Gohan Strongest Unfused character.

[Zephyr]

I will also say that people who agree with Goku > Gohan have not just the manga, but the anime and daizenshuu to support them. All 3 sources fitting their view.

This has me morbidly curious though. How?

[Fox666]

deleted

[JeffJarrett]

Ssj3 Son Goku > Ultimate Gohan.

Might I ask how you've come to that conclusion?

DBZ Movie 13: Wrath of the Dragon + DBZ Movie 14: Battle of Gods now

[Fox666]

deleted

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

Ssj3 Son Goku > Ultimate Gohan.

Might I ask how you've come to that conclusion?

DBZ Movie 13: Wrath of the Dragon + DBZ Movie 14: Battle of Gods now

As far as we know, Ultimate Gohan isn't in Battle of Gods.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

DBZ Movie 13: Wrath of the Dragon

Gohan & Gotenks were caught by surprise by Hildegarn, and Goku could beat him only with his new & most powerful move, the Ryu-ken. He wasn't necessarily more powerful than Gohan & Gotenks.

DBZ Movie 14: Battle of Gods

Gohan doesn't have his Ultimate state there, and far as we know.

Dragon Ball GT.

That Goku wasn't Boo arc Goku.

[Fox666]

deleted

[MDSTSSJ]

DBZ Movie 13: Wrath of the Dragon

Gohan & Gotenks were caught by surprise by Hildegarn, and Goku could beat him only with his new & most powerful move, the Ryu-ken. He wasn't necessarily more powerful than Gohan & Gotenks.

Hello DBZGTKOSDH!!!

If we see the fight in the movie 13, one Hildegarn single punch defeat and separates Gotenks and Gohan Mystic gets a beating.

Kakarotto get a hit in his face and laughs and also he stops the other punches.

Mmm I don't remember how many years have passed between Boo saga and the movie 13 to give any other conclusions; but yes, not necessarily stronger than Gohan and Gotenks.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

As far as I'm concerned, Ultimate Gohan lost his powers here, so the Goku > Gohan theory only works in the not so trust worthy movie #13. But if your counting Buu Saga, theres really too many facts that favor Gohan. you can't deny him toying with Super Buu. He could have easily been destroyed. And let's not go into the Kid Buu > Super Buu theory either, that was debunked on like every forum on the internet.

And as mentioned countless times, movies are not canon to the original manga or even the Anime. Most of the movies are also slabbed right in the middle of the Cell saga / Buu Saga so these movies don't make any sense. the only movies that are canon are Bardock and Trunks movies.

And here's one example, remember Tree Of Might? That was a horrible movie, not to mention the story. This took place maybe a week after Goku defeated Vegeta, and Tien/Yamcha/Chaotsu are still on Earth even though they died in that battle with the saiyans. Don't think the movies can be any somewhat credible. Not saying you can't bring them up; I do like watching many of the movies myself and I admit that, but in a heated discussion on who is stronger, the movies will make a messy discussion.

And Piccolo being 18,000, Gohan being 10,000, and Goku being able to use Kaioken x20 before Namek Saga? Again, there's so many more examples I can pull out.

[VegettoEX]

I'm all good with the whole "Bardock and Trunks are the only ones that work," but if you're going to trout out the, "THEY'RE CANON!" statement, how exactly do you reconcile that "TRUNKS THE STORY" in the manga and the TV special are drastically different, specifically with Trunks' ability to turn into a Super Saiyan? 'Cuz, ya' know, Toriyama drew the former. That's the baseline for canonicity, right? Toriyama drew it? In the manga? During its original serialization?

That's why I talk about "no set canon", because even if you don't bring newer concoctions into the mix (like "Battle of Gods"), you still have things like the Trunks story and revised kanzenban ending that contradict and change themselves around all from Toriyama's literal pen-on-paper.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

I'm all good with the whole "Bardock and Trunks are the only ones that work," but if you're going to trout out the, "THEY'RE CANON!" statement, how exactly do you reconcile that "TRUNKS THE STORY" in the manga and the TV special are drastically different, specifically with Trunks' ability to turn into a Super Saiyan? 'Cuz, ya' know, Toriyama drew the former. That's the baseline for canonicity, right? Toriyama drew it? In the manga? During its original serialization?

That's why I talk about "no set canon", because even if you don't bring newer concoctions into the mix (like "Battle of Gods"), you still have things like the Trunks story and revised kanzenban ending that contradict and change themselves around all from Toriyama's literal pen-on-paper.

IMO, Trunks Story on the manga was rather short, maybe a few pages at most? I think it was good what they did with that movie because the audience gets a more wholesome, longer and interesting version of his story. They literally only show Gohan trying to make him super saiyan, he dies, Trunks gets mad, then uses the Time Machine. you would think the Anime would want to do more than that.

[VegettoEX]

Right. And that's totally fine.

Except then you're changing the definition most people use of "canon" ("Toriyama wrote it, and more specifically, wrote it first in the manga") to fit with what you like more instead of what reality is.

(Which, again, I don't even necessarily agree OR disagree with!)

[MDSTSSJ]

As far as I'm concerned, Ultimate Gohan lost his powers here, so the Goku > Gohan theory only works in the not so trust worthy movie #13. But if your counting Buu Saga, theres really too many facts that favor Gohan. you can't deny him toying with Super Buu. He could have easily been destroyed. And let's not go into the Kid Buu > Super Buu theory either, that was debunked on like every forum on the internet.

And as mentioned countless times, movies are not canon to the original manga or even the Anime. Most of the movies are also slabbed right in the middle of the Cell saga / Buu Saga so these movies don't make any sense. the only movies that are canon are Bardock and Trunks movies.

And here's one example, remember Tree Of Might? That was a horrible movie, not to mention the story. This took place maybe a week after Goku defeated Vegeta, and Tenshinhan/Yamcha/Krillin/Chaotsu are still on Earth even though they died in that battle with the saiyans. Don't think the movies can be any somewhat credible. Not saying you can't bring them up; I do like watching many of the movies myself and I admit that, but in a heated discussion on who is stronger, the movies will make a messy discussion.

And Piccolo being 18,000, Gohan being 10,000, and Goku being able to use Kaioken x20 before Namek Saga? Again, there's so many more examples I can pull out.

Like I say before my friend, Gohan is the most powerfull caracter in Boo saga. That's a fact!! In the very en of DBZ, things change.

I respect all opinions and even more people different tastes about DB but, I personally have always tried to connect the manga, the series, TV specials and the movies. They have many inconsistencies but, I also take them as alternative stories.

Tree Of Migth for mi it's not so bad because have something dark going on in the scenes and Tarles ( Kakarot's true Saiyan personality ).

http://www.VegettoEX.com/blog/2011/12/2 ... al-debate/

I totally agree with that very interesting opinion! " Agree OR disagree with " is the thing!

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

As far as I'm concerned, Ultimate Gohan lost his powers here, so the Goku > Gohan theory only works in the not so trust worthy movie #13. But if your counting Buu Saga, theres really too many facts that favor Gohan. you can't deny him toying with Super Buu. He could have easily been destroyed. And let's not go into the Kid Buu > Super Buu theory either, that was debunked on like every forum on the internet.

And as mentioned countless times, movies are not canon to the original manga or even the Anime. Most of the movies are also slabbed right in the middle of the Cell saga / Buu Saga so these movies don't make any sense. the only movies that are canon are Bardock and Trunks movies.

And here's one example, remember Tree Of Might? That was a horrible movie, not to mention the story. This took place maybe a week after Goku defeated Vegeta, and Tenshinhan/Yamcha/Krillin/Chaotsu are still on Earth even though they died in that battle with the saiyans. Don't think the movies can be any somewhat credible. Not saying you can't bring them up; I do like watching many of the movies myself and I admit that, but in a heated discussion on who is stronger, the movies will make a messy discussion.

And Piccolo being 18,000, Gohan being 10,000, and Goku being able to use Kaioken x20 before Namek Saga? Again, there's so many more examples I can pull out.

Like I say before my friend, Gohan is the most powerfull caracter in Boo saga. That's a fact!! In the very en of DBZ, things change.

I respect all opinions and even more people different tastes about DB but, I personally have always tried to connect the manga, the series, TV specials and the movies. They have many inconsistencies but, I also take them as alternative stories.

Tree Of Migth for mi it's not so bad because have something dark going on in the scenes and Tarles ( Kakarot's true Saiyan personality ).

http://www.VegettoEX.com/blog/2011/12/2 ... al-debate/

I totally agree with that very interesting opinion! " Agree OR disagree with " is the thing!

I never said Gohan wasn't the strongest, I always agreed he was the strongest Unfused character in the Buu saga. But he lost this power because hes lazy. ^_^

[MDSTSSJ]

As far as I'm concerned, Ultimate Gohan lost his powers here, so the Goku > Gohan theory only works in the not so trust worthy movie #13. But if your counting Buu Saga, theres really too many facts that favor Gohan. you can't deny him toying with Super Buu. He could have easily been destroyed. And let's not go into the Kid Buu > Super Buu theory either, that was debunked on like every forum on the internet.

And as mentioned countless times, movies are not canon to the original manga or even the Anime. Most of the movies are also slabbed right in the middle of the Cell saga / Buu Saga so these movies don't make any sense. the only movies that are canon are Bardock and Trunks movies.

And here's one example, remember Tree Of Might? That was a horrible movie, not to mention the story. This took place maybe a week after Goku defeated Vegeta, and Tenshinhan/Yamcha/Krillin/Chaotsu are still on Earth even though they died in that battle with the saiyans. Don't think the movies can be any somewhat credible. Not saying you can't bring them up; I do like watching many of the movies myself and I admit that, but in a heated discussion on who is stronger, the movies will make a messy discussion.

And Piccolo being 18,000, Gohan being 10,000, and Goku being able to use Kaioken x20 before Namek Saga? Again, there's so many more examples I can pull out.

Like I say before my friend, Gohan is the most powerfull caracter in Boo saga. That's a fact!! In the very en of DBZ, things change.

I respect all opinions and even more people different tastes about DB but, I personally have always tried to connect the manga, the series, TV specials and the movies. They have many inconsistencies but, I also take them as alternative stories.

Tree Of Migth for mi it's not so bad because have something dark going on in the scenes and Tarles ( Kakarot's true Saiyan personality ).

http://www.VegettoEX.com/blog/2011/12/2 ... al-debate/

I totally agree with that very interesting opinion! " Agree OR disagree with " is the thing!

I never said Gohan wasn't the strongest, I always agreed he was the strongest Unfused character in the Buu saga. But he lost this power because hes lazy. ^_^

sorry, I misunderstood you!!

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If we see the fight in the movie 13, one Hildegarn single punch defeat and separates Gotenks and Gohan Mystic gets a beating.

Kakarotto get a hit in his face and laughs and also he stops the other punches.

Hildegarn wasn't a normal enemy, since he was powerful, huge, and had that ability that wasn't allowing the Z-Senshi to drop any good hits on him, until Goku discovered his weakness in the end. Now, as for the hits that Gotenks, Gohan, and Goku got:

Gotenks was surprised from Hildegarn's transformation, and Hildegarn rushed at him, charged a punch, and gave him a powerful hit.
Gohan wasn't paying attention to Hildegarn, because he was worried about Goten & Trunks, when suddenly Hildegarn grabbed & squashed Gohan when he wasn't expecting it.
Goku had just discovered Hildegarn's weakness, and unlike Gotenks & Gohan, he was fully ready to take the hits (the hits were also weaker than the ones the other two got, since he didn't get a rushed, charged punch or got squashed by the tail, he just got hit by some normal punches), and if you pay attention, you will notice that Goku was taking damage from Hildegarn's hits, but was trying a lot to withstand him because "if he doesn't, who will?".

[MDSTSSJ]

If we see the fight in the movie 13, one Hildegarn single punch defeat and separates Gotenks and Gohan Mystic gets a beating.

Kakarotto get a hit in his face and laughs and also he stops the other punches.

Hildegarn wasn't a normal enemy, since he was powerful, huge, and had that ability that wasn't allowing the Z-Senshi to drop any good hits on him, until Goku discovered his weakness in the end. Now, as for the hits that Gotenks, Gohan, and Goku got:

Gotenks was surprised from Hildegarn's transformation, and Hildegarn rushed at him, charged a punch, and gave him a powerful hit.
Gohan wasn't paying attention to Hildegarn, because he was worried about Goten & Trunks, when suddenly Hildegarn grabbed & squashed Gohan when he wasn't expecting it.
Goku had just discovered Hildegarn's weakness, and unlike Gotenks & Gohan, he was fully ready to take the hits (the hits were also weaker than the ones the other two got, since he didn't get a rushed, charged punch or got squashed by the tail, he just got hit by some normal punches), and if you pay attention, you will notice that Goku was taking damage from Hildegarn's hits, but was trying a lot to withstand him because "if he doesn't, who will?".

Yes, I totally agree with almost everything except " normal punches ". One thing is be fully ready to take Hildegarn hits and other thing is hit by surprised! Also Kakarotto encourages Hildegarn to hit him very hard as we can see and he stops the two last very hard punches.

In that movie, Kakarotto was chosen to defeat Hildegarn and he have enough power to do that. Mystic Gohan or Gotenks, also have the power to defeat him.

[Rocketman]

The movies always inflate Goku's power, though. Vegeta should be the strongest character in movies 5,6,7 and 8.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Vegeta should be the strongest character in movies 5,6,7 and 8.

Vegeta didn't appear in Movie 5, and in Movie 8, he was a Super Saiyan Grade 2, while Goku was a Super Saiyan Full Power, and even though Goku probably wasn't as powerful as he was during the Cell Games, I can still see him stronger than Vegeta before his 2nd day inside the RoSaT.

As for Movies 6 & 7, I haven't watched them recently so I don't remember if Goku was portrayed as the strongest of the two, but Goku & Vegeta defeated Coola together, and Merged #13 was defeated by SS Goku after absorbing a Genki Dama.

[GoKu.SaMa]

Goku became the strongest 10 years after defeating Buu .