Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 16; Still Unreleased

[penguintruth]

There's never been a good English voice for Tenshinhan.

Hirotaka Suzouki was very stand out for me, but maybe because I'm a Gundam fan and I can always recognize Bright Noa. The newer guy (also the voice of 16) is okay, but no Suzuoki.

[El Diabeetus]

When watching the Japanese version it is pronounced bu-l-ma (bool-mah) or some would prefer bu-ru-ma instead.

I wonder how much of that is just Japanese accents, though? Sometimes it's hard to tell. 'Cause if we're to interpret things strictly from how the words are pronounced in Japan, then "Dragon Ball Z" should be "Doragon Boru Zetto," "Vegeta" should be "Beijita," and "Freeza" should be "Furiza." Sometimes I wonder if "Freeza" is even correct, and that his name shouldn't have been romanized as "Freezer" (which it was in the Latin Spanish dub)..

In regards to Freeza, Freeza is the most correct in terms of preserving the pun and sticking to the Katakana without going full out Furiiza.

フリーザ = Freeza
フリーザー = Freezer (which also happens to be Articuno's Japanese name in Pokémon).

Without the extra chōonpu (looked this up since I didn't know the proper term for it, haha) or as I would describe it the 'elongation dash' it would turn out as Freeza, the first chōonpu simply elongates the ii or ee sound. So if you stricly wanna go by pun preservation, while keeping the Katakana in consideration Freezer is wrong.

[ABED]

Preserving the pun is okay I prefer the name to not be so on the nose. Yes, Bloomers is what Bulma's name is supposed to be a play on, but Bulma works as just an odd name in this alternate Earth that Toriyama created. I much prefer Bulma to Blooma.

[Attitudefan]

Ugh, so Blue Water is involved for certain?

They might as well cast the people on this message board as the voices if they're going to give it to Calgary's losers.

That is so incredibly rude you know. Give them the benefit of the doubt. I will agree that there's a reason the Blue Water pool isn't their primary talent, but I've never found them absolutely horrendous - give or take a few casting mismatches, I found GT watchable for instance. I wonder if Zoe Slusar will be Gohan? I kind of hope not but you never know.

edit: does he know anything about the production side? Ever since Schemmel let the news of this dub slip years ago there's been talk of a replacement score, do you think if you asked he might be able to reveal anything?

Hmm, well maybe they are using the Calgary cast for minor roles as Ocean supposedly didn't want a few actors to play many roles; Drummond said he was only allowed to play two roles this time whereas he played many minor roles as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the main cast is Ocean in Vancouver, where Calgary cast will be the minor roles or background characters. It's a smart move in my eyes.

[ABED]

Drummond is a great talent and he was excellent as Vegeta in the early seasons, but his voice only really works when Vegeta is the villain. I've seen clips on Youtube from the Buu arc and it just doesn't work for me.

[NitroEX]

I don't think youtube clips are a fair way to judge someone's performance especially since most are very short and are taken out of context.

As for him only fitting a villain I'de have to disagree. Vegeta was always slightly villainous throughout the series and Drummond's ability to show that evil side works well for me. I think he's the best at showing Vegeta's rage and one of the great things about his performance is how he can make Vegeta sound calm and sadistic such as in fights with Pui Pui and Android 19 where he toy's with his victims. Sabat sounds angry pretty much all the time even in cases like this although I haven't seen much of his Kai stuff yet so maybe he improved in that.

[IAmTheMilkMan]

Drummond is a great talent and he was excellent as Vegeta in the early seasons, but his voice only really works when Vegeta is the villain. I've seen clips on Youtube from the Buu arc and it just doesn't work for me.

I definitely agree with this. While growing up and watching the original Ocean Dub on Cartoon Network, it worked fine for me given that he was the villain the entire time (plus, I didn't really know any better.) However, after having seen the character of Vegeta develop into what he did, Drummond's original voice really doesn't work as well because, at least to me, it sounds like such a stereo-typically villainous cartoon voice.

Sabat's Vegeta in the original Z dub was even worse for me, not because he sounded like a villain, but because of the poor acting and sounding like he's overly angry ALL of the time.

HOWEVER

Sabat's Vegeta in Kai was actually much better than his original run-through; he pulled back the whiney anger a lot and I'm actually reminded at times that Vegeta is a Saiyan Prince through his performance. As far as matching Horikawa, who is my favorite Vegeta, Sabat's Kai Vegeta comes the closest. It still has a ways to go, but it's the closest.

Sabat sounds angry pretty much all the time even in cases like this although I haven't seen much of his Kai stuff yet so maybe he improved in that.

He did. Significantly.

[sangofe]

Drummond is a great talent and he was excellent as Vegeta in the early seasons, but his voice only really works when Vegeta is the villain. I've seen clips on Youtube from the Buu arc and it just doesn't work for me.

I definitely agree with this. While growing up and watching the original Ocean Dub on Cartoon Network, it worked fine for me given that he was the villain the entire time (plus, I didn't really know any better.) However, after having seen the character of Vegeta develop into what he did, Drummond's original voice really doesn't work as well because, at least to me, it sounds like such a stereo-typically villainous cartoon voice.

Sabat's Vegeta in the original Z dub was even worse for me, not because he sounded like a villain, but because of the poor acting and sounding like he's overly angry ALL of the time.

HOWEVER

Sabat's Vegeta in Kai was actually much better than his original run-through; he pulled back the whiney anger a lot and I'm actually reminded at times that Vegeta is a Saiyan Prince through his performance. As far as matching Horikawa, who is my favorite Vegeta, Sabat's Kai Vegeta comes the closest. It still has a ways to go, but it's the closest.

Sabat sounds angry pretty much all the time even in cases like this although I haven't seen much of his Kai stuff yet so maybe he improved in that.

He did. Significantly.

The french Vegeta is much better, in my opinion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0EygE1i ... page#t=64s

[linkdude20002001]

I wouldn't consider Goku egregious considering it's just the accent on the wrong syllable, and I don't know how "Bulma" is mispronounced. The english pronounciation of Nappa still works since Napa is a vegetable. Even if it's an American mangling of another language, Napa as in "Napa Valley" has been around so long that it's accepted.
I think Semi-translations are fine. You can't make things super consistent because even the japanese version has some English words. Kami forbid, they don't call him God. As long as they portray Kami as a deity instead of a name, then all is well.

Like other have said, Bulma should be pronounced [bool-mah], whereas Funimation pronounces it [bul-muh], or as I swear they pronounced it in at least the first few seasons, [bohl-muh].
Is Napa Valley named after the vegetable? I don't actually even know how people pronounce that, actually. Either way, [nahp-pah] is closer to the pronunciation of the name of the vegetable, so I'd go with that.

The problem is, people already think it's his name at this point thanks to their dub of DBZ. And I think even in Kai, they might've called him "Guardian of Earth", as well as thrown around some "Roshi"s. I could be remembering wrong though.

This. I would also place Tenshinhan's voice as being pretty terrible (which is a shame because he's such a good Kurama in YYH) even in Kai.

Oh, duh! I forgot about his horrible voice... I've phased it out of my head and replaced it with Frierson's Tenshinhan (Harmony Gold dub).

[90sDBZ]

I really don't see the point in going overboard with the Japanese translations. It just seems stupid. If you want everything pronounced like that then just watch the Japanese version. It would seem weird for a character to be talking in a Canadian accent most of the time then to suddenly switch to a Japanese accent to pronounce certain words. If you really want the show in English with consistent Japanese pronunciations then you should ask for it to be dubbed by fluent English speaking Japanese actors. Stuff like Naw-mek just feels petty and over the top to me.

As for Brian Drummond I can see what people mean when they say he sounded off as Hero Vegeta. And I know what I'm talking about because I saw the entire Westwood dub on Toonami.

The thing is he did so well portraying Vegeta as a psychotic villain that it became impossible to believe that he could ever be a good guy. And when he did play good guy Vegeta his voice had to be changed otherwise he would still sound overly villainous. The result was a monotone performance that felt underwhelming most of the time. It was like an evil madman who had been forced to take pills to suppress his evil personality and as a result sounded like he was dead inside.

Drummond in the old Saban dub made Vegeta sound like a madman on cocaine who had also taken a dose of helium. I don't know if it was appropriate for the character but I liked it.

Sabat on the other hand sounds believable as both a hero and villain. Instead of sounding insane he sounded cool and calculating as well as proud which I felt was appropriate.

Unfortunately it sounds like this dub is going to another Westwood dub. If that really is the case then I sure am glad it's not the dub we got in the UK this time. The fact that they're supposed to be using Blue Water actors isn't really encouraging either.

[ABED]

The proper pronunciations of Namek and Saiyan fine, and since they are alien in origin I think they work well, even if it doesn't roll off the tounge like the mispronounciations. l think Guldo works as an adaptation, even if the pun is lost. However, something like Kuririn is too much in English. A good question is how much of the names is down to the Japanese accent?

Sabat's Vegeta was great in Kai, but I think he got there by at least the redub of seasons 1 and 2.

As for the issue of the Ocean Kai dub, I've read that the Canadian dub got worse when they started dubbing season 4 onward due to a lack of a good director. I gotta say, I agree. The performances just didn't seem up to their usual quality. Granted, as has been pointed out, I just saw clips (5-6 minute clips, but still clips), but I wasn't a fan. One reason is Goku's voice. Kirby Morrow may be talented but I don't think his voice suits our hero.

[90sDBZ]

Sabat's Vegeta was great in Kai, but I think he got there by at least the redub of seasons 1 and 2.

As for the issue of the Ocean Kai dub, I've read that the Canadian dub got worse when they started dubbing season 4 onward due to a lack of a good director. I gotta say, I agree. The performances just didn't seem up to their usual quality. Granted, as has been pointed out, I just saw clips (5-6 minute clips, but still clips), but I wasn't a fan. One reason is Goku's voice. Kirby Morrow may be talented but I don't think his voice suits our hero.

I agree about Sabat sounding just as good in the Season 1 and 2 re-dub. Apart from that one episode were he changed his voice a bit so that you wouldn't notice his Vegeta and Monster Zarbon overlapping. But in Kai that isn't an issue so it's all good.

And trust me you're right about Ocean getting worse at the Android saga. I saw every episode of it on Toonami UK and could barely stand it. The worst thing about it was the terrible music they used which was recycled from Megaman. It was so boring and repetitive to listen to that I'd actually rather watch DBZ with no music. Drummond was underwhelming as Vegeta, Kelamis while still pretty good as Goku wasn't as good as before and often sounded like he was trying too hard with the screaming. As a kid I always thought of him as the most constipated sounding Goku in the Android/Imperfect Cell sagas. Simply put he just didn't live up to his old performance. Trunks sounded terrible and so did Cell and most of the Androids.

It did see an improvement in the Fusion and Kid Buu sagas though because it finally introduced some decent music which actually made it pretty decent. Too bad they had to wait so long to make that improvement though because most of the episodes were simply a chore to sit through with the same few tracks playing over and over. If Ocean Kai is going to be even half decent it needs to either use good replacement music or just keep the Kikuchi score.

[ABED]

I was never a fan of Kelamis' Goku, especailly after Ian Corlette's awesomeness. Hell, even early Schemmel felt like a step up. Kelamis just seemed he was trying too hard. I'm surprised he's held in such high regard by many. Then again, I think Burgmeier is great as Tenshinhan, which doesn't seem to be the prevailing opinion.

By the way, how many of the people on this forum live in Canada? The only way I've been able to see anything from the Canadian dub of DBZ was on Youtube. How are you guys watching it? It doesn't play in America, and I don't see any home video releases.

[Android17]

By the way, how many of the people on this forum live in Canada? The only way I've been able to see anything from the Canadian dub of DBZ was on Youtube. How are you guys watching it? It doesn't play in America, and I don't see any home video releases.

I live in Canada (Calgary actually, where Blue Water Studios is located). I grew up with the Ocean/Westwood dub of Dragon Ball Z so I saw the entire thing during its run on YTV. As far as I know, however, the Cell and Buu sagas have never seen a home release even here. I don't know how you could find it now - well, aside from means I don't think should be mentioned here.

[ABED]

By the way, how many of the people on this forum live in Canada? The only way I've been able to see anything from the Canadian dub of DBZ was on Youtube. How are you guys watching it? It doesn't play in America, and I don't see any home video releases.

I live in Canada (Calgary actually, where Blue Water Studios is located). I grew up with the Ocean/Westwood dub of Dragon Ball Z so I saw the entire thing during its run on YTV. As far as I know, however, the Cell and Buu sagas have never seen a home release even here. I don't know how you could find it now - well, aside from means I don't think should be mentioned here.

I'm not really interested in watching all of it. I was asking out of curiosity to see how others seem so familiar with it. Lastly, I would never pirate anything. It's a smack in the face to creators, and the depth of evasion that many people demonstrate (openly!) on the web with regard to copyright theft is staggering to me.

[Attitudefan]

I was never a fan of Kelamis' Goku, especailly after Ian Corlette's awesomeness. Hell, even early Schemmel felt like a step up. Kelamis just seemed he was trying too hard. I'm surprised he's held in such high regard by many. Then again, I think Burgmeier is great as Tenshinhan, which doesn't seem to be the prevailing opinion.

By the way, how many of the people on this forum live in Canada? The only way I've been able to see anything from the Canadian dub of DBZ was on Youtube. How are you guys watching it? It doesn't play in America, and I don't see any home video releases.

I honestly never minded it on TV. Actually, there was a period where I forgot about Ocean after a long break from DBZ.

But I don't think this is going to be a Westwood dub. For one, it has taken a long time to finish and the directors seem much more picky. Kirby Morrow is not coming back as Goku. Also, Brian Drummond seemed surprised about the outsourcing and didn't seem to happy about it. So I don't know. Also, when he was talking about the attack on Cell scene, it sounded like he went all out as he said he almost destroyed his voice and had a commercial recording to do after haha.

[KingofWisdom]

Hmm, well maybe they are using the Calgary cast for minor roles as Ocean supposedly didn't want a few actors to play many roles; Drummond said he was only allowed to play two roles this time whereas he played many minor roles as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the main cast is Ocean in Vancouver, where Calgary cast will be the minor roles or background characters. It's a smart move in my eyes.

To quote Schemmel, "If your lead actor is great, your lead cast is great, and Soldier B sucks, now the lead actor looks bad. Everybody's gotta be awesome, even from the smallest part, to the biggest part. 'Cause we all support each other...." I doubt they're that lacking in actors over at Ocean's main Vancouver recording facility either, because I don't recall hearing McNeil a dozen times in Death Note. I figure the outsourcing of roles is more of a budgetary thing.

[ABED]

Hmm, well maybe they are using the Calgary cast for minor roles as Ocean supposedly didn't want a few actors to play many roles; Drummond said he was only allowed to play two roles this time whereas he played many minor roles as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the main cast is Ocean in Vancouver, where Calgary cast will be the minor roles or background characters. It's a smart move in my eyes.

To quote Schemmel, "If your lead actor is great, your lead cast is great, and Soldier B sucks, now the lead actor looks bad. Everybody's gotta be awesome, even from the smallest part, to the biggest part. 'Cause we all support each other...." I doubt they're that lacking in actors over at Ocean's main Vancouver recording facility either, because I don't recall hearing McNeil a dozen times in Death Note. I figure the outsourcing of roles is more of a budgetary thing.

I appreciate Sean's POV, but I gotta disagree. Every show has a few bit parts that aren't up to snuff, and I don't think that makes the leads look bad.

[Fizzer]

It sounds like this is going to be much higher quality than the Westwood DBZ, with good acting for at least all of the main characters, good scripting and good direction. I'm fairly sure it's going to have a lot of censorship, though, and we probably won't get an uncensored release of it, because apparently Drummond said he'd like to do a mature dub, which makes it sound like he hasn't already. Still, the original Ocean dub of Z was censored and still pretty good.

[penguintruth]

Schemmel thinks Funimation's Soldier B is any good? I happen to think Soldier B sucked. Soldier B always sucks in English dubs.

Anyway, what organization is behind the alleged Ocean dub of Kai, anyway? Westwood Media Productions? TV air only or home video production, too? Which stations? When? It's been years and none of these questions have been answered. Which is why I still doubt this. Why the secrecy? Funimation tells you every time they make a bowel movement. What's Ocean doing, working on a cancer cure?

I was never a fan of Kelamis' Goku, especailly after Ian Corlette's awesomeness. Hell, even early Schemmel felt like a step up. Kelamis just seemed he was trying too hard. I'm surprised he's held in such high regard by many.

Corlett is bland. Bland, bland, bland. No personality. Kelamis has Nozawa-ish charm.