Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Because every thing about Goku was wrong at that video .

Care to explain why? If Saiyan arc base Goku could run at beyond light-speed, then he should have run through the Serpentine Road, it wouldn't take him 6 months to get there the first time while running, and about a day the second time while flying. If base Boo arc Goku is 1000 times stronger than Superman, there shouldn't be any problem for him to lift 40 tons, but guess what, he did have a problem, since he could barely lift them.

[GoKu.SaMa]

Because every thing about Goku was wrong at that video .

Care to explain why? If Saiyan arc base Goku could run at beyond light-speed, then he should have run through the Serpentine Road, it wouldn't take him 6 months to get there the first time while running, and about a day the second time while flying. If base Boo arc Goku is 1000 times stronger than Superman, there shouldn't be any problem for him to lift 40 tons, but guess what, he did have a problem, since he could barely lift them.

I watched the viedo again .

And the mistakes are :

1-Goku was almost equal to superman with out using the SSJ then he transformed and his power was 50 times stronger than it was before , and the battle should have ended right there in less than 1 sec , but in the video there was no different even after using the SSJ .

2-Even after using the SSJ2 there was no different at all

3-Even after using the SSJ3 there was no different at all

4-Even after using the SSJ4 there was no different at all , so Goku doubled his battle power 4000 times but there was no different !!!

5-Superman's weak eyes beam was almost as strong as Goku's full power Kamehameha and Goku was using the SSJ4 !!!

6-Why didn't Goku use the Spirit Bomb while using the SSJ4 ?

7-They said Goku (using the SSJ4) twice as fast as the light , Freeza using 0.5 of his full power is twice as fast as the light ! .

Goku is more than 10000 times faster than the light .

[Mewzard]

Because every thing about Goku was wrong at that video .

Care to explain why? If Saiyan arc base Goku could run at beyond light-speed, then he should have run through the Serpentine Road, it wouldn't take him 6 months to get there the first time while running, and about a day the second time while flying. If base Boo arc Goku is 1000 times stronger than Superman, there shouldn't be any problem for him to lift 40 tons, but guess what, he did have a problem, since he could barely lift them.

I watched the viedo again .

And the mistakes are :

1-Goku was almost equal to superman with out using the SSJ then he transformed and his power was 50 times stronger than it was before , and the battle should have ended right there in less than 1 sec , but in the video there was no different even after using the SSJ .

2-Even after using the SSJ2 there was no different at all

3-Even after using the SSJ3 there was no different at all

4-Even after using the SSJ4 there was no different at all , so Goku doubled his battle power 4000 times but there was no different !!!

5-Superman's weak eyes beam was almost as strong as Goku's full power Kamehameha and Goku was using the SSJ4 !!!

6-Why didn't Goku use the Spirit Bomb while using the SSJ4 ?

7-They said Goku (using the SSJ4) twice as fast as the light , Freeza using 0.5 of his full power is twice as fast as the light ! .

Goku is more than 10000 times faster than the light .

There's a problem you don't seem to understand. The fights in the video are just for show. They don't matter as to who wins. The stats are the deciding factor, and the fights are just to show off everyone's abilities. If you prefer to look at it this way: Superman was holding back for most of the fight. He rarely fights at full power because he doesn't want to wreck the planet. And his Heat Vision is powerful. He dethawed the frozen Earth once from over 200,000 miles away using his heat vision.

You claim the above are flaws when it's clear you didn't pay attention to Superman's portion of the video, or even Goku's given you keep insisting on false facts like Freeza's speed and that Goku is "10,000 times faster than the speed of light" when he's not less than a percent of that speed.

[dario03]

There's a problem you don't seem to understand. The fights in the video are just for show. They don't matter as to who wins. The stats are the deciding factor, and the fights are just to show off everyone's abilities. If you prefer to look at it this way: Superman was holding back for most of the fight. He rarely fights at full power because he doesn't want to wreck the planet. And his Heat Vision is powerful. He dethawed the frozen Earth once from over 200,000 miles away using his heat vision.

You claim the above are flaws when it's clear you didn't pay attention to Superman's portion of the video, or even Goku's given you keep insisting on false facts like Freeza's speed and that Goku is "10,000 times faster than the speed of light" when he's not less than a percent of that speed.

Yeah Goku.SaMa those only look like problems because you don't seem to know about Superman or how these videos work. You also seem to be using generous estimates for Goku which if we did the same for Superman we could come up with Superman's speed being at least trillions of times faster than the speed of light.

1-4 - Even in DC comics Superman can look like he is having trouble with weaker opponents because he holds back so much. Every time Goku powers up Superman just needs to adjust and also I saw changes especially when Goku went SS4. And the video is mostly for show.
5 - His eyebeams are not weak, theres also plenty of evidence that says that Superman could have easily just melted Goku's brain with them if he wanted to
6 - Goku went SS4 and used Dragon fist shortly after absorbing the Spirit bomb so he probably still had the boost, heck maybe he launched the SS1 beam attack to get Superman closer so that he wouldn't miss with the Dragon Fist
7 - again if you want to be so generous with DBZ estimates then we can do the same for Superman and he becomes even more insane.

[Bussani]

ScrewAttack were obviously in superman side .

I disagree. We (the Kanzenshuu community) did the bulk of their Goku research for them, and I for one think they followed it to the letter, so I don't see how they were biased.

1-Goku was almost equal to superman with out using the SSJ then he transformed and his power was 50 times stronger than it was before , and the battle should have ended right there in less than 1 sec , but in the video there was no different even after using the SSJ .

2-Even after using the SSJ2 there was no different at all

3-Even after using the SSJ3 there was no different at all

4-Even after using the SSJ4 there was no different at all , so Goku doubled his battle power 4000 times but there was no different !!!

Because Superman was more powerful than him all along. He could have killed Goku from the beginning, but that would have been a boring video.

6-Why didn't Goku use the Spirit Bomb while using the SSJ4 ?

Because they were taking the movies into consideration, and one of the movies says that a Super Saiyan can't use the attack. They can absorb it into themselves, however.

7-They said Goku (using the SSJ4) twice as fast as the light , Freeza using 0.5 of his full power is twice as fast as the light ! .

Goku is more than 10000 times faster than the light .

You've just decided that for yourself using math that you think makes sense. If he were that fast, Goku would be able to travel anywhere on Earth in less time than it would take to find someone's ki and teleport to them. If you look at the actual feats, I don't think Goku's speed progresses the way you think it should have at all.

[Rocketman]

I don't understand why it's so difficult to accept that Goku isn't the strongest dude ever.

[Hellspawn28]

4-Freeza (using 0.5% of his full power) is 2500 times stronger than Picolo Daimao , and Picolo is capable of destroying the earth

so why couldn't Freeza destroy the universe ?

You don't know how much power it takes to destroy a whole universe do you? The power to destroy a universe would destroy every galaxy, every dimension and time & space itself for it work. Piccolo Diamao can't destroy a Planet since his most powerful attack only destroy a city and Piccolo (who much stronger) can only destroy a whole island when fought Goku. DBZ characters don't officially blow up Planets completely until Freeza.

[Puto]

6-Why didn't Goku use the Spirit Bomb while using the SSJ4 ?

Because they were taking the movies into consideration, and one of the movies says that a Super Saiyan can't use the attack. They can absorb it into themselves, however.

Actually, it's because the Genki-Dama can't be directly used against people who are genuinely good of heart (i.e. Gohan could bounce it back because of it) which would include Superman.

[GoKu.SaMa]

Mewzard

So superman was using less than 0.0025 % of his full power at the beginning of the fight ?
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And what about the fifth and the sixth point ?
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I did the math my self , and i didn't use any fake numbers , you can do it your self

[GoKu.SaMa]

There's a problem you don't seem to understand. The fights in the video are just for show. They don't matter as to who wins. The stats are the deciding factor, and the fights are just to show off everyone's abilities. If you prefer to look at it this way: Superman was holding back for most of the fight. He rarely fights at full power because he doesn't want to wreck the planet. And his Heat Vision is powerful. He dethawed the frozen Earth once from over 200,000 miles away using his heat vision.

You claim the above are flaws when it's clear you didn't pay attention to Superman's portion of the video, or even Goku's given you keep insisting on false facts like Freeza's speed and that Goku is "10,000 times faster than the speed of light" when he's not less than a percent of that speed.

Yeah Goku.SaMa those only look like problems because you don't seem to know about Superman or how these videos work. You also seem to be using generous estimates for Goku which if we did the same for Superman we could come up with Superman's speed being at least trillions of times faster than the speed of light.

1-4 - Even in DC comics Superman can look like he is having trouble with weaker opponents because he holds back so much. Every time Goku powers up Superman just needs to adjust and also I saw changes especially when Goku went SS4. And the video is mostly for show.
5 - His eyebeams are not weak, theres also plenty of evidence that says that Superman could have easily just melted Goku's brain with them if he wanted to
6 - Goku went SS4 and used Dragon fist shortly after absorbing the Spirit bomb so he probably still had the boost, heck maybe he launched the SS1 beam attack to get Superman closer so that he wouldn't miss with the Dragon Fist
7 - again if you want to be so generous with DBZ estimates then we can do the same for Superman and he becomes even more insane.

5-Are u sure ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLunw4lPi7Y

6-Why didn't he use the Spirit Bomb while using the SSJ4 and then absorb it ?

7- Ok you can do the same , you might convince me .


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It's hard to discuss with all of you guys because i don't know a lot about superman , but he seems very weak in the videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBXSoajMi1s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLunw4lPi7Y

[dario03]

5-Are u sure ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLunw4lPi7Y

6-Why didn't he use the Spirit Bomb while using the SSJ4 and then absorb it ?

7- Ok you can do the same , you might convince me .


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It's hard to discuss with all of you guys because i don't know a lot about superman , but he seems very weak in the videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBXSoajMi1s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLunw4lPi7Y

5 - I'm not sure if his eyebeams could hold back a beam attack from Goku or not because I'm not sure how much force they generate but I do know that he has had beam battles before and pushed people back so there is some force. And I am sure that the beams are not weak because they are very very hot and he has fried peoples brains before, its even in the video.

6 - I don't know why he didn't but what I'm saying is that he went SS4 just a little bit after absorbing the spirit bomb so I don't think it would of really made a difference. I don't think absorbing the spirit bomb while SS4 would be stronger than absorbing it and then becoming SS4.

7 - I covered Superman's extreme showings of speed earlier in the thread, basically the biggest things that I brought up was when he went from Pluto to Earth and found some people in probably about 30 seconds to a minute (it doesn't specify a time but the people only had a short conversation) and Pluto is around 5 light hours away give or take. And another time he went from the Vega system to Earth in probably a couple of minutes (again doesn't specify but there is a emergency and no response personal had shown up before Superman) and thats 25 light years (that comes out to millions of times faster than light). And if we are being very generous we can say that Superman is usually almost as fast as the Flash (which he usually is) and the Flash once evacuated over 500,000 people from a city before a exploding nuclear bomb could hurt them (the math worked out to being well over 8,000,000,000,000 times the speed of light).

And I wouldn't pay much attention to videos that only show Superman from the animated series. Superman is weak in that show, everybody including the makers of the show will tell you that. Actually its even in the special features on the dvd, they say something like we wanted to use a weaker Superman because its hard to come up with challenges for a guy thats so powerful he can destroy the universe by accidently listening to hard (though I'm pretty sure thats a exageration since I don't think that ever happened). And even his weaker showings in comics don't matter much because he holds back a lot consciously and sub-subconsciously. But like the video says he gets rid of the sub-subconsciously part over time. And usually those videos use a characters best showings (minus limited power ups) and thats what they did for Goku. Pretty sure Goku only ever absorbed the spirit bomb once and that was in a movie and I'm pretty sure Super kaio ken was also only ever done once and that was in filler and only in SS1 but yet they had him absorbed a spirit bomb and use SS4KK.

[GoKu.SaMa]

4-Freeza (using 0.5% of his full power) is 2500 times stronger than Picolo Daimao , and Picolo is capable of destroying the earth

so why couldn't Freeza destroy the universe ?

You don't know how much power it takes to destroy a whole universe do you? The power to destroy a universe would destroy every galaxy, every dimension and time & space itself for it work. Piccolo Diamao can't destroy a Planet since his most powerful attack only destroy a city and Piccolo (who much stronger) can only destroy a whole island when fought Goku. DBZ characters don't officially blow up Planets completely until Freeza.

Freeza is capable of destroying the universe but of course not with one blow , i don't know how long would it take from him to do that but he can .

Picolo Dimao is capable of destroying the Earth and he said that , but that dosen't necessarily mean with one blow .

Destroying a far planet is not as hard as u think , Muten Roshi destroyed the moon with one blow because it was far .

[TheMightyOzaru]

Why bring universe busting or planet busting up if it cannot be done in one blow? It's ultimately a non-point since Superman can do it as well =/. Speed doesn't necessarily scale linerally and it could have a cap. DBZ also heavily abuses cinematic time.

[GoKu.SaMa]

6-Why didn't Goku use the Spirit Bomb while using the SSJ4 ?

Because they were taking the movies into consideration, and one of the movies says that a Super Saiyan can't use the attack. They can absorb it into themselves, however.

Actually, it's because the Genki-Dama can't be directly used against people who are genuinely good of heart (i.e. Gohan could bounce it back because of it) which would include Superman.

Yes but his not going to throw it , he is going to absorb it .

[GoKu.SaMa]

Why bring universe busting or planet busting up if it cannot be done in one blow? It's ultimately a non-point since Superman can do it as well =/. Speed doesn't necessarily scale linerally and it could have a cap. DBZ also heavily abuses cinematic time.

I don't know a lot about superman but what i think he can Barely destroy a planet.

Sorry but i don't understand what you are saying about the second point (the speed) .

[VegettoEX]

Trust me, we covered all that. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: we likely already tossed tons of research and backing-statements over to the ScrewAttack guys for anything and everything you think you can possibly bring to the table. Sure, there's probably some little thing here or there that we didn't touch upon, but in all seriousness... it's been covered, it was taken into consideration, and if it wasn't listed or talked about, it probably didn't make any difference when it came down to it.

For what it's worth...

Daizenshuu 6 lists Goku's usage of the Genki-Dama there in DBZ Movie 7 as being absorbed while he was unconscious:

Goku sprouts an evil heart when he becomes a Super Saiyan. Because of this, he becomes unable to use the Genki-dama, which is used with a just heart. But after transforming, Goku takes the energy of the vanishing Genki-dama into himself while unconscious. It could be said that this is a special attack only for Goku!!

Goku would likely have never used the Genki-dama against Superman if he truly understood that he was ALSO a good guy. In the "DEATH BATTLE!" version of fights, some of these feelings and inhibitions need to be stripped away just to get the two fighting in the first place (which is something we've already covered). Here, Goku just kinda attacks him with the tiniest little reason because... well... they needed the two of them to fight. I think it becomes obvious to Goku pretty quickly (both here in the "DEATH BATTLE!" video and also in every other hypothetical version of the fight that we all make up in our heads) that Superman's not a bad guy, so no, he would never try to use the Genki-dama.

And if he wasn't going to use the Genki-dama, he'd never have an opportunity to absorb it while unconscious to gain the extra power from it.

So Goku would have to PURPOSEFULLY create the Genki-dama -- which he would know he wouldn't be able to use in a standard way -- and then, on top of all that, get himself knocked unconscious, AND ON TOP OF THAT, hope that his body would figure out a way to absorb the energy from it.

That's one Hell of gamble, and I don't think it's one Goku would make.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Why bring universe busting or planet busting up if it cannot be done in one blow? It's ultimately a non-point since Superman can do it as well =/. Speed doesn't necessarily scale linerally and it could have a cap. DBZ also heavily abuses cinematic time.

I don't know a lot about superman but what i think he can Barely destroy a planet.

Sorry but i don't understand what you are saying about the second point (the speed) .

Well then stop saying Goku would win. Superman can punch with the force equivilent to a supernova and can destroy a planet with ease. He is also constantly holding back too.

[GoKu.SaMa]

ScrewAttack were obviously in superman side .

I disagree. We (the Kanzenshuu community) did the bulk of their Goku research for them, and I for one think they followed it to the letter, so I don't see how they were biased.

1-Goku was almost equal to superman with out using the SSJ then he transformed and his power was 50 times stronger than it was before , and the battle should have ended right there in less than 1 sec , but in the video there was no different even after using the SSJ .

2-Even after using the SSJ2 there was no different at all

3-Even after using the SSJ3 there was no different at all

4-Even after using the SSJ4 there was no different at all , so Goku doubled his battle power 4000 times but there was no different !!!

Because Superman was more powerful than him all along. He could have killed Goku from the beginning, but that would have been a boring video.

6-Why didn't Goku use the Spirit Bomb while using the SSJ4 ?

Because they were taking the movies into consideration, and one of the movies says that a Super Saiyan can't use the attack. They can absorb it into themselves, however.

7-They said Goku (using the SSJ4) twice as fast as the light , Freeza using 0.5 of his full power is twice as fast as the light ! .

Goku is more than 10000 times faster than the light .

You've just decided that for yourself using math that you think makes sense. If he were that fast, Goku would be able to travel anywhere on Earth in less time than it would take to find someone's ki and teleport to them. If you look at the actual feats, I don't think Goku's speed progresses the way you think it should have at all.

Watch the video again , i think it's obvious +Goku is Japanese and superman is American so ...

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So superman was using less than 0.0025 % of his full power ?

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Goku can't use the Spirit Bomb while using the SSJ ?


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Yes he don't need to teleport in Earth , but it would be faster to go to far places like King Kai planet .

There was nothing wrong with the numbers i used .

[TheMightyOzaru]

There is something wrong with your numbers. They are contradicted by points in the series. If they were capable of moving at speeds of light or faster, they would do it. They are always taking a minute or 2 to get anywhere on the planet.

[GoKu.SaMa]

Trust me, we covered all that. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: we likely already tossed tons of research and backing-statements over to the ScrewAttack guys for anything and everything you think you can possibly bring to the table. Sure, there's probably some little thing here or there that we didn't touch upon, but in all seriousness... it's been covered, it was taken into consideration, and if it wasn't listed or talked about, it probably didn't make any difference when it came down to it.

For what it's worth...

Daizenshuu 6 lists Goku's usage of the Genki-Dama there in DBZ Movie 7 as being absorbed while he was unconscious:

Goku sprouts an evil heart when he becomes a Super Saiyan. Because of this, he becomes unable to use the Genki-dama, which is used with a just heart. But after transforming, Goku takes the energy of the vanishing Genki-dama into himself while unconscious. It could be said that this is a special attack only for Goku!!

Goku would likely have never used the Genki-dama against Superman if he truly understood that he was ALSO a good guy. In the "DEATH BATTLE!" version of fights, some of these feelings and inhibitions need to be stripped away just to get the two fighting in the first place (which is something we've already covered). Here, Goku just kinda attacks him with the tiniest little reason because... well... they needed the two of them to fight. I think it becomes obvious to Goku pretty quickly (both here in the "DEATH BATTLE!" video and also in every other hypothetical version of the fight that we all make up in our heads) that Superman's not a bad guy, so no, he would never try to use the Genki-dama.

And if he wasn't going to use the Genki-dama, he'd never have an opportunity to absorb it while unconscious to gain the extra power from it.

So Goku would have to PURPOSEFULLY create the Genki-dama -- which he would know he wouldn't be able to use in a standard way -- and then, on top of all that, get himself knocked unconscious, AND ON TOP OF THAT, hope that his body would figure out a way to absorb the energy from it.

That's one Hell of gamble, and I don't think it's one Goku would make.

Ok i think you are right about the Spirit Bomb .

But i still think Goku is stronger than Superman .