Does speed correlate with power?

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

What do you think?

In instances when fighters have demonstrating superior speed, they've, a lot of times, been shown to be stronger, in actuality, then their opponent; and every other instance is ambiguous.

Could the idea that some people are naturally more "fast" be dismissed as just being more powerful due to lack of evidence?

[Kaboom]

I'd say "usually." Most characters are pretty well-rounded, and their speed and other abilities increase steadily along with their raw power. But I think it's very possible to "specialize" in some thing or another. Butta was probably much faster than anyone else at his power level range, whether that be through special training, natural ability, or some sort of mutation.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

^ Maybe he was faster than everyone else because he was the strongest Ginyuu member aside from Ginyuu himself.

[Darkprince410]

I think that, while there is a connection, it's not necessarily a linear progression. Just because someone raises his power doesn't mean that he could raise his speed by the same amount, and vice versa. For example, when Gohan and Cell were fighting (before Gohan transforms into a Super Saiya-jin 2), he ramps up his speed while keeping his strength the same.

Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P6.4
Context: after fighting Gohan a little
Cell: “You’re a quick little brat…! How about I go all-out, in speed at least?”

Then there are instances where we know that the weaker individual is still faster, such as in the case of Goku (before using the Kaiou-ken) and Ginyu (who has powered up to a point where Goku couldn't break free of his hold)

Chapter: 284 (DBZ 90), P10.3
Ginyu: “He’s fast! Is his speed greater than mine?!”

Ginyu was chasing after him and poured on the speed, but Goku, while still sticking to not using the Kaiou-ken, was managing to pull away from him until Jheese distracted him.

Lastly, there are several instances of power-ups where people witnessing it specifically refer to the increase of speed as well as the increase in power, suggesting that the two aren't necessarily always connected.

[ABED]

Yes, there is a huge corrolation, but remember that corrolation isn't causation.

[B]

I would say so since it's never as if the weaker opponent ever actually outruns his pursuer in DB.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

Then there are instances where we know that the weaker individual is still faster, such as in the case of Goku (before using the Kaiou-ken) and Ginyu (who has powered up to a point where Goku couldn't break free of his hold)

Chapter: 284 (DBZ 90), P10.3
Ginyu: “He’s fast! Is his speed greater than mine?!”

Ginyu was chasing after him and poured on the speed, but Goku, while still sticking to not using the Kaiou-ken, was managing to pull away from him until Jheese distracted him.

I don't think Ginyuu nor Gokuu were using their full powers at this point; in fact, it seems possible, that, Ginyuu suspecting Gokuu was well above 60,000 /because/ his speed was "greater than his" in his current state of power, which he was probably suppressing to somewhere above 60,000 to play with Gokuu.

As for the Gohan comment, maybe he was fast because he was stronger than Cell and just increased speed without power like you said.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Kinda sorta. Speed is a very hard topic to discuss when it comes to Dragon Ball. Look at Burter. Pretty much Jeice's equal yet he is a great deal faster. Then there is SsjG3 Trunks, he is really powerful yet really slow. Speed seems to be determined by a sub component of your Ki since one thing raises and the other doesn't.

[Darkprince410]

Then there are instances where we know that the weaker individual is still faster, such as in the case of Goku (before using the Kaiou-ken) and Ginyu (who has powered up to a point where Goku couldn't break free of his hold)

Chapter: 284 (DBZ 90), P10.3
Ginyu: “He’s fast! Is his speed greater than mine?!”

Ginyu was chasing after him and poured on the speed, but Goku, while still sticking to not using the Kaiou-ken, was managing to pull away from him until Jheese distracted him.

I don't think Ginyuu nor Gokuu were using their full powers at this point; in fact, it seems possible, that, Ginyuu suspecting Gokuu was well above 60,000 /because/ his speed was "greater than his" in his current state of power, which he was probably suppressing to somewhere above 60,000 to play with Gokuu.

As for the Gohan comment, maybe he was fast because he was stronger than Cell and just increased speed without power like you said.

However, Ginyu was using enough of his strength that Goku was completely unable to break free of his hold under his own power, and was just getting ready to use the Kaiou-ken to escape when Ginyu let him go.

[Hitiro]

Speed can be an important factorisation in the strength of an individual. But someone with enough strength can match the strength of someone with a lot of speed. If we take normal physics then the faster someone can accelerate their punch the more powerful it will be. This has been used a lot in comics, particularly the ones about Flash, where accelerating the persons punch to lightspeed has provided a force equivalent to the power of a white dwarf star. In the Flash comics its called an "Infinite Mass Punch" as mass increases as you get closer to lightspeed. But being powerful doesn't mean you need to be fast. In comics again the most notable characters in the Marvel and DC universes can pack a punch but not be as fast as other characters in their respective universes. Such as the Hulk and Superman.

If you take this then somebody like Trunks may be very "powerful" but a weaker person may output more strength than him if they are much faster.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

However, Ginyu was using enough of his strength that Goku was completely unable to break free of his hold under his own power, and was just getting ready to use the Kaiou-ken to escape when Ginyu let him go.

It does seem confusing, but then it continues with Ginyuu accusing Gokuu of /still/ holding back power after he released him.

[Darkprince410]

However, Ginyu was using enough of his strength that Goku was completely unable to break free of his hold under his own power, and was just getting ready to use the Kaiou-ken to escape when Ginyu let him go.

It does seem confusing, but then it continues with Ginyuu accusing Gokuu of /still/ holding back power after he released him.

I think at the time that Ginyu called him out on it, Goku had already dropped back down to the level of power he was using to try and conceal his strength. Even considering that fact, Ginyu had accurately deduced Goku's battle power (without the Kaiou-ken) was near 90,000 (he said 85,000, which just going by actions and not by scouter readings is pretty close), which means, to me, that Goku was doing his full 90,000 spurts during the fight, and Ginyu, though unable to catch them on his scouter, was still able to judge that given Goku's actions.

[Savage68]

I would assume speed always goes hand in hand with power unless it's otherwise stated. I remember in the Namek arc, when Krillin had his latent power released by Saichoro, he exclaimed to himself about how much faster he could travel the planet after he first took flight.

[Saiga]

Doesn't Vegeta pretty much stated that is does against one of Freeza's goons?

[Tyro]

Doesn't Vegeta pretty much stated that is does against one of Freeza's goons?

I believe he said "If my strength increases then shouldn't my speed as well" or some such when he was fighting Kiwi.

[Bussani]

Yeah, but those statements don't exactly prove that power and speed are always the same from person to person--just that when one increases, the other will increase as well. Think of it like stats in a video game: two characters can have completely different stats, but it's only natural that all of those stats will increase if they level up. But like Kaboom says, practically everyone in Dragon Ball seems to have a decent balance, so "they're the same unless stated otherwise" is a perfectly reasonable rule to follow.

[Saiga]

Yeah, but those statements don't exactly prove that power and speed are always the same from person to person--just that when one increases, the other will increase as well. Think of it like stats in a video game: two characters can have completely different stats, but it's only natural that all of those stats will increase if they level up. But like Kaboom says, practically everyone in Dragon Ball seems to have a decent balance, so "they're the same unless stated otherwise" is a perfectly reasonable rule to follow.

I don't think people were trying to prove they were equal, I know I wasn't.

[Tyro]

Yeah, but those statements don't exactly prove that power and speed are always the same from person to person--just that when one increases, the other will increase as well. Think of it like stats in a video game: two characters can have completely different stats, but it's only natural that all of those stats will increase if they level up. But like Kaboom says, practically everyone in Dragon Ball seems to have a decent balance, so "they're the same unless stated otherwise" is a perfectly reasonable rule to follow.

I don't think people were trying to prove they were equal, I know I wasn't.

Me either. Just following up.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

However, Ginyu was using enough of his strength that Goku was completely unable to break free of his hold under his own power, and was just getting ready to use the Kaiou-ken to escape when Ginyu let him go.

It does seem confusing, but then it continues with Ginyuu accusing Gokuu of /still/ holding back power after he released him.

I think at the time that Ginyu called him out on it, Goku had already dropped back down to the level of power he was using to try and conceal his strength. Even considering that fact, Ginyu had accurately deduced Goku's battle power (without the Kaiou-ken) was near 90,000 (he said 85,000, which just going by actions and not by scouter readings is pretty close), which means, to me, that Goku was doing his full 90,000 spurts during the fight, and Ginyu, though unable to catch them on his scouter, was still able to judge that given Goku's actions.

You're probably right; but what difference would coaxing him to power up do, then? I think that might have implied he was using less than 90,000 in bursts. Admittingly, it wouldn't make much sense as to why Gokuu would have used Kaiou-ken; I guess it could still work and he might have tried using bursts of 90,000 to try to escape, but for most of the fight, I'm doubting it.