Always confused about the forms of Boo

mistershin · Post by **mistershin** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:07 pm

If Toriyama considers Birusu canon and puts him in the DB history, then I too consider BoG canon.

Amuro Ray · Post by **Amuro Ray** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:00 pm

Saiga wrote:Pure Boo is weaker in the manga, stronger in the anime.

In the manga, when Goku & Vegeta refer to him gaining power, that was when he was temporarily taking on the form he had after absorbing the South Kaioshin. Then he turns into Pure Boo and they regain their confidence.

This bullshit and wasn't implied ever in the manga.

Amuro Ray · Post by **Amuro Ray** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:07 pm

FindKenshi wrote:I'm of the opinion that Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu, and yes I can make my case using evidence strictly from the manga. I did not arrive at this idea easily, and I was a believer in the opposite camp for the majority of my web-posting DBZ fandom. However, after looking back over the story with hindsight, it's very clear to me that it was at least the author's intent that Goku > Gohan and Kid Buu > Super Buu, even if he arrived at that intent after going through a mid-story change. There is an interview in which he basically admits he didn't think Gohan was good enough for the role of the hero so he decided to bring Goku back and let him win the day.

Anyway, almost any argument for Super Buu > Kid Buu can be countered by various happenings in the manga. Won't get into detail here, though I'll probably make a big post with scans soon just out of boredom. Expect it in a couple days or so. As for a small example though, Herms brought up the whole

"Goku was afraid to fight Super Buu but was willing to fight Kid Buu."

In my manga, Goku suggested hiding out in Kaioshin Kai to come up with a plan first, and Buu warped there and forced him into a conflict. If that's not an accurate translation of the events, please let me know. Since when has "Gung Ho Goku" ever wanted to avoid conflict in favor of making up a plan? So, clearly, he was just as willing to fight Kid Buu as he was Super Buu--not very. Another small example: Super Buu supporters usually point out Goku saying they'd need to fuse to beat Super Buu, but wanting to fight Kid Buu without fusing. I'd personally point out that during the final battle, Goku literally states that he regretted breaking the Potara, and admits he was "trying to act too cool."

I've Always held this opinion myself.

Fox666 · Post by **Fox666** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:10 pm

Amuro Ray wrote:This bullshit and wasn't implied ever in the manga.

Why haven't you just said it before? You have completely changed my mind!!

Post by **VegettoEX** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:13 pm

No need for snark (from either side, here). If you have something worthwhile to add, by all means, type out your thoughts and reasoning behind it. We'd love to read it.

If all you have to post is a dismissive comment that adds nothing to any discussion, it's not worth posting in the first place.

Amuro Ray · Post by **Amuro Ray** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:14 pm

Fox666 wrote:
Amuro Ray wrote:This bullshit and wasn't implied ever in the manga.
Why haven't you just said it before? You have completely changed my mind!!

Sarcasm or not, it doesn't make my statement false.

Fox666 · Post by **Fox666** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:41 pm

Don't worry, I am starting to like you.

DBZGTKOSDH · Post by **DBZGTKOSDH** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:04 pm

Amuro Ray wrote:
Saiga wrote:Pure Boo is weaker in the manga, stronger in the anime.

In the manga, when Goku & Vegeta refer to him gaining power, that was when he was temporarily taking on the form he had after absorbing the South Kaioshin. Then he turns into Pure Boo and they regain their confidence.
This bullshit and wasn't implied ever in the manga.

Prove it then.

Fox666 · Post by **Fox666** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:39 pm

Wasn't Saiga post 10 days old?

DBZGTKOSDH · Post by **DBZGTKOSDH** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:39 pm

Fox666 wrote:Wasn't your post 10 days old?

What post? (Assuming that you are talking to me.)

Amuro Ray · Post by **Amuro Ray** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:48 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Amuro Ray wrote:
Saiga wrote:Pure Boo is weaker in the manga, stronger in the anime.

In the manga, when Goku & Vegeta refer to him gaining power, that was when he was temporarily taking on the form he had after absorbing the South Kaioshin. Then he turns into Pure Boo and they regain their confidence.
This bullshit and wasn't implied ever in the manga.
Prove it then.

What is there to prove? The whole universe is at stake, including otherworlds, and you think that everyone is ok with just "winging it?" Look at the context of the situation as a whole, and try to overcome your bias and see what the writer was trying to convey, that even TOEI seemed to interpret the situation as such. It's only recently that heavily flawed logic has overcome all other reasoning.

Fox666 · Post by **Fox666** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:01 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Fox666 wrote:Wasn't your post 10 days old?
What post? (Assuming that you are talking to me.)

Oh yeah, it Saiga who posted that, not you. Anyway it is an old post.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:11 am

Here's what I've been wondering:

What is Super Buu? He's not the original Buu, that's Kid Buu. He's not a Buu who actually can use the power of the Kais he absorbed, that's Buff Buu, who's stronger than Super Buu. And he's not the evil side of Fat Buu, that's Pure Evil Buu.

The Buff Buu point is what really confuses me. I always thought that Super Buu was Kid Buu + South Supreme Kai, hence why he's so strong, but he's not... so why is Super Buu so much stronger than Kid Buu?

And when Fat Buu expelled his evil, shouldn't he have expelled Kid Buu, not Gray Buu?

God, my head hurts...

Darkprince410 · Post by **Darkprince410** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:22 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:Here's what I've been wondering:

What is Super Buu? He's not the original Buu that's Kid Buu. He's not a Buu who actually can use the power of the Kais he absorbed, that's Buff Buu, who's stronger than Super Buu. And he's not the evil side of Fat Buu, that's Pure Evil Buu.

The Buff Buu point is what really confuses me. I always thought that Super Buu was Kid Buu + South Supreme Kai, hence why he's so strong, but he's not... so why is Super Buu so much stronger than Kid Buu?

Evil Buu (Super Buu) is the same make-up as Fat Buu (they're both Pure Buu and both South and Dai Kaioushin), but in the case of Evil Buu, the negative influence of Dai Kaioushin on his power isn't as profound as it was with Fat Buu. Evil Buu isn't as powerful as South Kaioushin Buu because there is some of Dai Kaioushin's influence in him, which is holding him back a bit, both physically and mentally.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:28 am

I see. So Super Buu is basically the half-way point between Fat Buu and Buff Buu.

Then what's Good Buu? He can't have the power of both of the Kais or he wouldn't be weaker than Kid Buu, since South Kai alone brought Buu from about as strong as SS3 Goku to scaring the crap out of Goku at the mere thought of facing him... without even having access to South Kai's full power. Is Good Buu somehow dragged down by the Grand Supreme Kai as well?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:30 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:Here's what I've been wondering: What is Super Buu? He's not the original Buu, that's Kid Buu. He's not a Buu who actually can use the power of the Kais he absorbed, that's Buff Buu, who's stronger than Super Buu. And he's not the evil side of Fat Buu, that's Pure Evil Buu.

Far as I can figure, he's a form of Boo who's got MOST of the total "Pure Boo + South Kaioshin" power of Buff Boo at his disposal, but not all of it, because he's still partially weakened by the Grand Kaioshin. Fat Boo is the result of the Grand Kaioshin's influence being in control and locking away most of that total compounded power. But with Evil ("Super") Boo, things are reversed, and with his evil side in control that good influence is minimized.

RandomGuy96 wrote:Then what's Good Buu? He can't have the power of both of the Kais or he wouldn't be weaker than Kid Buu, since South Kai alone brought Buu from about as strong as SS3 Goku to scaring the crap out of Goku at the mere thought of facing him... without even having access to South Kai's full power. Is Good Buu somehow dragged down by the Grand Supreme Kai as well?

Could be. Perhaps in all the back-and-forth expulsion and absorption shenanigans, Majin Boo was pretty much cloned as a result, and we ended up with one who's a copy but identical to the original in power and evil (the Pure Boo finished off by the Spirit Bomb), and the original who at the end of it is little more than a self-conflicted hodgepodge of clashing Kaioshin powers in Boo form.

Eternal Super Saiyan · Post by **Eternal Super Saiyan** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:34 am

Saiga wrote:Toriyama finding Gohan unsuitable for the role has nothing to do with power, as Gohan was obviously capable of defeating Evil Boo after his power up.

Yes, and also there is nothing that indicates Gohan not being able to beat Kid Buu. Just because he wasn't there to fight in the first place.... lol and it wouldn't make sense to put SSJ3 Goku > Gohan anyway. That's been a moot point for a while.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:55 am

Amuro Ray wrote:What is there to prove? The whole universe is at stake, including otherworlds, and you think that everyone is ok with just "winging it?"

And yet they crushed the magical item that would have let them save the universe with ease because they thought fighting as they were would be better.

Fox666 · Post by **Fox666** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:28 am

Kaboom wrote:Far as I can figure, he's a form of Boo who's got MOST of the total "Pure Boo + South Kaioshin" power of Buff Boo at his disposal, but not all of it, because he's still partially weakened by the Grand Kaioshin.

I don't really think that Evil Boo power was meant to be connected with the Kaioshins. He is just a powered-up version of the Majin Boo that was weakened by the Dai Kaioshin, and we didn't get much explanation.

Amuro Ray · Post by **Amuro Ray** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:47 am

I re-read the Manga last night, it never mentioned "superbuu" being stronger than "Fatbuu."

Kanzenshuu

Always confused about the forms of Boo

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