5, not 8.DNA wrote:Dragon Ball GT is actually 8 years after the end of Z
Your inside "fanon" things
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Your inside "fanon" things
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Makaioshin
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Re: Your inside "fanon" things
Haha, I think you forgot what thread this is.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:5, not 8.DNA wrote:Dragon Ball GT is actually 8 years after the end of Z
Anyway, since I take DBO as semi-canon I like to think Puar was a floating fuzzy brown egg at some point.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Your inside "fanon" things
Gah, now I got what he was meaning.Makaioshin wrote:Haha, I think you forgot what thread this is.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:5, not 8.DNA wrote:Dragon Ball GT is actually 8 years after the end of Z
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Your inside "fanon" things
Yeah, you totally forgot what this thread is about.
I was just talking to a friend and did the math around a bit and stumbled upon a perfect number of years to make more sense of GT.
At first I thought ten to be a good number but then I thought I was stretching a bit and the next Tenkaichi Budokai would be two years from then.
Then I decided that eight is a pretty good number of years, three more than the original and then the Tenkaichi Budokai will still be on the following year. Everything makes sense again.
With Gohan now officially turning Super Saiyan even after the unlocking of his potential, GT's holes are closing down. You can argue about Pilaf becoming a child, but I raise you another wish to "make them old again" and this time Shen Long made them too old. Presto.
GT makes sense if you interpret things differently and bend some rules.
I was just talking to a friend and did the math around a bit and stumbled upon a perfect number of years to make more sense of GT.
At first I thought ten to be a good number but then I thought I was stretching a bit and the next Tenkaichi Budokai would be two years from then.
Then I decided that eight is a pretty good number of years, three more than the original and then the Tenkaichi Budokai will still be on the following year. Everything makes sense again.
With Gohan now officially turning Super Saiyan even after the unlocking of his potential, GT's holes are closing down. You can argue about Pilaf becoming a child, but I raise you another wish to "make them old again" and this time Shen Long made them too old. Presto.
GT makes sense if you interpret things differently and bend some rules.
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ABED
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Re: Your inside "fanon" things
Gohan turning Super Saiyan doesn't bother me. He seems to slack off with his training, so I imagine he got soft.
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Re: Your inside "fanon" things
Gohan turning Super Saiyan in BoG doesn't mean one less plothole for GT, it means one more plothole for BoG. It's still not explained in either.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Your inside "fanon" things
Funny thing is, GT Perfect Files Vol. #1 states that Gohan did not neglect his training.ABED wrote:He seems to slack off with his training, so I imagine he got soft.
He doesn't turn into a Super Saiyan in BoG.Saiga wrote:Gohan turning Super Saiyan in BoG doesn't mean one less plothole for GT, it means one more plothole for BoG. It's still not explained in either.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Your inside "fanon" things
Actually, he does. In the Super Saiyan God scene.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:He doesn't turn into a Super Saiyan in BoG.Saiga wrote:Gohan turning Super Saiyan in BoG doesn't mean one less plothole for GT, it means one more plothole for BoG. It's still not explained in either.
They didn't correct all of their mistakes.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Your inside "fanon" things
It's likely part of the ritual for SSJ God. He can likely still go mystic.Saiga wrote:Gohan turning Super Saiyan in BoG doesn't mean one less plothole for GT, it means one more plothole for BoG. It's still not explained in either.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: Your inside "fanon" things
It never was a plot-hole to begin with. People always wanted to make it into a plot-hole whereas it was never stated that Gohan could not turn Super Saiyan after his power was unlocked. One state does not negate the other. The Elder Kaioshin simply stated it was useless.Saiga wrote:Gohan turning Super Saiyan in BoG doesn't mean one less plothole for GT, it means one more plothole for BoG. It's still not explained in either.
Yes he does.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:He doesn't turn into a Super Saiyan in BoG.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Your inside "fanon" things
Oh yeah.Saiga wrote:Actually, he does. In the Super Saiyan God scene.
They didn't correct all of their mistakes.
Still, it's not necessarily a mistake. No one ever said that Gohan can't turn into a Super Saiyan anymore in the manga.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Your inside "fanon" things
It's a plot hole because it's inconsistent with the way Gohan operates after receiving the power up in the manga. If he could go Super Saiyan, why didn't he? Is it that it doesn't make him more powerful? If so, why did he do it in GT? There's no explanation given.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
Re: Your inside "fanon" things
He didn't go because the drawback would make it less useful. There are a lot of unexplained things in GT, unexplained points are not plot-holes.Saiga wrote:It's a plot hole because it's inconsistent with the way Gohan operates after receiving the power up in the manga. If he could go Super Saiyan, why didn't he? Is it that it doesn't make him more powerful? If so, why did he do it in GT? There's no explanation given.
Maybe since Gohan is older is body can better take Super Saiyan and it turns useful again. Stop looking for plot-holes where they don't exist.
Re: Your inside "fanon" things
I'm not looking for plotholes where they don't exist. You have to make up your own explanations to justify it, and that makes it a plot hole. Unexplained events are plotholes when they're inconsistent with other events, and Gohan is inconsistent with Super Saiyan between the manga, BoG and GT.DNA wrote:He didn't go because the drawback would make it less useful. There are a lot of unexplained things in GT, unexplained points are not plot-holes.Saiga wrote:It's a plot hole because it's inconsistent with the way Gohan operates after receiving the power up in the manga. If he could go Super Saiyan, why didn't he? Is it that it doesn't make him more powerful? If so, why did he do it in GT? There's no explanation given.
Maybe since Gohan is older is body can better take Super Saiyan and it turns useful again. Stop looking for plot-holes where they don't exist.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Your inside "fanon" things
I'm not saying that Gohan can turn into an "Ultimate Super Saiyan". He can either power-up into his Ultimate state, or his Super Saiyan form. Rou Kaioshin told Gohan to get the gist of transforming into a Super Saiyan & throw in a Kiai, he didn't say him to transform into a Super Saiyan. The whole "Ultimate replaced Super Saiyan" is just a fan-conclusion, supported only by a Movie 13 magazine (which even said perhaps Gohan won't turn into a SS again).Saiga wrote:It's a plot hole because it's inconsistent with the way Gohan operates after receiving the power up in the manga. If he could go Super Saiyan, why didn't he? Is it that it doesn't make him more powerful? If so, why did he do it in GT? There's no explanation given.
It's like with Goku & Vegeta, they can either go Super Saiyan Grade 2, or Super Saiyan 2.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Your inside "fanon" things
But then why does he used it in GT in place of his Ultimate form? You can say he lost the Ultimate form, but that's just more fan wank to cover an inconsistency that was never explained. Plus he still has the Ultimate eyes.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I'm not saying that Gohan can turn into an "Ultimate Super Saiyan". He can either power-up into his Ultimate state, or his Super Saiyan form. Rou Kaioshin told Gohan to get the gist of transforming into a Super Saiyan & throw in a Kiai, he didn't say him to transform into a Super Saiyan.Saiga wrote:It's a plot hole because it's inconsistent with the way Gohan operates after receiving the power up in the manga. If he could go Super Saiyan, why didn't he? Is it that it doesn't make him more powerful? If so, why did he do it in GT? There's no explanation given.
It's like with Goku & Vegeta, they can either go Super Saiyan Grade 2, or Super Saiyan 2.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Your inside "fanon" things
I'm not talking about GT, I'm talking about BoG. In GT, he doesn't power-up into his Ultimate state, while he should have in major battles. I agree that in GT the absence of the Ultimate state is a plot-hole, but in BoG, Gohan goes both Ultimate & Super Saiyan, which confirms that he can either turn Ultimate, or Super Saiyan.Saiga wrote:But then why does he used it in GT in place of his Ultimate form? You can say he lost the Ultimate form, but that's just more fan wank to cover an inconsistency that was never explained. Plus he still has the Ultimate eyes.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Makaioshin
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Re: Your inside "fanon" things
This is why I'm fine with it in BoG. I don't really care about GT enough to come up with a reason as to why Gohan is Super Saiyan in it. Didn't mind him wearing kanji again though I would have preferred it if he wore the one Future Gohan had.DBZGTKOSDH wrote: I'm not saying that Gohan can turn into an "Ultimate Super Saiyan". He can either power-up into his Ultimate state, or his Super Saiyan form. Rou Kaioshin told Gohan to get the gist of transforming into a Super Saiyan & throw in a Kiai, he didn't say him to transform into a Super Saiyan. The whole "Ultimate replaced Super Saiyan" is just a fan-conclusion, supported only by a Movie 13 magazine (which even said perhaps Gohan won't turn into a SS again).
It's like with Goku & Vegeta, they can either go Super Saiyan Grade 2, or Super Saiyan 2.
Last edited by Makaioshin on Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Your inside "fanon" things
Which again, is not an inconsistency nor a plot-hole, simply something that was unexplained. Maybe he simply turned Super Saiyan to battle his brother in equal terms, he doesn't want to destroy his own brother's body. There are many, many ways you can reach a logical conclusion to this. Many things are not explained from the very beginning of the series, but since this is GT people like to point it out to say it sucks.Saiga wrote:But then why does he used it in GT in place of his Ultimate form? You can say he lost the Ultimate form, but that's just more fan wank to cover an inconsistency that was never explained. Plus he still has the Ultimate eyes.
Re: Your inside "fanon" things
You're missing the point. It doesn't stop being a plothole just because fans can come up with their own explanations for it. Otherwise, nothing would be a plothole. The series itself doesn't explain it, and it is inconsistent with how the manga handles it. These two factors make it a plothole, no matter what fanon is thought up.
@DBZGTKOSDH Ah, my mistake. Though, my argument still applies. The Super Saiyan God thing wasn't explained, he just sort of... does it, when he wasn't using it before. It's easy to rationalize, but it's still something that requires rationalisation.
Cold Skin has really explained it best here:
@DBZGTKOSDH Ah, my mistake. Though, my argument still applies. The Super Saiyan God thing wasn't explained, he just sort of... does it, when he wasn't using it before. It's easy to rationalize, but it's still something that requires rationalisation.
Cold Skin has really explained it best here:
Cold Skin wrote:Guys, guys. A plothole can be both something illogical that contradicts previous facts/explanations OR a lack of information about a plot detail that has been changed.
It is mostly subjective, some plotholes will be recognized as such by most fans while other will be more debatable.
If not explained, Kaio's planet reappearing can potentially be considered a plothole. A hole you can fill with various theories, but still a hole in the plot where instead there should have been a place labelled "the explanation as to why Kaio's planet is back", making the link between plot detail Planet exploded and plot detail Planet is back. A hole between plot point A and plot point B, a hole in the plot, a plothole.
So that depends on your perspective, but yes, a character leaving a house that explodes at the beginning of an episode and coming back at the end of the episode in an intact house as if nothing happened, will startle some fans as being a plothole, while others might say "yes, but we can imagine that it was just a dream / he was just imagining what it would be like if it exploded / it was just a metaphor or vision / someone rebuilt it / it's another identical house / a fairy happened to pass by", etc....
Last edited by Saiga on Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!