Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
Legendary Saiya-Jin wrote:Gohan is a half-SSJ God in Ultimate form. Gokuu will be the result of Elder Kaioushin unlocking and expanding his dormant power into a pure SSJ God.
My question is; how come Goku still has Gold hair; and a new "transformation" while in Gohan's case, just black hair and a more mature looking face? I have a feeling this is not even related to Elder Kai unlocking....
Plus if Goku has a tail; something else must have went on prior to the God form.
"Lord Beers, what are those?? Do they taste like root beer?" ~ Goku
Legendary Saiya-Jin wrote:Because he's a pure Saiya-Jin and Gohan's not.
That might just explain it. Isn't there also some information like half-saiyans not capable of going SSJ3? (Gotenks did, but remember thats a fusion, equivalent to a whole saiyan)
But its weird though; saiyans with less saiyan blood tend to be more powerful (I.E. Gohan vs. 2nd Frieza, or vs. Raditz lol) so why would they also be less capable of new transformations even though they are stronger? This I have yet to find out.
"Lord Beers, what are those?? Do they taste like root beer?" ~ Goku
I kind of hope he does get his tail back for this form. >_> Adult Goku with his tail (and not in ssj4) would be nice to see imo. I felt kinda cheated with it in GT where the only base-form Goku with tail that I got was at the very end of the series and the very end of the last ED animation.
Legendary Saiya-Jin wrote:Because he's a pure Saiya-Jin and Gohan's not.
That might just explain it. Isn't there also some information like half-saiyans not capable of going SSJ3? (Gotenks did, but remember thats a fusion, equivalent to a whole saiyan)
But its weird though; saiyans with less saiyan blood tend to be more powerful (I.E. Gohan vs. 2nd Freeza, or vs. Raditz lol) so why would they also be less capable of new transformations even though they are stronger? This I have yet to find out.
Gotenks is still half saiyan. The whole pure bloods only is a stupid fan theory. Gotenks does not magically lose his human half. It doesn't state in the Daizenshuu or anywhere that SSJ3 is exclusively for full bloods. SSJ4 on the other hand may be full bloods only. The only line that supports that was when Bulma said Baby was interfering with his SSJ4 transformation. That may mean full bloods only or that tuffle dna doesn't mix well with saiyan.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Gotenks is also a magical manifestation of ki, apparently. So maybe he is pure Saiya-Jin, or can simply go SSJ3, because that's what Goten and Trunks /needed/ him to be the same way he can make living ghosts.
And based on the fact that neither Goten or Trunks could ascend beyond SSJ1 by themselves, this means Gogeta can easily go SSJ3. Vegeta doesn't have to be SSJ3 for that to happen, seeing how Gotenks also was not as strained or tired as Goku was using it himself. Although that did shorten the fusion down to 5 minutes from the total 30.
"Lord Beers, what are those?? Do they taste like root beer?" ~ Goku
Trunks did it in heroes. Gotenks is still half human and his fusion did not just suddenly break the rules. Half breeds can go SSJ3.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
I'm not sure what Heroes is nor if it's canon, but, Fusion Dance'd warriors could arguably be exceptions to "normal" fighters; they are not born out of normal circumstances and it seems they have magical properties to them. So I think it can still be said that whether Human-Saiya-Jin hybrids can utilise SSJ3 is still up for debate.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Trunks did it in heroes. Gotenks is still half human and his fusion did not just suddenly break the rules. Half breeds can go SSJ3.
Sure, but this was by the time Trunks was at least an adult. That gave him plenty of time to use any form. But when Trunks and Goten were children, SSJ1 was their full extent, seperately. But then they were able to skip SSJ2 when fused... very peculiar. Could be because hybrid fusions are more effective than full blood fusions? So many questions.. lol
"Lord Beers, what are those?? Do they taste like root beer?" ~ Goku
I repeat it's a stupid fan theory with no basis. No where in the SSJ3 description in any guide book does it say you need to be a full saiyan. If that detail is true, then why isn't it mentioned anywhere in the daizenshuu or SEG. That's because it isn't true. It's not even mentioned in Gotenks description that he is a full saiyan. Human halves don't randomly disappear. He is clearly half saiyan. That also explains why SSJ3 is probably easier for him then Goku as well as being a fusion. Half Saiyans develop quicker than full Saiyans when they actually put effort into their training.
Last edited by dbzfan7 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:I repeat it's a stupid fan theory with no basis. No where in the SSJ3 description in any guide book does it say you need to be a full saiyan. If that detail is true, then why isn't it mentioned anywhere in the daizenshuu or SEG. That's because it isn't true. It's not even mentioned in Gotenks description that he is a full saiyan. Human halves don't randomly disappear. He is clearly half saiyan. That also explains why SSJ3 is probably easier for him then Goku as well as being a fusion. Half Saiyans develop quicker than full Saiyans when they actually put effort into their training.
Yes. If Gohan had actually spent every waking day with training (especially doing what Vegeta did with 450x gravity) then he probably could have reached SSJ3 before Goku did. But NO he had to stick his face in those stupid books. Darn Chi-Chi. What did she do??? ^_^
"Lord Beers, what are those?? Do they taste like root beer?" ~ Goku
dbzfan7 wrote:I repeat it's a stupid fan theory with no basis. No where in the SSJ3 description in any guide book does it say you need to be a full saiyan. If that detail is true, then why isn't it mentioned anywhere in the daizenshuu or SEG. That's because it isn't true. It's not even mentioned in Gotenks description that he is a full saiyan. Human halves don't randomly disappear. He is clearly half saiyan. That also explains why SSJ3 is probably easier for him then Goku as well as being a fusion. Half Saiyans develop quicker than full Saiyans when they actually put effort into their training.
Yes. If Gohan had actually spent every waking day with training (especially doing what Vegeta did with 450x gravity) then he probably could have reached SSJ3 before Goku did. But NO he had to stick his face in those stupid books. Darn Chi-Chi. What did she do??? ^_^
She sheltered Gohan away from fighting as much a possible. I say Goku should have struck a deal and had Training time and study time. Over studying can cause you to lose some of what you learned so Gohan should balance studying and training. That way he could keep his power/ increase it and study for learning purposes.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Oh come on!!! Chi Chi´s fault? Not at all, just from the beginning to Boo´s arc.
Gohan is half human and is normal to think that he have his own human personality, other thoughts, aspirations, interests, etc. Pure Saiyans only lives for the way of the fighting and be more and more powerful!!
Dragon Ball Online shows that all the study Gohan did eventually benefitted all of mankind, as he popularized martial arts and made everyone and their dog able to comprehend the concept of ki thanks to his books.
If he had just trained all his life without studying, he would have maybe founded one martial art school and trained a few people at most -- he wouldn't have been able to reach as many people as he did with his books.
Every time I hear that Super Saiyan 3 is for full-blood Saiyans and that Gotenks is a full-blood Saiyan as well... I want to shoot myself.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
