamehameha on Raditz, so if his Super Kamehameha during the 23rd TB was 310, and his normal Kamehameha is over 924, then I would say he got a big increase.

910, not 310. And I'm pretty sure he did use a Super Kamehameha on Raditz, because the numbers match up and after the first use no distinction is made from the two types again.

[Fox666]

deleted

[Saiga]

And again, there is nothing that suggests that 910 is meant to be Goku's power while using the Super Kamehame-ha (or even a regular Kamehame-ha), if anything the V-Jump meant it to be Goku's regular power, whenever it makes sense or not.

They also listed 2,800 for Gohan, which was his Masenko. 910 being the Super Kamehameha makes the most sense, as I said.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

910, not 310.

Typo.

And I'm pretty sure he did use a Super Kamehameha on Raditz, because the numbers match up and after the first use no distinction is made from the two types again.

Kamehameha & Super Kamehameha are easily distinguishable in the manga. The Super Kamehameha is a lot bigger than the user, while the normal one is not that big.


Super Kamehameha (against Piccolo)
Kamehameha (against Raditz)

Besides, how can you imagine Goku & Piccolo getting so small increases after 5 years?

[hleV]

Besides, how can you imagine Goku & Piccolo getting so small increases after 5 years?

Goku had to settle with a family, look after a kid, etc. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I don't think there's any implication that Goku had done any serious training during those 5 years. Neither was he trained by a god or even have a sparring partner.

... Unless you believe in those random huge power increases under normal training conditions.

[Saiga]

They look different, sure, but that doesn't mean the second Kamehameha isn't a Super Kamehameha as well. I think it'd have to be to make any sort of sense. If it wasn't, then it doesn't make sense why he didn't try the Super Kamehameha at all - especially if it's even stronger than 924.

As Fox666 said, Goku settled down so I can see him not doing any serious training for those 5 years. Piccolo didn't train either according to In the Name of Piccolo Daimao.

[GoKu.SaMa]

FOX 666

He probably meant that it is possible that the two of them were supressing their powers

No they were not suppressing their powers

they were using their full power

goku battle power was 416

we can't assume that he was suppressing his power

if he can increase his battle power then why didn't he just do it ?

and it was even written in the daizenchu that goku battle power was 416

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Piccolo was training hard to surpass & kill Goku, but Goku was still was the superior one against Raditz, and there wasn't any big difference between their powers, neither during the 23rd TB, nor against Raditz. They were almost equals both before, and after the 5 years time-skip. Not saying that they became 2 or 3 or 10 times stronger than before, but getting only about a 14 units increase in their battle powers is way too little for guys like Goku & Piccolo, especially during the time they were rivals.

Piccolo didn't train either according to In the Name of Piccolo Daimao.

That's anime-based, written by people working for Toei. But still, Piccolo said that he will train, that he can't be at peace, and that he will make Goku pay.



Unless if you are referring to the title page, which says that Piccolo ended his training after the 5 years.

[Saiga]

Oh, it was anime-based? I thought it was based on the manga. Eh.

I still don't think Goku and Piccolo trained much over the years. Piccolo created the Makankosappo, but that's it. It's the only way Goku's 910 and 924 battle powers make sense to me.