Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Nex Carnifex wrote:I just know the emphasized that it was uncut, and that was a big reason to buy it, its just gonna be lame if like it comes to america and there's no point to even say its uncut, since its so tame there's nothing to be worried about.
The point of the Season Sets being 'uncut' wasn't because they were some huge, bloody slaughter-fest or anything - it was just that this series, this long-running in the States series, was finally getting a full, easy to grab, 'uncut' release. The only reason uncut was brought up so much at all was because FUNi had had a long history of edited material for the series, so it needed stressed to the people that don't keep up with the franchise as much (the 'lukewarm' fans if you will) that it was indeed an uncut product.
This movie, when it comes over, won't need the same kind of marketing push at all. It being uncut is a given, no matter how violent or not violent it is. Uncut doesn't even MEAN something is violent per say, it just means that it's unaltered from it's original version. For example, there's really not THAT much violence taken out of the original Japanese version of Digimon, not in the long run anyway. But the fact that it is cut out then makes the original version 'uncut'.
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NeoKING wrote:You guys who are going on about this blood and nonsense deal need to understand that Dragon Ball now isn't the same Dragon Ball that was in the 90s. The Dragon Ball of today is super light-hearted. If the Episode of Bardock OVA were made in the 80s-90s, do you really think the Plants would look how they did? The franchise was much more hardcore back in the day, but now it's much softer. Gone are the days of the intense and serious conflict of the Namek and Cell sagas, where the sense of drama and hopelessness of the series were on par with other Shonen - now Dragon Ball is pretty much 60% gags and humor and 50% action, giving us 110% of a decent series.
First you're all negative then you say its 110% decent what does that even mean
Just because it's not as hardcore as it was back in the day doesn't mean it's bad. That's your fault for reading what I said and thinking I was saying "DB isn't as great as it was before, now it's just lolligagging jokes." I like the mix of comedy and action. It's 110% goodness. That's what it even means. I don't need blood and gore to be entertained.
Marco Polo wrote:So if I understand correctly, Vegeta only knows about Bils because Kaio telepathically told him about it during the movie, right? Still, the discussion between Bils and Uisu seems to imply that Freeza really was an agent of him back in the days. I wonder what's up with that. It would be quite shocking if Freeza was actually just serving a God (who technically isn't evil) rather than being an actual selfish evil overlord.
I would love Freeza to be an agent of Bils. Though it probably isn't true as Freeza claimed he was the strongest in the universe and meeting Bils would probably have him not saying that. Then again he was delusional when fighting Goku so maybe.
Nex Carnifex wrote:I just know the emphasized that it was uncut, and that was a big reason to buy it, its just gonna be lame if like it comes to america and there's no point to even say its uncut, since its so tame there's nothing to be worried about.
Its uncut on dialogue mainly and not blood. The dialogue is more censored then the blood. The manga has more of what you want in it.
No dude, the blood was heavily censored on its cartoon network run as Kai's blood and violence was on its Nicktoons run. The censorship hardly had anything to do with it with DBZ, but with Kai it was a different story, since there was abundant swearing in Kai's uncut english audio.
Nex Carnifex wrote:I just know the emphasized that it was uncut, and that was a big reason to buy it, its just gonna be lame if like it comes to america and there's no point to even say its uncut, since its so tame there's nothing to be worried about.
The point of the Season Sets being 'uncut' wasn't because they were some huge, bloody slaughter-fest or anything - it was just that this series, this long-running in the States series, was finally getting a full, easy to grab, 'uncut' release. The only reason uncut was brought up so much at all was because FUNi had had a long history of edited material for the series, so it needed stressed to the people that don't keep up with the franchise as much (the 'lukewarm' fans if you will) that it was indeed an uncut product.
This movie, when it comes over, won't need the same kind of marketing push at all. It being uncut is a given, no matter how violent or not violent it is. Uncut doesn't even MEAN something is violent per say, it just means that it's unaltered from it's original version. For example, there's really not THAT much violence taken out of the original Japanese version of Digimon, not in the long run anyway. But the fact that it is cut out then makes the original version 'uncut'.
Best description on the subject. Though maybe I would like some extra blood and gore, I could care less if it was added in or not as it affects nothing.
The censorship was mainly words rather then blood.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Nex Carnifex wrote:I just know the emphasized that it was uncut, and that was a big reason to buy it, its just gonna be lame if like it comes to america and there's no point to even say its uncut, since its so tame there's nothing to be worried about.
The point of the Season Sets being 'uncut' wasn't because they were some huge, bloody slaughter-fest or anything - it was just that this series, this long-running in the States series, was finally getting a full, easy to grab, 'uncut' release. The only reason uncut was brought up so much at all was because FUNi had had a long history of edited material for the series, so it needed stressed to the people that don't keep up with the franchise as much (the 'lukewarm' fans if you will) that it was indeed an uncut product.
This movie, when it comes over, won't need the same kind of marketing push at all. It being uncut is a given, no matter how violent or not violent it is. Uncut doesn't even MEAN something is violent per say, it just means that it's unaltered from it's original version. For example, there's really not THAT much violence taken out of the original Japanese version of Digimon, not in the long run anyway. But the fact that it is cut out then makes the original version 'uncut'.
There WAS a lot of violence taken out of Dragon Ball Z though on Cartoon Network, same thing with Kai on Nicktoons, a ton of censorship went into both of those. I'm saying like if there's a new Dragon Ball series, and it just isn't violent, and it comes here and airs on Nickalodean and they're like, wow we don't need to censor anything this time, its just gonna show how much less intense the franchise has become from being all watered down like someone here said. I know me and a lot of people are gonna be upset with that, but yeah if you're really digging the goofy humor cheers to you. Personally i think the level of violence and crude humor in Toriyama's comics is what I'm a fan of, not so much this, but I want to see where the story goes still...
I guess we're just looking for different things in the 'action' in the series then. For me, what's exciting is the over-the-top aspects, the punches through mountains, the planet-threatening energy attacks, all the mid-air combat. Sure, I wouldn't mind there to actually be blood after someone takes a huge attack - that's a given, if you take a big hit, you're probably going to bleed. I don't actually need it to enjoy the series though, that's just a background thing for me.
And as far as the humor goes, even that's been toned down since the old days. I doubt we'd ever see something like Roshi's perversions over a girl as young as Bulma ever again. And even the 'sexual' aspects, such as seeing Bulma in the buff - you're not gonna see that kind of stuff anymore either, at least not in a series aimed at kids like Dragon Ball is. It's just the nature of the business sadly, times have changed and a lot of things you could get away with in a series like Dragon Ball back then, you just can't do now. It's sad but true.
Heck, on the 'sexual' aspect, the cutting down on nudity has pretty much put an end of an era as far as 'romantic comedies' in Jump go. I haven't heard about a particularly good one in a long time anyway.
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Gyt Kaliba wrote:I guess we're just looking for different things in the 'action' in the series then. For me, what's exciting is the over-the-top aspects, the punches through mountains, the planet-threatening energy attacks, all the mid-air combat. Sure, I wouldn't mind there to actually be blood after someone takes a huge attack - that's a given, if you take a big hit, you're probably going to bleed. I don't actually need it to enjoy the series though, that's just a background thing for me.
And as far as the humor goes, even that's been toned down since the old days. I doubt we'd ever see something like Roshi's perversions over a girl as young as Bulma ever again. And even the 'sexual' aspects, such as seeing Bulma in the buff - you're not gonna see that kind of stuff anymore either, at least not in a series aimed at kids like Dragon Ball is. It's just the nature of the business sadly, times have changed and a lot of things you could get away with in a series like Dragon Ball back then, you just can't do now. It's sad but true.
Heck, on the 'sexual' aspect, the cutting down on nudity has pretty much put an end of an era as far as 'romantic comedies' in Jump go. I haven't heard about a particularly good one in a long time anyway.
Some censorship I like, I don't need to see Goku's junk and I don't think anyone else wants to either. But I am definitely willing to trade some of the old stuff out for this awesome new animation and possible continuations.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
For me, I'm never gonna feel as intimidated by the enemies if they aren't capable of disturbing stuff like they used to be, I recall Videl getting beaten to a bloody pulp for like 10 cringe worthy minutes, that was messed up but i loved it, its fun to be like "ohhh shit, O_O" that's what makes you want to see what happens next.
Nex Carnifex wrote:For me, I'm never gonna feel as intimidated by the enemies if they aren't capable of disturbing stuff like they used to be, I recall Videl getting beaten to a bloody pulp for like 10 cringe worthy minutes, that was messed up but i loved it, its fun to be like "ohhh shit, O_O" that's what makes you want to see what happens next.
Most of us were disgusted by that O__O that was horrible!
Um, not precisely the place to be having this discussion, I'd think. Mayhaps a thread dedicated to Violence in DragonBall? I think that would be pretty fascinating!
So, I've been soooaaaking up these spoilers for the movie. I'm actually particularly hyped about seeing it now. I was going to before anyway, of course, but now I'm just craving a domestic release. If there's even the slightest chance of a limited theatrical release, I'll drive to friggin' Houston to see it.
Just because something is G rated does not mean the movie can't have dark moments. The Secret of NIMH was rated G and it was pretty dark. Even Dracula Has Risen from the Grave is rated G and it has blood.
KaiserNeko wrote:Um, not precisely the place to be having this discussion, I'd think. Mayhaps a thread dedicated to Violence in DragonBall? I think that would be pretty fascinating!
So, I've been soooaaaking up these spoilers for the movie. I'm actually particularly hyped about seeing it now. I was going to before anyway, of course, but now I'm just craving a domestic release. If there's even the slightest chance of a limited theatrical release, I'll drive to friggin' Houston to see it.
There is a thread but it somehow fell into this one.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Hellspawn28 wrote:Just because something is G rated does not mean the movie can't have dark moments. The Secret of NIMH was rated G and it was pretty dark. Even Dracula Has Risen from the Grave is rated G and it has blood.
There is a dark moment in this movie with a pregnant Videl getting shot because of her drunk husbands irresponsibility lol
Regardless, this is probably one of the darkest moments Dragon Ball has ever had. Goku encounters the God of Destruction, gains the power of a Super Saiyan God through a pregnant Videl and an unborn Pan, still loses to said god twice, consents to the destruction of Earth (even though it doesn't happen). I like this style of writing, though. I've never been as shocked with DB as I have before until this movie.
NeoKING wrote:Regardless, this is probably one of the darkest moments Dragon Ball has ever had. Goku encounters the God of Destruction, gains the power of a Super Saiyan God through a pregnant Videl and an unborn Pan, still loses to said god twice, consents to the destruction of Earth (even though it doesn't happen). I like this style of writing, though. I've never been as shocked with DB as I have before until this movie.
Yeah, they weren't lying when it defies the regular laws of Dragonball.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
NeoKING wrote:Regardless, this is probably one of the darkest moments Dragon Ball has ever had. Goku encounters the God of Destruction, gains the power of a Super Saiyan God through a pregnant Videl and an unborn Pan, still loses to said god twice, consents to the destruction of Earth (even though it doesn't happen). I like this style of writing, though. I've never been as shocked with DB as I have before until this movie.
Goku just consents to say "I give up". I'm not sure he purposely consents to Bils blowing up the Earth
Isn't Dragon Ball simply targeted to all ages =/. If anyone can enjoy it, it's an all ages kinda show.
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I quite like the idea of Goku given it he's all, achieving a new form of power, but still losing and admitting defeat; it's much better than the tired "Goku saves the day" again. If anything, it shows Goku is "human", and is capable of being defeated, even when at the top of his game. Hats off the writer.
NeoKING wrote:Regardless, this is probably one of the darkest moments Dragon Ball has ever had. Goku encounters the God of Destruction, gains the power of a Super Saiyan God through a pregnant Videl and an unborn Pan, still loses to said god twice, consents to the destruction of Earth (even though it doesn't happen). I like this style of writing, though. I've never been as shocked with DB as I have before until this movie.
Goku just consents to say "I give up". I'm not sure he purposely consents to Bils blowing up the Earth
Bills is the strongest guy they've ever faced. They fought with the fate of the Earth on the line. I'm pretty sure Goku understood that saying "I give up" to Bills pretty much means "Fine, go ahead and destroy the Earth." This isn't the first time we've seen Goku like this. I can't think of any examples in the original manga, but he did act this way the first time he lost to Baby Vegeta in GT.
I liked the twist, I like this story, I like Bills and Whis, I don't like how they opt for no blood but it could be due to wanted a G rating so they could spend more money on it, hopefully its different for a future series replacing GT, I want to see stuff like Baby dragging Gohan's face against concrete, it just adds grit to the enemies, they are scarier when they're malicious like that. I don't really like the design of SSG, but i have ideas of how that could be fixed in future stuff. I like the gags, especially drunk Gohan, and I like the quality of animation...that's basically my entire opinion so far.
