Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
bleed0range wrote:I don't see how anyone could hate on the jump special. It was everything that the movies lacked. It had that toriyama feel and humor. There was character development and interaction. There was even a mini plot twist with the inclusion of vegetas brother. To me it recaptured the spirit of the old series perfectly. Boring is elisode of bardock. I agree with you on that one.
The special was boring, because the ennemies were too weak. Tarble is useless, they introduced Vegeta's brother, but he is just a background character.
And plot hole: why are Abo and Kado eating with Goku and his friends at the end? They continued to destroy planets after Frieza's death, they attacked Tarble's adoptive planet, and they followed him to Earth in order to kill him and his wife.
I think the concept of Broli is hit and miss, I like the idea of a blood thirsty monster who represents what the Saiyan race was like at their core but I also wish he had a better back story.
bleed0range wrote:
And plot hole: why are Abo and Kado eating with Goku and his friends at the end? They continued to destroy planets after Freeza's death, they attacked Tarble's adoptive planet, and they followed him to Earth in order to kill him and his wife.
That's not a plot hole.
I haven't seen all of the movies. Most of them are pretty bad to begin with.
bleed0range wrote:I don't see how anyone could hate on the jump special. It was everything that the movies lacked. It had that toriyama feel and humor. There was character development and interaction. There was even a mini plot twist with the inclusion of vegetas brother. To me it recaptured the spirit of the old series perfectly. Boring is elisode of bardock. I agree with you on that one.
The special was boring, because the ennemies were too weak. Tarble is useless, they introduced Vegeta's brother, but he is just a background character.
And plot hole: why are Abo and Kado eating with Goku and his friends at the end? They continued to destroy planets after Freeza's death, they attacked Tarble's adoptive planet, and they followed him to Earth in order to kill him and his wife.
Dragon Ball is more than just tough villains. I know some people think it's just about the fighting, but there's a whole spirit to it that I think this special captured. Tarble didn't do much, but it's mostly because the special was only like 20 minutes. If this had been part of the manga it would have branched out eventually... that's why I like that he is there, it's like something Toriyama would have put in the manga. It's better than the cookie-cutter copy-cat methods of a lot of the Z movies.
Movie 11 for me is the worst. Broly is a guilty pleasure for me. I know how stupid and bland he is but can't help but like him. Movie 8 was my favourite movie though. I'm probably in the minority for not liking movie 13. I don't hate it, but don't particularly go back to it. being an in-universe guy I didn't like the direction it took and I really didn't care for the villains or tapion (yeah coming from me, the guy who likes Broly lol). Movie 7 was just bland and boring. basically I like movies 1-6,8-10,12.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
bleed0range wrote:I don't see how anyone could hate on the jump special. It was everything that the movies lacked. It had that toriyama feel and humor. There was character development and interaction. There was even a mini plot twist with the inclusion of vegetas brother. To me it recaptured the spirit of the old series perfectly. Boring is elisode of bardock. I agree with you on that one.
The special was boring, because the ennemies were too weak. Tarble is useless, they introduced Vegeta's brother, but he is just a background character.
And plot hole: why are Abo and Kado eating with Goku and his friends at the end? They continued to destroy planets after Freeza's death, they attacked Tarble's adoptive planet, and they followed him to Earth in order to kill him and his wife.
Dragon Ball is more than just tough villains. I know some people think it's just about the fighting, but there's a whole spirit to it that I think this special captured. Tarble didn't do much, but it's mostly because the special was only like 20 minutes. If this had been part of the manga it would have branched out eventually... that's why I like that he is there, it's like something Toriyama would have put in the manga. It's better than the cookie-cutter copy-cat methods of a lot of the Z movies.
I agree. The humour was very Toriyama. Loved the material with Goku and Vegeta.
It is in his character to be rude and a bit crass. He's a hick, with no formal education. That is Son Goku. That is who he is.
Superman in an orange Gi was the bastard son of FUNimation. Its not The real character, it is as false as Chatku.
I've read all the Dragon Ball manga and Dr. Slump (and other manga written by Toriyama), and I don't find the humour of the special very Toriyama.
I don't even find the special funny. It's not as crazy and hilarous as Toriyama's manga are.
Honestly I dislike Broly the character but loved his films. Movie 8 felt like the first movie where they actually tried to have a plot, and it was working until the fight scene happened where it became a boring brawl fest. Movie 10 and 11 I like because it gives the lesser characters time to shine.
I'd say 7 is the worst, visually great scenery but that is all its got going for it.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
To be honest I dislike all the DBZ movie except movie 13. All the other movies have lame unoriginal villains and the story lines were all just recycled copies of each other, movie 13 is the only one I can actually call a movie since it focuses on character development and the story. The only reason I watch the other films is because of the good animation and fight sequences.
Anyone who doesn't think Movie 6 is the worst movie probably hasn't seen it. It's a complete eye sore and Meta Cooler is super lame. The only good part was Piccolo trashing robots.
Friggin_Krillin wrote:The One with the Androids has the worst Animation, though. I would even say catastrophic at times.
No way, there are some weird looking parts in Movie 7 but none of them are as bad as Movie 6.
This is the episode of when Gokuh enrages himself after Freezer talk shit about Kuririn
I think Movie 6 has some redeeming factors to it. It's got a killer soundtrack (as well as great ending theme), it's got a Big Bang Attack showcase, it's got a hilarious little killer robot helper dude, and a few other aspects. Even though it's on "Namek" again, I like the subtle change in the overall color palette due to the technology encroaching on it. On the other hand, it's got some pretty awful in-between animation scenes, some big noses... OK, so the character designs and overall art is pretty low-bar. There's just something about it that I don't mind too much. Hard to really pin it all down to explain.
Movie 4 is definitely the bottom of the barrel. I've read and watched Piccolo-Daimao already. You can say how many movie villains just re-do the manga/TV villain-of-the-moment all over again in a short little movie, but Slug takes the cake. Maybe the only thing that's interesting to me about the movie is the drab, broken-down, city landscapes where they fight. Everything else about the movie -- every. single. other. thing. -- is so incredibly boring to the point that I don't think anyone was awake at the wheel. They were stuck with this incomplete concept of a "Super Saiyan" that makes no sense before OR after its proper introduction, completely uninspired henchmen (to go along with a completely uninspired main villain), the standard Goku/Piccolo/Gohan nonsense after just having a movie where everyone else at least got a shot at someone.... ugh. Everything's just SO BAD.
Movie 11's also pretty terrible, but it at least has a few genuinely-funny moments between #18 / Mr. Satan and Goten / Trunks. Kuririn's little jingle is also amazing, even if the rest of the soundtrack is forgettable.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
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VegettoEX wrote:I think Movie 6 has some redeeming factors to it. It's got a killer soundtrack (as well as great ending theme), it's got a Big Bang Attack showcase, it's got a hilarious little killer robot helper dude, and a few other aspects. Even though it's on "Namek" again, I like the subtle change in the overall color palette due to the technology encroaching on it. On the other hand, it's got some pretty awful in-between animation scenes, some big noses... OK, so the character designs and overall art is pretty low-bar. There's just something about it that I don't mind too much. Hard to really pin it all down to explain.
Movie 4 is definitely the bottom of the barrel. I've read and watched Piccolo-Daimao already. You can say how many movie villains just re-do the manga/TV villain-of-the-moment all over again in a short little movie, but Slug takes the cake. Maybe the only thing that's interesting to me about the movie is the drab, broken-down, city landscapes where they fight. Everything else about the movie -- every. single. other. thing. -- is so incredibly boring to the point that I don't think anyone was awake at the wheel. They were stuck with this incomplete concept of a "Super Saiyan" that makes no sense before OR after its proper introduction, completely uninspired henchmen (to go along with a completely uninspired main villain), the standard Goku/Piccolo/Gohan nonsense after just having a movie where everyone else at least got a shot at someone.... ugh. Everything's just SO BAD.
Movie 11's also pretty terrible, but it at least has a few genuinely-funny moments between #18 / Mr. Satan and Goten / Trunks. Kuririn's little jingle is also amazing, even if the rest of the soundtrack is forgettable.
I agree with Movie 4, I've only actaully seen Movie 4 once, But I doubt it would hold up well for me if i rewatch it. and i forgot how many sidekicks Slug had, so very forgettable movie to me at least with movie 5 and 6 improved everything for me
Movie Four is undeniably the worst. Well, undeniably to me, at any rate. The villain is a rehashed combination of Daimao and Frieza, the animation is mostly poor except for some select backgrounds, and even the theme of a villain doing harm to the environment was explored in the film immediately preceding it (and it was done better in Tree of Might, to boot).
Bio-Broly is bad, but it's so bad that it makes it entertaining to watch. Lord Slug is just unwatchably bland and banal.
Dr. Gero: I cleared the area of innocents, in accordance with your wishes. Do you disagree with my methods? Goku: Grr...leave these people out of this! Android 19: There are no people left to leave out.
I think DBZ Movie 4 is an improved version of DBZ Movie 3. Movie 3 is more boring, and the other Z Fighters appear but it's only to perform their signature move and nothing more - signature moves which in fact are used only once in the original manga series. What's great in Movie 3 is the return of the Great Ape, and Turles' moves. Movie 4 goes more quickly to the action. I think having a bad Namekian is a good idea to balancec all the good Namekians shown during the Namek/Frieza Saga (and for once that it's not the Saiyans who are highlighted in DBZ). The Movie is very different to the King Piccolo Saga, and Slug has a different appearance than all the Namekians highlighted in the series, he is notably bigger. Him turining into a giant was great, not showing Goku that he was a Namekian before this too, the moved used by Slug's henchmen were scary (Medamatcha's medas), as well all the other reference to the original King Piccolo and the Namekian's abilities were great: Medamatcha's outfit, Angila's ability to extend his arms, their relation to the demons/Mazoku, treating Piccolo as one of their brothers and offering him to join, etc.
at least with movie 5 and 6 improved everything for me