Always confused about the forms of Boo
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GogetaSSJ2
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Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
And this is why I gave up on comparing Buu arc power levels a long time ago
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
... Along with Toriyama.Saiga wrote:The new movie isn't going to settle anything. It's not part of the manga & written by someone else.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
Yeah, saying it is not written by Toriyama isn't right. But he is not the only one working on it.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
True, but I find it annoying when people say "it's another Toei movie with Toei haxxed base Goku", while it clearly isn't the case this time.Fox666 wrote:Yeah, saying it is not written by Toriyama isn't right. But he is not the only one working on it.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
Toriyama isn't even the main scriptwriter.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
He is not the main one, but he is heavily involved, to the point that the movie is officially considered a Toriyama work.hleV wrote:Toriyama isn't even the main scriptwriter.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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FindKenshi
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Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
So there will be a fierce debate about how canon the movie is, as I expected.
Numerous promotional material boasts the movie as a "main part of the story" and that it's "not a spin-off, not a side-story."
This is as close as we've ever come to an official source saying "this is canon", and it has Toriyama on board. What more do fans want?
Maybe if Toriyama manga-izes it and they release yet another new final volume of the Kanzenban, maybe then you'll have no choice to accept it. But to me, personally, the movie will count as full canon in my eyes.
Numerous promotional material boasts the movie as a "main part of the story" and that it's "not a spin-off, not a side-story."
This is as close as we've ever come to an official source saying "this is canon", and it has Toriyama on board. What more do fans want?
Maybe if Toriyama manga-izes it and they release yet another new final volume of the Kanzenban, maybe then you'll have no choice to accept it. But to me, personally, the movie will count as full canon in my eyes.
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Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
I mean that the main scriptwriter is someone else.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Along with Toriyama.Saiga wrote:The new movie isn't going to settle anything. It's not part of the manga & written by someone else.
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Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
Of course not, this is an adaptation, has Toriyama ever worked with the animation industry? Toriyama is not the "main scriptwriter" of the anime episodes too, even the ones that 90% is from the manga...
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
Still, it doesn't change the fact that he is heavily involved, and that the movie is officially considered a Toriyama work.Saiga wrote:I mean that the main scriptwriter is someone else.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Along with Toriyama.Saiga wrote:The new movie isn't going to settle anything. It's not part of the manga & written by someone else.
It's not the same. The anime creators could add whatever events (like the Earthlings vs Ginyu Tokusentai on Kaio's Planet) or lines (Pure Boo is the most powerful Boo!) they wanted, even if they contradict the manga.Fox666 wrote:Of course not, this is an adaptation, has Toriyama ever worked with the animation industry? Toriyama is not the "main scriptwriter" of the anime episodes too, even the ones that 90% is from the manga...
In the movie however, Toriyama can presumably prevent such inconsistencies.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
It doesn't matter what the promotional bullshit they spout says. He's not the main creator, it's not part of the original work, to me, it's not even close to canon.
Last edited by Saiga on Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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FindKenshi
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Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
You're being unusually stubborn about this. It's not just all "PR" (try "promotional", that word fits this context better than "pubic relations")... some of this comes from an interview with Akira Toriyama himself. He says he's involved with the creation of the story from the ground up.Saiga wrote:It doesn't matter what the PR bullshit they spout says. He's not the main creator, it's not part of the original work, to me, it's not even close to canon.
Is there a reason, though, that the subject of whether the movie being canon or not is a hot button for you? I mean, will Goku surpassing Gohan really harm your enjoyment of the series that much!?
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Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
And the people supporting it being canon aren't being just as stubborn?FindKenshi wrote: You're being unusually stubborn about this. It's not just all "PR" (try "promotional", that word fits this context better than "pubic relations")... some of this comes from an interview with Akira Toriyama himself. He says he's involved with the creation of the story from the ground up.
Is there a reason, though, that the subject of whether the movie being canon or not is a hot button for you? I mean, will Goku surpassing Gohan really harm your enjoyment of the series that much!?
And yes, I did mean promotional. I'm not arguing that Toriyama isn't involved, but the stuff about this being an original Toriyama work is just bullshit said to create hype. From the interview with him, he didn't even come up with the SSG or Hakaishin concepts.
The discussion isn't a hot button for me, and no, it's got nothing to do with whether Goku will be stronger than Gohan in it. It's entirely to do with the main scriptwriter not being Toriyama and the movie being a Toei product.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
He did include Bills in his explanation for why Kaio's Planet is so small (and the product wasn't even related to Battle of Gods, it was a question in the Full Colored manga), so Toriyama seems to consider BoG part of the story. Shueisha seems to believe the same thing (they included Bills & Whis in the first, manga-only Chozenshuu), and it's officially considered part of the original story. Even if Toriyama didn't come up with the Hakaishin & Super Saiyan God, he has accepted them (not to mention that it doesn't matter if he didn't come up with them, since there are things even in the manga that he didn't come up with, like Fusion). It all screams canon to me.Saiga wrote:It doesn't matter what the promotional bullshit they spout says. He's not the main creator, it's not part of the original work, to me, it's not even close to canon.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
That doesn't scream canon at all. 
Part of the official history could mean anything, and more likely simply means that it fits within the manga's timeline. Toriyama's explanation for Kaio's planet seems deliberately engineered to tie in to BoG, since all those questions seem to be created for the purpose of answering them. Including BoG info in the Chozenshuu is likely for the same reason, to generate hype.
Part of the official history could mean anything, and more likely simply means that it fits within the manga's timeline. Toriyama's explanation for Kaio's planet seems deliberately engineered to tie in to BoG, since all those questions seem to be created for the purpose of answering them. Including BoG info in the Chozenshuu is likely for the same reason, to generate hype.I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
It doesn't matter what reasons they have for tying-in BoG with the manga, what matters is that it happens. Shueisha does it, Toriyama does it, we don't know about any contradiction to the manga currently, so that's enough for me to accept it as well as part of the manga story.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
There are no hard rules for what is and isn't canon. If someone doesn't want to accept something that comes years after the original story as part of an original canon, that's their business. There's no right and wrong here.FindKenshi wrote:You're being unusually stubborn about this. It's not just all "PR" (try "promotional", that word fits this context better than "pubic relations")... some of this comes from an interview with Akira Toriyama himself. He says he's involved with the creation of the story from the ground up.
Is there a reason, though, that the subject of whether the movie being canon or not is a hot button for you? I mean, will Goku surpassing Gohan really harm your enjoyment of the series that much!?
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Marco Polo
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Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
*clicks on the thread thinking it was a thread about the forms of Boo*
*finds out the topic being discussed is the new movie's canonicity*
Mmh, well, on the one hand, Toriyama is not the scriptwriter of the movie, and things like the existence of a God of Destruction and the Super Saiyan God were not his creations.
On the other hand, Toriyama explains the small size of Kaio's planet in the manga by directly referring to Bills, meaning he himself does consider Bills part of his story even though he didn't create the concept of a God of Destruction.
*finds out the topic being discussed is the new movie's canonicity*
Mmh, well, on the one hand, Toriyama is not the scriptwriter of the movie, and things like the existence of a God of Destruction and the Super Saiyan God were not his creations.
On the other hand, Toriyama explains the small size of Kaio's planet in the manga by directly referring to Bills, meaning he himself does consider Bills part of his story even though he didn't create the concept of a God of Destruction.
Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
Take Kabooms guide to the Boo forms in my signature. Its easy and quick to the point.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Always confused about the forms of Boo
Part of the official history doesn't leave much wiggle room, if any at all. The official history IS the canon but the official isn't defined. All we know is that Battle of Gods is part of it.
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