DBZ portion of Manga to be in full color?!

[Insertclevername]

How about the Kamehameha Gohan shoots a Boo's ball? Wasn't that yellow in the manga, as well in the anime?

[Tyro]

How about the Kamehameha Gohan shoots a Boo's ball? Wasn't that yellow in the manga, as well in the anime?

That chapter went uncolored in the original.

[JeffJarrett]

Goku uses it against Freeza's Nova Strike

Since when did Mega Man X terminology bleed over into Dragon Ball? Is this a common fan term now?

Shice this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4YbEfpvRPc&t=4m14s it an official term for the Dragon Ball franchise now.

[Ando38Z]

I'd die for a volume. . .

[Cold Skin]

Even if the golden Ki has a cool look, there isn't any good reason to go against the iconography of the series.

Possibly one good reason: the question "what could possibly be a good concept behind this choice?"

I like the blue Kame Hame Ha, but I just don't see how they even came to make it that colour.
I can understand how people could think a fireball coming from inside the body would be like fire, how energy inside the body could be pure white, how energy inside the body could be represented as golden (possibly simplified to yellow), how the Genki Dama symbolizing Earth would be blue...
But the concept behind energy coming from the body being blue, I don't see how you can think of that one when reading the manga and wondering what colour it could be (ignoring the anime).
I don't think many people would naturally see it as blue, so why keep some choice where you can't find a logic? That's probably what they thought: "so what? Should we make it blue just because someone at the anime staff thought it was blue? So what, we'll make an attack blue, another one green, another one red, another one pink, and make it look like Power Rangers style "the reader probably needs various colours to see how it's all different". Well, it's not any different, it's exactly the same energy blast, with the same kind of energy that anyone could use in a similar way if they trained to do it, there's no reason for one to be blue, another one to be purple, another one being yellow... We're the manga, the source material, we don't take it from the anime if we think they did something weird, so let's ignore it, look at those pictures everyone and tell me what colour the body energy should be". And they probably came up with golden/yellow, so why not?

OR, they thought about respecting Toriyama's white choice, but just couldn't leave such a special-effect attack all white for a color edition, so they thought: "what's the closest to white? Yellow!" - see subtitles which are yellow when they're not white, yellow being the next best thing when you can't have white.

Anyway, I'm glad that they took some risks like this, too many people are like "if it's not broken, don't fix it", I think it should be rather "it might be even better, do more with it, add some extra stuff, tweak parts here and there to tweak and enhance the global thing, and when we're done it might be even better, so we'll rework it again, etc..." Always room for improvement, always room for rediscovery, never stay on the same ground, always keep moving for more and more.
But I know I'm the weird one here, since 90% of the world is more like "it's always been like that, that's how it is by definition to us now, don't ever try to change it cause it will never be better" also known as the "nothing ever beats the original/what I've known until now" law of life.
There was probably some glitch in my mind about that!

[AgitoZ]

I like the blue Kame Hame Ha, but I just don't see how they even came to make it that colour.
I can understand how people could think a fireball coming from inside the body would be like fire, how energy inside the body could be pure white, how energy inside the body could be represented as golden (possibly simplified to yellow), how the Genki Dama symbolizing Earth would be blue...
But the concept behind energy coming from the body being blue, I don't see how you can think of that one when reading the manga and wondering what colour it could be (ignoring the anime).
I don't think many people would naturally see it as blue, so why keep some choice where you can't find a logic? That's probably what they thought: "so what? Should we make it blue just because someone at the anime staff thought it was blue? So what, we'll make an attack blue, another one green, another one red, another one pink, and make it look like Power Rangers style "the reader probably needs various colours to see how it's all different". Well, it's not any different, it's exactly the same energy blast, with the same kind of energy that anyone could use in a similar way if they trained to do it, there's no reason for one to be blue, another one to be purple, another one being yellow... We're the manga, the source material, we don't take it from the anime if we think they did something weird, so let's ignore it, look at those pictures everyone and tell me what colour the body energy should be". And they probably came up with golden/yellow, so why not?

The Kamehameha is a wave, waves are blue. It's not a stretch of the imagination, the body represented by yellow is.

Just because Vegeta remarks that their attacks are similar does not mean they should have the same color. The beams clashing do that well enough. Not to mention it also doesn't excuse other attacks being the same color.

OR, they thought about respecting Toriyama's white choice, but just couldn't leave such a special-effect attack all white for a color edition, so they thought: "what's the closest to white? Yellow!" - see subtitles which are yellow when they're not white, yellow being the next best thing when you can't have white.

There's is no way in hell anyone came to that conclusion. The major reason being that making the beams white was not an active choice by Toriyama. It was limitation with the medium he was working in.

Anyway, I'm glad that they took some risks like this, too many people are like "if it's not broken, don't fix it", I think it should be rather "it might be even better, do more with it, add some extra stuff, tweak parts here and there to enhance the tweak the global thing, and when we're done it might be even better, so we'll rework it again, etc..." Always room for improvement, always room for rediscovery, never stay on the same ground, always keep moving for more and more.
But I know I'm the weird one here, since 90% of the world is more like "it's always been like that, that's how it is by definition to us now, don't ever try to change it cause it will never be better" also known as the "nothing ever beats the original/what I've known until now" law of life.
There was probably some glitch in my mind about that!

They aren't taking risks, they are being lazy, uncreative, and coming off as "different for the sake of it."

This goes on to my main problem with the release. It's unnecessary. The absence of color is not a mistake that needs to be fixed. It would be different if the comic was still on-going, but it's not.

The sentiment of "always room for improvement" is a good one to have, but not for a finished work. We don't want to make the original unrecognizable. Imagine this kind of mentality for other works of art.

[Duo]

Goku uses it against Freeza's Nova Strike

Since when did Mega Man X terminology bleed over into Dragon Ball? Is this a common fan term now?

Shice this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4YbEfpvRPc&t=4m14s it an official term for the Dragon Ball franchise now.

Does the menu in that game name that attack Nova Strike or something? I wouldn't say that makes it "official" terminology...let's remember that Budokai 1 called Kaio-ken "King Kai Fist". A hilarious partial translation, but official?

[VegettoEX]

Does the menu in that game name that attack Nova Strike or something? I wouldn't say that makes it "official" terminology...let's remember that Budokai 1 called Kaio-ken "King Kai Fist". A hilarious partial translation, but official?

Fourth one down is: ノヴァストライク novua sutoraiku

[FindKenshi]

But wasn't it called "Death Ball" in Final Bout?

Death Ball is the name of that attack I grew up with, and many others. I don't remember hearing it called Supernova until Budokai 2 came out or whichever, in that case it was the name of Cooler's attack. Then I guess it just became the generic name for all big ball attacks the Cold family used?

[omegalucas]

But wasn't it called "Death Ball" in Final Bout?

Death Ball is the name of that attack I grew up with, and many others. I don't remember hearing it called Supernova until Budokai 2 came out or whichever, in that case it was the name of Cooler's attack. Then I guess it just became the generic name for all big ball attacks the Cold family used?

Nova Strike is the attack in which Freeza acts like a bullet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9JkCbFuXr4
(ignore the Orange Brickness of the video)

[Cold Skin]

The Kamehameha is a wave, waves are blue. It's not a stretch of the imagination, the body represented by yellow is.

Just because Vegeta remarks that their attacks are similar does not mean they should have the same color. The beams clashing do that well enough. Not to mention it also doesn't excuse other attacks being the same color.

Good call for the wave thing!
Yet, I don't buy that energy is a nice little rainbow that colors itself differently for a same kind of attack. It seems logical that a blast is blast for everybody.
It's like if you gave all humans the power to throw flames: would some be purple, others green, and others blue, just because the person is different? Not in my vision of things, flames are flames, energy blasts are energy blasts.
I could buy that different races would have different colors for their Ki, but not that two Saiyans using a same Ki trick would have it colored differently.

The sentiment of "always room for improvement" is a good one to have, but not for a finished work. We don't want to make the original unrecognizable. Imagine this kind of mentality for other works of art.

That's where our opinions differ: to me, a work is never finished. It's like the expanding universe: by the time you reach the end and say "that's where it's finished", there's already more to explore and take in account.
You don't leave Dragon Ball Z as it is because it's "finished", you make Dragon Ball Kai. And when Kai is done, you try to improve it yet again in a few years. And again, and again, and again.
You don't leave Super Mario Bros. as it is just because the developers were satisfied with how they went around limitations back then, you try to make it better with the version included in Super Mario All-Stars because since then, new possibilities have opened up.
The world is moving on, the people are constantly transforming (it's even in our very physical and mental nature), so should any work to be in sync with the people.
The fact that "something was a good idea" back then doesn't mean there's not a better concept to try nowadays, and if we can, why shouldn't we?

That doesn't mean the original "finished" works must be lost: there can be "save states" along the way, the Tankobon edition is still available, the Kanzenban edition is still available...
You leave checkpoints for those who want to stop there and don't like the next evolution/updates/corrections, but you should always keep it evolving, even if you stop doing it yourself and leave it to other people.
Correcting this because it was a weird concept, arranging that because it's more intense that way, etc...

We don't sleep on a bed of bones just because they decided it was the best way to go back then and everybody thought it was "the norm", "what a bed is by definition", we tried other things and decided that our current bed was a much more logical twist to the concept and went with it.
Same goes with the Kame Hame Ha, you don't stick to decisions other mades long ago, times change, people in charge change, and you just re-think about it to see if there's a best way to handle it.
For all we know, the one(s) deciding about the color possibly not even knew about what they looked like in the anime if they only checked the character designs for it, and just went with what they thought seemed logical.
So should we blame them for not being a prisonner of the anime, which tried itself to come up with its own colors? If you write an essay on a subject that's already been covered years ago, should we blame you if you don't develop the exact same ideas that were developed by someone else back then, if instead you go your own way because you think this direction might bring a more compelling result, bringing your own vision of things that will be new to everyone and open their minds on new interpretations of facts and new horizons instead of revisting old grounds?

Really, people are free to have their opinions, and I'll respect those even if I don't agree, but I'll always find a shame that lots of people let themselves be drowned in pure nostalgia and thinking something is meant to be that way because it was that way back then and should never change.
There is not one single thing on Earth, that should never change. Not one single thing is "perfect as it is", "untouchable" and "should always be the same way".
Even Toriyama said, and I found that he's quite a clever man for that, that he considered good that other people would take over for him and try to improve on what he'd done, do the good things he could not do, find the good ideas he could not find. Colors in the manga are one of the possible improvement other people can handle.

This goes on to my main problem with the release. It's unnecessary. The absence of color is not a mistake that needs to be fixed. It would be different if the comic was still on-going, but it's not.

Yeah, that's what improvement is, unnecessary because it's built on something perfectly fine, but enjoyable because it's even better or at the very least gives a new way to explore something.
If there was a mistake, a flaw that needed to be fixed, it wouldn't be improving, it would be repairing/fixing.
We know that edition is not about fixing anything, it's about adding something more, not because it's necessary, but because it's nice and fresh, and can potentially magnify the whole experience.
Colors in this manga are like bonuses on DVDs: no, they're not necessary to enjoy the work already offered, but yes, as extra additions, they can possibly help you have a new vision of it and perhaps even appreciate it a little bit more sometimes.

[Tyro]

OR, they thought about respecting Toriyama's white choice, but just couldn't leave such a special-effect attack all white for a color edition, so they thought: "what's the closest to white? Yellow!" - see subtitles which are yellow when they're not white, yellow being the next best thing when you can't have white.

There's is no way in hell anyone came to that conclusion. The major reason being that making the beams white was not an active choice by Toriyama. It was limitation with the medium he was working with.

He's definitely talking about the occasions when the kanzenban used full-color pages and left the Kamehameha white, like in my previous example. He's probably not talking about the (obviously) white Kamehameha appearing in a black-and-white comic during a black-and-white chapter. Check out SSj Goku using his Kamehameha on 100% Freeza; you'll see it for yourself.

Again, I'm not unopen to the idea of the Kamehameha being another color, but it's been blue for so long that I feel like there has to be some kind of official manga artwork using it. I think someone already brought this up but the only time I remember the Kamehameha being yellow is in Budokai 1. The blue is as iconic to me as the Kamehameha itself.

[AgitoZ]

You don't leave Dragon Ball Z as it is because it's "finished", you make Dragon Ball Kai. And when Kai is done, you try to improve it yet again in a few years. And again, and again, and again.

But the difference with Kai was that the TV series had some serious problems with it. Also I believe literally everyone agreed it should've just been a new series instead of a reedit.

You don't leave Super Mario Bros. as it is just because the developers were satisfied with how they went around limitations back then, you try to make it better with the version included in Super Mario All-Stars because since then, new possibilities have opened up.
The world is moving on, the people are constantly transforming (it's even in our very physical and mental nature), so should any work to be in sync with the people.
The fact that "something was a good idea" back then doesn't mean there's not a better concept to try nowadays, and if we can, why shouldn't we?

But the developers did. Super Mario Bros. isn't continuously being remade. And like the colorized versions, All Stars does not add anything significant. The better music and graphics are nice additions but they aren't necessary as the gameplay was already good and does not need to be changed. If it did they should just make a new game, which they did.

That doesn't mean the original "finished" works must be lost: there can be "save states" along the way, the Tankobon edition is still available, the Kanzenban edition is still available...
You leave checkpoints for those who want to stop there and don't like the next evolution/updates/corrections, but you should always keep it evolving, even if you stop doing it yourself and leave it to other people.

I knew I was gonna regret not mentioning that the original is still available. It's the reason why I'm not exactly mad or anything.

We don't sleep on a bed of bones just because they decided it was the best way to go back then and everybody thought it was "the norm", "what a bed is by definition", we tried other things and decided that our current bed was a much more logical twist to the concept and went with it.
Same goes with the Kame Hame Ha, you don't stick to decisions other mades long ago, times change, people in charge change, and you just re-think about it to see if there's a best way to handle it.
For all we know, the one(s) deciding about the color possibly not even knew about what they looked like in the anime if they only checked the character designs for it, and just went with what they thought seemed logical.
So should we blame them for not being a prisonner of the anime, which tried itself to come up with its own colors? If you write an essay on a subject that's already been covered years ago, should we blame you if you don't develop the exact same ideas that were developed by someone else back then, if instead you go your own way because you think this direction might bring a more compelling result, bringing your own vision of things that will be new to everyone and open their minds on new interpretations of facts and new horizons instead of revisting old grounds?

This isn't a social or political view, it's a dumb comic from the 1980s. I hope you can understand that I want it to remain the dumb comic that I liked.

There's nothing wrong with looking for new horizons. But this is not the way to go (and for that matter neither is Dragon Ball SD). I'd be fine if this a continuation or a retelling, but it's not. It's yet another re-release, that I don't care about, further deluding people from reading the original.

Really, people are free to have their opinions, and I'll respect those even if I don't agree, but I'll always find a shame that lots of people let themselves be drowned in pure nostalgia and thinking something is meant to be that way because it was that way back then and should never change.
There is not one single thing on Earth, that should never change. Not one single thing is "perfect as it is", "untouchable" and "should always be the same way".
Even Toriyama said, and I found that he's quite a clever man for that, that he considered good that other people would take over for him and try to improve on what he'd done, do the good things he could not do, find the good ideas he could not find. Colors in the manga are one of the possible improvement other people can handle.

I don't want comics to stay stuck in the 1980s (good God no), but I do want comics from the 1980s to stay that way. All the flaws, limitations, etc made Dragon Ball what it was, "improving" those things make it not Dragon Ball.

Going by your video game comparison, if I truly was just "drowning in nostalgia" I would be wanting to keep playing rehash of older games instead of new incarnations or IPs, which I don't.

Yeah, that's what improvement is, unnecessary because it's built on something perfectly fine, but enjoyable because it's even better or at the very least gives a new way to explore something.
If there was a mistake, a flaw that needed to be fixed, it wouldn't be improving, it would be repairing/fixing.
We know that edition is not about fixing anything, it's about adding something more, not because it's necessary, but because it's nice and fresh, and can potentially magnify the whole experience.
Colors in this manga are like bonuses on DVDs: no, they're not necessary to enjoy the work already offered, but yes, as extra additions, they can possibly help you have a new vision of it and perhaps even appreciate it a little bit more sometimes.

But it doesn't. Adding color doesn't improve the comic, the colors lack life and therefore suck the life Toriyama's panels. An addition could be "nice and fresh" but it's not this time. Adding color to King Kong doesn't make it better, if anything it makes it look worse because it wasn't originally filmed that way.

This isn't a bonus feature I can just ignore if I have no interest in, it's a "new" product. One that I have zero interest in and could potentially disinterest those looking into the original comic.

[Duo]

Helpful information

No kidding. Did Freeza ever use that attack in the Dimps series of Dragon Ball games?

On-topic: I'm wondering if there are going to be any more re-colorings in this version of the Manga that strongly defy the TV interpretation. What color was Gohan's gi during the Saiyan fight in the update Manga?

[JeffJarrett]

Did Freeza ever use that attack in the Dimps series of Dragon Ball games?

In Budokai 2 and Shin Budokai - Another Road.

[Duo]

Did Freeza ever use that attack in the Dimps series of Dragon Ball games?

In Budokai 2 and Shin Budokai - Another Road.

What name did they come up with for it?

[JeffJarrett]

Death Crasher

[omegalucas]

On-topic: I'm wondering if there are going to be any more re-colorings in this version of the Manga that strongly defy the TV interpretation. What color was Gohan's gi during the Saiyan fight in the update Manga?

Purple gi, blue wristbands and red belt. Basically his Namek arc manga colors (in one of the colored chapters of the Saiyan arc in the colorless original manga he had a green gi).

EDIT: Just bought the Saiyan arc volumes from CDJapan (I had pre-ordered them a few months ago but ended up canceling the order).
By the way, what's Kaio's color scheme in this? It looked like he had the anime colors (he shows up in the corner of one of the covers) but then I found this when browsing the web...

[Makaioshin]

EDIT: Just bought the Saiyan arc volumes from CDJapan (I had pre-ordered them a few months ago but ended up canceling the order).
By the way, what's Kaio's color scheme in this? It looked like he had the anime colors (he shows up in the corner of one of the covers) but then I found this when browsing the web...
<snip>

That is from the previews found on the mangabroadcast page I linked before. I'm guessing the anime look is just from the green tint but he has his Kanzenban cover colors in the manga.
But yeah, there are a lot of differences between this and the anime's colors. Another one that is very different is that it looks like Red has the same colors he did in the original manga(white hair + red eye patch).

[Cold Skin]

Wow, for some reason I thought I remembered Kaio had anime colors in some preview page or something from a while back, but apparently not!
So they even use some of the Kanzenban covers colors?! Okay, now I'm dreaming of a red-skin Kaioshin and blue-skin Kibito! But realistically, those won't happen because while Kaio never appeared on colored pages and always had different colors in every artwork, Kaio Shin did appear in full-color pages, so that will likely be the version they'll use.

Glad Kaio gets his Kanzenban colors, those really make him more stylish!

And AgitoZ, I do understand your point of view given your natural preferences about how an old product (and this manga) should be handled, and since you feel like colors take something away from the original rather than adding something.
Glad we had that instructive discussion, it's always nice knowing how perceptions can differ.