The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[RandomGuy96]

Would pre-cyborg Tao have a chance against Tambourine? His power level was something like 110 if I recall correctly.

[RandomGuy96]

Oh, another one I thought of:

Android 17 or 18 vs Meta-Cooler (the one Goku and Vegeta fought)

I personally think Cooler one-shots 18 or 17, but apparently some people don't, so I'd like to see why.

[Godo]

Oh, another one I thought of:

Android 17 or 18 vs Meta-Cooler (the one Goku and Vegeta fought)

I personally think Cooler one-shots 18 or 17, but apparently some people don't, so I'd like to see why.

Well, Goku and Vegeta could at least scratch and damage Metal Cooler to an extent (albeit small towards the end), and Vegeta couldn't do much more than to damage 18's clothes.
I believe that in the movie, Goku and Vegeta are their Android arc's counterparts.

So simply I believe that 17 would be the strongest, followed by 18, then we have Metal Cooler, then Goku and Vegeta.

I mean, Vegeta barely held up against 18, whilst to be able to fight evenly with 17, they needed a huge boost, and that's where Piccolo comes in.

By Vegeta's reaction, Piccolo was leagues ahead of him and Goku, so by that, and the Vegeta vs. 18 fight, I believe that 17 and 18 would win, although they would probably have taken some damage in the process.

[TheMightyOzaru]

If it's Meta Cooler vs only one of them I give it to Meta Cooler. Piccolo is supposedly fused with Kami in this movie, Dende being the guardian kinda screams that, and Meta Cooler makes short work of him later in the film. If it was 17 AND 18 well... Cooler is f***ed.

[RandomGuy96]

As far as I'm concerned, there's 3 ways to determine Cooler's power. All of them result in him absolutely stomping the Androids.

Trying to place it in the timeline
This only really fits in the ten day wait to the Cell Games. Goku's hair seems to have that FPSS tint to it, and Goku is stated by Cooler to be stronger than Piccolo. In which case, it's obvious that Cooler one-shots everyone below full power Perfect Cell, who he at least rivals.

Actually the most likely scenario here by far, as much as I hate to admit it. Goku's healthy and fight-worthy, indicating that he doesn't have the heart virus... yet Vegeta can go Super Saiyan and everyone knows this, so it has to take place after 19 and 20 die. Meaning Goku had to have gotten the heart virus and been cured already. The only time where this is possible is during that ten day wait, as Goku was still reeling from the virus up until Cell became Perfect. In short: Metal Cooler is a fucking beast.

Metal Cooler vs Kamiccolo
This movie at least clearly takes place after 19 and 20 die (Vegeta can go Super Saiyan and no one is surprised). But some people just don't like Cooler to be that powerful, and usually cite Gohan not going Super Saiyan as evidence that this doesn't happen during that ten day wait. Okay, fair enough. But Dende is still the Guardian of Earth and Piccolo is there, so Kami can't be dead. Logically, since this happened after 19 and 20 died, Piccolo would've had to have fused with Kami.

We clearly saw how Metal Cooler vs Kamiccolo (who's equal to 17) went...

Metal Cooler vs the two Android Arc Super Saiyans
Some people say this takes place in a universe where Kamiccolo doesn't exist and try to weasel out of why Dende is guardian. Kay. I don't think this makes any sense and it has no evidence behind it, but I'll go with it.

Android 18 vs Vegeta was not as one-sided as most people like to think. 18 was clearly stronger, but Vegeta wasn't that far behind, and he certainly held his own. His stamina was what really screwed him, as said by Piccolo. Even after 18 declared her intention to go serious, Vegeta still landed several good hits. He's at least 80% of her power. Also, 17 thought that Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo at the same time would be too much for 18.

Contrast Metal Cooler vs Vegeta and Goku (who must be at a similar level). It took Metal Cooler literally ten seconds to beat Vegeta. Metal Cooler destroyed him with no effort at all. Then Goku stepped in, and they were both curbstomped. Metal Cooler didn't even flinch when Super Saiyan Goku punched him right in the face several times while Metal Cooler had Goku by the neck.This alone puts him far above 17 and 18 to me.

[Saiga]

My rationalisation of Movie 6 is that Vegeta went into the Room of Spirit and Time with Goku instead of Trunks, and they defeated Cell and the Androids together. So Dende is God and there's no Super Saiyan/Cell Games age Gohan.

As such, I think a Meta-Cooler would be enough to take on both Androids with ease.

[Fox666]

deleted

[Kaboom]

Metal Coola's power rose each time he was "defeated" and then repaired. If one Metal Coola gets the upgrade, it'd stand to reason that ALL of them would, and wouldn't ya know, Piccolo didn't take on and have a tough time with one until after that second upgrade. So it's very possible that the last boost in power made Metal Coola stronger than Piccolo, as well as already being stronger than Goku and Vegeta.

SSj Goku/Vegeta: 250
Piccolo: 400

Metal Coola: 200 (Goku defeats on his own)
--- Upgrade 1: 350 (Goku and Vegeta barely defeat working together)
--- Upgrade 2: 500 (Goku and Vegeta stare down a thousand of them, Piccolo gets roughed up by one)

[RandomGuy96]

Are those numbers actually meant to be their power levels in the millions? Because if so, that's quite absurd, as normal Cooler should be over 200 million to say nothing of Metal Cooler.

Anyway, I think that even putting the one Goku and Vegeta fought below Kamiccolo, 17, and 18 is quite unfair. Just compare Metal Cooler vs Vegeta (which lasted literally ten seconds, even while Cooler was pulling his punches, trying not to kill Vegeta so he could absorb his energy) to Android 18 vs Vegeta, where Vegeta lasted a long time and held his own against Android 18, losing mostly because of his stamina.

[Kaboom]

Are those numbers actually meant to be their power levels in the millions? Because if so, that's quite absurd, as normal Cooler should be over 200 million to say nothing of Metal Cooler.

Uh... those are the ones I use, yes.

[RandomGuy96]

It's just that... you're assuming that 3 years of training didn't even double Goku's power when it's done way more than double all of the other times he trained, and that Cooler is somehow below 200 million even though that analysis I posted on Cooler vs Trunks details why him being so weak is improbable.

[Kaboom]

Making any post-Freeza power levels is all about opinion and interpretation. Your unique analysis and its own "obvious" assumptions don't really present anything I haven't already considered, nor do they change my mind on any of my own ideas that I'm comfortable with.

[RandomGuy96]

That just seems REALLY wrong to me... eh, whatever, this isn't a power levels thread, it's a relative strength thread.

Why do you have the Metal Cooler Goku and Vegeta fought below Android 18/17/Kamiccolo? 17 clearly says that 18 can't take Vegeta and the rest of the Z-fighters at the same time by herself... yet Metal Cooler takes on Vegeta and Goku (who's stronger than Trunks, Piccolo, and the humans combined) and effortlessly hands them their asses. Heck, Vegeta alone managed to fight evenly with 18 (with Trunks expressing surprise that he was even able to do that and Piccolo saying the biggest factor in his defeat was the stamina issue) while Metal Cooler vs Vegeta lasted ten seconds.

[Fox666]

deleted

[Pantalones]

Vegeta wasn't ever fighting evenly with #18... even when she was holding back and he hadn't been worn out yet, he was only barely keeping up, and she ended the fight with barely a scratch on her anyway (aside from her clothes) and never even used any of her special abilities (like the barrier #17 showed off later, which both of the Androids were able to use. She didn't even fire a single blast, if I remember right... just punches/kicks/etc. the whole time, which was still way more than Vegeta could handle.)

Vegeta, on the other hand, got his arms broken once #18 stopped playing around. Hardly anyone ever gets bones broken or body parts severed/destroyed in DBZ unless they are completely overpowered (see Piccolo vs. Raditz, Tenshinhan vs. Nappa, Vegeta vs. Guldo, Gohan vs. Cell Juniors, etc.) He would've lost even if #18 didn't have unlimited stamina, especially if she got serious early on in the fight instead of playing with him for so long.

#17 and "Kamiccolo" was an example of one of the Androids fighting evenly with somebody--they both went all-out, using several special techniques, and neither one was obviously coming out ahead (and since Cell interrupted we never saw the end of it.) #18 and Vegeta was a one-sided massacre that only lasted as long as it did because #18 was playing around with him.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Super Saiyan Grade 2 Vegeta vs Super Saiyan Grade 2 Trunks

Super Saiyan Vegeta vs Super Saiyan Trunks

First fight is after the 1st day inside the RoSaT, second fight is after the 2nd day. Who is the strongest one, and did the 2nd day make any difference between their powers?

[Saiga]

Super Saiyan Grade 2 Vegeta vs Super Saiyan Grade 2 Trunks

Super Saiyan Vegeta vs Super Saiyan Trunks

First fight is after the 1st day inside the RoSaT, second fight is after the 2nd day. Who is the strongest one, and did the 2nd day make any difference between their powers?

Vegeta wins both rounds. He claims to be stronger after the first trip and Trunks only thinks he's surpassed him because of Grade 3, and Vegeta is a fighting genius while Trunks makes blunders. After the second day, I think the gap between the two would increase slightly.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

He claims to be stronger after the first trip and Trunks only thinks he's surpassed him because of Grade 3, and Vegeta is a fighting genius while Trunks makes blunders.

Well, I don't think we can take Vegeta's statement as a fact, because that's Vegeta we are talking about. Not to mention that if Trunks was stronger, he wouldn't reveal it to Vegeta. So, Trunks could be from slightly weaker than Vegeta, to slightly stronger than Vegeta. And while Vegeta is a fighting genius, Trunks has a lot more dormant power than Vegeta, making his power growth faster.

Not saying that Trunks is stronger than Vegeta, just saying. I asked for more opinions to decide for myself.

[Saiga]

He claims to be stronger after the first trip and Trunks only thinks he's surpassed him because of Grade 3, and Vegeta is a fighting genius while Trunks makes blunders.

Well, I don't think we can take Vegeta's statement as a fact, because that's Vegeta we are talking about. Not to mention that if Trunks was stronger, he wouldn't reveal it to Vegeta. So, Trunks could be from slightly weaker than Vegeta, to slightly stronger than Vegeta. And while Vegeta is a fighting genius, Trunks has a lot more dormant power than Vegeta, making his power growth faster.

Not saying that Trunks is stronger than Vegeta, just saying. I asked for more opinions to decide for myself.

I think we can, actually. Vegeta may talk himself up but he'd know from training how strong Trunks is and I don't think he'd lie about that. Plus, again, Trunks only seemed to think he was more powerful because of Grade III,

[RandomGuy96]

Recoome vs Nail.