Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

[dbzfan7]

Gather sufficient information to show That we need not use DBGT against pre-crisis, because is a exaggeration. Herms translated a guide with an information That says that vegito is more strong than a ssj4. imagine a Vegito ssj4, could be even more powerful than the ssj4 gogeta.

we want to see the movie of dbz to see the upgrade that goku will win with the ssjg.

SSJG may make a difference, but as it stands now post crisis is really better starting point then pre-crisis.

[dario03]

1 - Goku has never ever shown any form of physical strength that could let him move a planet. His best showings are lifting up part of a city which might of been small and struggling to hold up a large building with Vegeta, both done as a SS4. That is absolutely nothing compared to the whole planet.

2 - I would say he is, by a lot.

3 - We don't know if a 2x battle power actually makes you 2x as strong and we especially don't know if it makes you 2x as strong, fast, durable. Evidence would say that lifting strength definitely doesn't go up that much.

4 - Goku doesn't know that Superman is powered by the sun and I don't see him being capable of stopping Superman any ways.

Basically this just comes down to feats. Superman has shown physical strength far far far greater than Goku and since Goku is hurt by people at his own strength level I really don't see how Goku could survive a hit from Superman or Superman flat out just crushing him. Goku may have shown more powerful energy blasts but Superman has survived blasts like that and has actually shown that he is faster than light speed where as with Goku we just think he is based on some math that if used for Superman would still show Superman being faster.

1-I don't discuss about Gt because evey thing in Gt is wrong .
2-Why do u think Superman is faster than Goku ?
3-I will talk about that later .
4-Goku is capable of sensing the ki energy , so he will notice that superman's power is increasing while he is flying , and he can stop him by the teleport technique.

1. Well then he doesn't have SS4 and his best strength feat.

2. I already covered that on the last page
"I covered Superman's extreme showings of speed earlier in the thread, basically the biggest things that I brought up was when he went from Pluto to Earth and found some people in probably about 30 seconds to a minute (it doesn't specify a time but the people only had a short conversation) and Pluto is around 5 light hours away give or take. And another time he went from the Vega system to Earth in probably a couple of minutes (again doesn't specify but there is a emergency and no response personal had shown up before Superman) and thats 25 light years (that comes out to millions of times faster than light). And if we are being very generous we can say that Superman is usually almost as fast as the Flash (which he usually is) and the Flash once evacuated over 500,000 people from a city before a exploding nuclear bomb could hurt them (the math worked out to being well over 8,000,000,000,000 times the speed of light)."

4. Thats assuming Goku can sense Superman's power. Superman isn't powered like the Z fighters and Goku couldn't sense the strength of androids so I think it is perfectly fine to think that Goku wouldn't sense Superman's strength. It would probably be hard to lock onto Superman if he was going super fast since like I said Goku might only be able to sense Superman's power as being around a normal human. But really the big point is that I don't think Goku is strong enough to stop Superman, actually I don't see any reason for Superman to be Sun dipping in the first place.

[Rocketman]

An exploding star is a supernova. That is literally the definition.

Depends on the star. the sun or a star dwarf not produce a supernova. as said SlimJ87D: "supernovae lasts days."

Wrong. An exploding star is a supernova. "SlimJ87D" can piss up a rope.

The Sun and dwarf stars don't produce supernovae because they are too small to explode naturally. If something were to make them explode, somehow, then it would be a supernova, because a supernova is an exploding star.

I literally cannot make this any clearer than the definition of the word. If you don't accept what words mean and get to make up your own tomfoolery, then the entire debate is devoid of substance.

[TonyTheTiger]

I knew this was going to happen the second Super Saiyan God was announced. People sitting there just itching to use it to overturn the Death Battle. But isn't that a little...oh, I dunno...desperate? What's the endgame here? To use this new form (which we currently know nothing about, by the way) as an excuse to discard two months worth of research done by experts on both sides for the sole purpose of saying "ha ha, now Goku is stronger"?

[valfranx]

An exploding star is a supernova. That is literally the definition.

Depends on the star. the sun or a star dwarf not produce a supernova. as said SlimJ87D: "supernovae lasts days."

Wrong. An exploding star is a supernova. "SlimJ87D" can piss up a rope.

The Sun and dwarf stars don't produce supernovae because they are too small to explode naturally. If something were to make them explode, somehow, then it would be a supernova, because a supernova is an exploding star.

I literally cannot make this any clearer than the definition of the word. If you don't accept what words mean and get to make up your own tomfoolery, then the entire debate is devoid of substance.

On one part is truth, however, depends on the star.

the sun= create a nova

Supernova regular:

Supernova is the name given to the heavenly bodies arising after the explosions of stars (estimate) with more than 10 solar masses, which produce extremely bright objects, which decline until they become invisible after a few weeks or months. In just a few days its brightness may intensify at 1 billion times from its original state, making the star as bright as a galaxy, but, over time, its temperature and brightness decreases until a degree lower than the former.

the sun= create a nova

Conclusion: the sun / dwarf star exploding =//=Star creating a Supernova.

supernova:


Superman KOed by a nova of a small star. Just imagine a supernova.

as the SlimJ87D said about the explosion of a dwarf star, not would not be considered on the same level of the true supernova, more a nova, or as want called a "supernova" of a small star, that not is even impressive.

Lol, calm down dude, I won't be calling you out it was a joke. But it's something I'm using to discredit how screwattack measures durability with explosions. I was busy writing something up and coincidentally our discussion related to it. As for your supernova feats, I don't get how that applies because my argument is not that the Hulk would kill Superman but it would knock him out if he took it at full force. Superman survived yes. But he still got knocked out. It does not mean one has to create a supernova to knock the man of steel out.

Earlier I showed you Flash knocking out a white martian and zoom who all have similar durability to Superman. There he equates it to the energy of a white dwarf star. The Flash is dozens of times faster than Superman, we both know this. The Flash punches with much greater force than Superman, we know this. So if Flash IMP Superman, it's believable that it too would knock him out.

The Hulk again indirectly destroyed a planet with a sonic boom. What is a supernova? A sonic boom of gamma radiation and other cosmic type rays! When Superman survives a Supernova, he is not surviving the entire energy of the star, lets make that clear. He is surviving the amount of energy in a cubic feet of his own volume. You have to take into account that Superman will also be blown further away from the supernova weakening it's energy output. In the feat I showed you with the Hulk, again, he caused a gamma sonic boom that caused the destruction of a planet. I can't currently do the math for you because honestly, I have things to do.

Well now you should already have an understanding on what is a supernova, may have drawee that a huge supernova of a star and something far more lethal than a "supernova" created by a small star, not is, bacause the comic is saying that the a little star creates a supernova, not that say that creates a supernova in the same lethal power of a supernova that hard for days.

[TonyTheTiger]

Superman KOed by a nova of a small star.

What a wuss, right?

[dario03]

Superman KOed by a nova of a small star.

What a wuss, right?

Yeah I mean I tank a medium star nova everyday. Its how I wake up in the morning.

[Gonstead]

Superman KOed by a nova of a small star.

What a wuss, right?

Yeah I mean I tank a medium star nova everyday. Its how I wake up in the morning.

And who do you think creates those supernova's when they wake up every morning?

*whistle*

[Bussani]

More and not quite the case here, the context here is different. in the context superman can not warm the planet with its own power or can not increase the width of your HV has proved useless in the attempt at destroying planets with HV

I'm sorry, but I don't understand you here.

Why do u think Superman is faster than Goku ?

Because your math doesn't fit with the feats in the story. Goku has never displayed the sort of speed your math thinks he should have, nor have any of the characters who are much stronger than Goku. Superman, on the other hand, has.

Feats mean more to me than linear fan-math that doesn't fit with those feats.

[GoKu.SaMa]

1 - Goku has never ever shown any form of physical strength that could let him move a planet. His best showings are lifting up part of a city which might of been small and struggling to hold up a large building with Vegeta, both done as a SS4. That is absolutely nothing compared to the whole planet.

2 - I would say he is, by a lot.

3 - We don't know if a 2x battle power actually makes you 2x as strong and we especially don't know if it makes you 2x as strong, fast, durable. Evidence would say that lifting strength definitely doesn't go up that much.

4 - Goku doesn't know that Superman is powered by the sun and I don't see him being capable of stopping Superman any ways.

Basically this just comes down to feats. Superman has shown physical strength far far far greater than Goku and since Goku is hurt by people at his own strength level I really don't see how Goku could survive a hit from Superman or Superman flat out just crushing him. Goku may have shown more powerful energy blasts but Superman has survived blasts like that and has actually shown that he is faster than light speed where as with Goku we just think he is based on some math that if used for Superman would still show Superman being faster.

1-I don't discuss about Gt because evey thing in Gt is wrong .
2-Why do u think Superman is faster than Goku ?
3-I will talk about that later .
4-Goku is capable of sensing the ki energy , so he will notice that superman's power is increasing while he is flying , and he can stop him by the teleport technique.

1. Well then he doesn't have SS4 and his best strength feat.

2. I already covered that on the last page
"I covered Superman's extreme showings of speed earlier in the thread, basically the biggest things that I brought up was when he went from Pluto to Earth and found some people in probably about 30 seconds to a minute (it doesn't specify a time but the people only had a short conversation) and Pluto is around 5 light hours away give or take. And another time he went from the Vega system to Earth in probably a couple of minutes (again doesn't specify but there is a emergency and no response personal had shown up before Superman) and thats 25 light years (that comes out to millions of times faster than light). And if we are being very generous we can say that Superman is usually almost as fast as the Flash (which he usually is) and the Flash once evacuated over 500,000 people from a city before a exploding nuclear bomb could hurt them (the math worked out to being well over 8,000,000,000,000 times the speed of light)."

4. Thats assuming Goku can sense Superman's power. Superman isn't powered like the Z fighters and Goku couldn't sense the strength of androids so I think it is perfectly fine to think that Goku wouldn't sense Superman's strength. It would probably be hard to lock onto Superman if he was going super fast since like I said Goku might only be able to sense Superman's power as being around a normal human. But really the big point is that I don't think Goku is strong enough to stop Superman, actually I don't see any reason for Superman to be Sun dipping in the first place.

1-There is nothing wrong with SSJ4 , but about Goku having a hard time lifting a bulding ....

2-I did a fast search but i didn't read anything about that , in which chapter did all of that happen ?

superman is not as fast as Flash .

4-Superman is not an android , and in the video we all saw Goku sensing Superman's energy + even if what you are saying is right , Goku will notice that superman' speed is increasing

--------

[GoKu.SaMa]

More and not quite the case here, the context here is different. in the context superman can not warm the planet with its own power or can not increase the width of your HV has proved useless in the attempt at destroying planets with HV

I'm sorry, but I don't understand you here.

Why do u think Superman is faster than Goku ?

Because your math doesn't fit with the feats in the story. Goku has never displayed the sort of speed your math thinks he should have, nor have any of the characters who are much stronger than Goku. Superman, on the other hand, has.

Feats mean more to me than linear fan-math that doesn't fit with those feats.

Like Screwattacks i did the math depending on the Snake Road .

------------
At that time Goku's battle power was 308 ,and it took from him 6 months to reach the end of the Snake Road.
After training with King kai , Goku's battle power increased to 8,000 (x26) , and he spend two days to reach the end of the road,so he became 90 times faster than he was before , and that means the first type of lightning is 43.6 times faster than Goku's speed at that time ,so when Goku's battle power increased to 116,266 he became as fast as the first type of lightning ,and when his battle power increased to 155,021,333 he became as fast as the second type of lightning, and when his battle power increased to 465,063,999 he became as fast as the light ,so if base Goku's battle power was x3.8 Freeza's battle power then Goku is 4000 times faster than the light , and i am sure Goku is much faster than that .

[Gonstead]

superman is not as fast as Flash .

[dario03]

1. Well then he doesn't have SS4 and his best strength feat.

2. I already covered that on the last page
"I covered Superman's extreme showings of speed earlier in the thread, basically the biggest things that I brought up was when he went from Pluto to Earth and found some people in probably about 30 seconds to a minute (it doesn't specify a time but the people only had a short conversation) and Pluto is around 5 light hours away give or take. And another time he went from the Vega system to Earth in probably a couple of minutes (again doesn't specify but there is a emergency and no response personal had shown up before Superman) and thats 25 light years (that comes out to millions of times faster than light). And if we are being very generous we can say that Superman is usually almost as fast as the Flash (which he usually is) and the Flash once evacuated over 500,000 people from a city before a exploding nuclear bomb could hurt them (the math worked out to being well over 8,000,000,000,000 times the speed of light)."

4. Thats assuming Goku can sense Superman's power. Superman isn't powered like the Z fighters and Goku couldn't sense the strength of androids so I think it is perfectly fine to think that Goku wouldn't sense Superman's strength. It would probably be hard to lock onto Superman if he was going super fast since like I said Goku might only be able to sense Superman's power as being around a normal human. But really the big point is that I don't think Goku is strong enough to stop Superman, actually I don't see any reason for Superman to be Sun dipping in the first place.

1-There is nothing wrong with SSJ4 , but about Goku having a hard time lifting a bulding ....

2-I did a fast search but i didn't read anything about that , in which chapter did all of that happen ?

superman is not as fast as Flash .

4-Superman is not an android , and in the video we all saw Goku sensing Superman's energy + even if what you are saying is right , Goku will notice that superman' speed is increasing

--------

1. Why is that a problem? Goku had trouble holding up 40 tons in base form when he was dead for 7 years. That building might of been 2-300,000 tons.

2. I don't recall where the other 2 examples are from off the top of my head but the Vega example is from Countdown 48. Basically Jimmy Olsen rushes outside because theres something strange going on up in the sky, as he is leaving the Daily Planet building he signals Superman with his signal watch, then Jimmy quickly saves a couple of people (because he starts having super powers for some reason), and while he is talking to them a new god crashes down nearby, Jimmy walks over and then Superman shows up and says "Sorry I'm late I was out near Vega when I got your ---". So basically your looking at lightyears travelled in minutes. And I already said that Superman isn't usually as fast as the Flash but he is close and even if he wasn't and was only 1/1,000,000th as fast as the Flash he would still be well over 8000x faster than the speed of light if we do the math.

4. You mean that video that you are disagreeing with? If you're going to use the death battle video to prove that Goku can sense Supermans power then we can just say that Superman is faster, stronger, and more durable because thats what they said. And so what if Superman isn't a android, 17 and 18 are just modified Humans not full on robots but none of the Z fighters could sense their power. I would say its because their power is different than the ki that Goku is used to and so is Superman's power. But again I don't think that matters any ways because personally I think Superman wouldn't need a sun dip to beat Goku and if he wanted to go for a dip he would despite Goku's efforts.

[jjgp1112]

I don't understand why it's so difficult to accept that Goku isn't the strongest dude ever.

Couldn't have said it better myself. So he's not the best thing at everything, so what? Will it hurt fandom dick measuring contests or something?

[GoKu.SaMa]

superman is not as fast as Flash .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLunw4lPi7Y

1. Well then he doesn't have SS4 and his best strength feat.

2. I already covered that on the last page
"I covered Superman's extreme showings of speed earlier in the thread, basically the biggest things that I brought up was when he went from Pluto to Earth and found some people in probably about 30 seconds to a minute (it doesn't specify a time but the people only had a short conversation) and Pluto is around 5 light hours away give or take. And another time he went from the Vega system to Earth in probably a couple of minutes (again doesn't specify but there is a emergency and no response personal had shown up before Superman) and thats 25 light years (that comes out to millions of times faster than light). And if we are being very generous we can say that Superman is usually almost as fast as the Flash (which he usually is) and the Flash once evacuated over 500,000 people from a city before a exploding nuclear bomb could hurt them (the math worked out to being well over 8,000,000,000,000 times the speed of light)."

4. Thats assuming Goku can sense Superman's power. Superman isn't powered like the Z fighters and Goku couldn't sense the strength of androids so I think it is perfectly fine to think that Goku wouldn't sense Superman's strength. It would probably be hard to lock onto Superman if he was going super fast since like I said Goku might only be able to sense Superman's power as being around a normal human. But really the big point is that I don't think Goku is strong enough to stop Superman, actually I don't see any reason for Superman to be Sun dipping in the first place.

1-There is nothing wrong with SSJ4 , but about Goku having a hard time lifting a bulding ....

2-I did a fast search but i didn't read anything about that , in which chapter did all of that happen ?

superman is not as fast as Flash .

4-Superman is not an android , and in the video we all saw Goku sensing Superman's energy + even if what you are saying is right , Goku will notice that superman' speed is increasing

--------

1. Why is that a problem? Goku had trouble holding up 40 tons in base form when he was dead for 7 years. That building might of been 2-300,000 tons.

2. I don't recall where the other 2 examples are from off the top of my head but the Vega example is from Countdown 48. Basically Jimmy Olsen rushes outside because theres something strange going on up in the sky, as he is leaving the Daily Planet building he signals Superman with his signal watch, then Jimmy quickly saves a couple of people (because he starts having super powers for some reason), and while he is talking to them a new god crashes down nearby, Jimmy walks over and then Superman shows up and says "Sorry I'm late I was out near Vega when I got your ---". So basically your looking at lightyears travelled in minutes. And I already said that Superman isn't usually as fast as the Flash but he is close and even if he wasn't and was only 1/1,000,000th as fast as the Flash he would still be well over 8000x faster than the speed of light if we do the math.

4. You mean that video that you are disagreeing with? If you're going to use the death battle video to prove that Goku can sense Supermans power then we can just say that Superman is faster, stronger, and more durable because thats what they said. And so what if Superman isn't a android, 17 and 18 are just modified Humans not full on robots but none of the Z fighters could sense their power. I would say its because their power is different than the ki that Goku is used to and so is Superman's power. But again I don't think that matters any ways because personally I think Superman wouldn't need a sun dip to beat Goku and if he wanted to go for a dip he would despite Goku's efforts.

1-It was 400 tons + at that time Goku was more than 4000 times stronger than he was before .

2-I couldn't find the chapter .

4-We can take the right informations only , it's simple 17 and 18 are androids but Superman is not , so why can't they sense his energy ?

and as i said before Goku will notice that superman's speed is increasing .

[TonyTheTiger]

I can understand Goku supporters not knowing much about Superman. If all they know about the guy comes from Christopher Reeve and the animated series it makes sense they'd underestimate him, so those misconceptions don't bother me. What does tend to bug the shit out of me is when Goku supporters don't seem to know a whole lot about Dragon Ball and challenge two months worth of research done by not just the Death Battle creators but like three or four different people who live and breathe the material. It's just weird to me to see people try to argue that Freeza at some ridiculously low percentage of power can kill Supes even after being informed of some of the crazier things Superman has survived. I don't even think it's a dub issue. It's like there are two completely different Dragon Balls floating around and half of us missed the one in which Freeza farted solar systems out of existence and Goku bench presses galaxies at base.

I don't understand why it's so difficult to accept that Goku isn't the strongest dude ever.

Couldn't have said it better myself. So he's not the best thing at everything, so what? Will it hurt fandom dick measuring contests or something?

What's funny is that I happen to think that if Goku were that strong it would wreck the story. Any kind of power upgrade that gives Goku Superman-like durability, for instance, would cause more problems than it solves. Hell, he's arguably already too strong given some people's opinions on the Buu saga and GT.

[GetGone899]

I don't understand why it's so difficult to accept that Goku isn't the strongest dude ever.

Couldn't have said it better myself. So he's not the best thing at everything, so what? Will it hurt fandom dick measuring contests or something?

I can understand Goku supporters not knowing much about Superman. If all they know about the guy comes from Christopher Reeve and the animated series it makes sense they'd underestimate him, so those misconceptions don't bother me. What does tend to bug the shit out of me is when Goku supporters don't seem to know a whole lot about Dragon Ball and challenge two months worth of research done by not just the Death Battle creators but like three or four different people who live and breathe the material. It's just weird to me to see people try to argue that Freeza at some ridiculously low percentage of power can kill Supes even after being informed of some of the crazier things Superman has survived. I don't even think it's a dub issue. It's like there are two completely different Dragon Balls floating around and half of us missed the one in which Freeza farted solar systems out of existence and Goku bench presses galaxies at base.

I don't understand why it's so difficult to accept that Goku isn't the strongest dude ever.

Couldn't have said it better myself. So he's not the best thing at everything, so what? Will it hurt fandom dick measuring contests or something?

What's funny is that I happen to think that if Goku were that strong it would wreck the story. Any kind of power upgrade that gives Goku Superman-like durability, for instance, would cause more problems than it solves. Hell, he's arguably already too strong given some people's opinions on the Buu saga and GT.

I think the point you're all missing is that Goku was underestimated by Screw Attack and that Goku is supposed to one of the the best fighters in the Dragon Ball Z universe, not to mention an icon. Herms already translated information confirming Cell's supernova/ destroy the solar system statement is true, yet Screw Attack insists their fan made gravity formula is the perfect solution. Fans of Dragon Ball Z feel cheated and they were. 10 octillion megatons, Superman's level, is suggested to be the same level Cell had reached in the Cell Saga. Consider how much stronger a Super Saiyan 2 is than that. Then consider how Super Saiyan 3 is 4 times that level and then a Super Saiyan 4 is 10 times that. Goku, based on what the author suggested, should be hundreds of octillions of megatons. Then people use their own formulas and calculations to say Goku doesn't have the energy. People do this knowing full well the whole point of Dragon Ball Z is "I can blow up the bigger object and destroy more than you." It's absurd. Superman fans even say no one in Dragon Ball Z can destroy a planet and that they're only core busters. People are tired of Goku being low balled like that. It's like no one believes in him or what he can do. Not to mention Superman has had embarrassing losses to characters much weaker than Goku, yet supposedly Superman will always one shot Goku. It's impossible, not true, and irritating as a Dragon Ball fan. I've had Superman fans tell me that Frieza did not survive Namek exploding, for real, I've been told that. They said Kid Buu's weak little attack killed Gohan so he can't survive an exploding planet. They ignore how much "ki" Kid Buu has and think Cell can't even destroy a planet. I've actually been told that in arguments several times.

[TheMightyOzaru]

All we know is Herms translation suggest that Cell actually can destroy the solar system but that can mean a lot of things. Yes at bare minimum his output would have to be 165 septillion megatons, therefore invalidating their thoughts in Goku's maximum output, but people are again forgetting that Superman is only limited to what the author wants. He can have Superman kill pre retcon Beyonder if he wanted to.

[VegettoEX]

Even if Goku was "underestimated" by a magnitude of ANY NUMBER, the result would very likely have been the same.

C'mon, guys. The biggest, most knowledgeable Dragon Ball fans from across the world helped on the research for the Goku side of this project/video, and we're all completely fine with the result. Please take the hint.

[GetGone899]

Even if Goku was "underestimated" by a magnitude of ANY NUMBER, the result would very likely have been the same.

C'mon, guys. The biggest, most knowledgeable Dragon Ball fans from across the world helped on the research for the Goku side of this project/video, and we're all completely fine with the result. Please take the hint.

Be honest, are we wrong for thinking Cell can really create a supernova with his energy? I'm not arguing, just wondering.Cause maybe all the time I've spent arguing is for nothing.