Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

[TonyTheTiger]

My gut instinct is that at these levels it mostly comes down to durability. Barring reality warping shenanigans, when both competitors can freely shatter planets it becomes a contest over who can tank the most.

What can Kratos tank? I know Goku can tank attacks that can destroy planets more than 5,000x bigger than Earth as a SSJ on Namek.

Yeah, I don't know how durable Kratos is. But I get the impression that he wouldn't survive what Goku can hit him with.

[ABEAR]

Argument: “Cell was going to destroy the solar system one planet at a time.”
Counter Argument: “That line never appeared in the manga or anime.”

Argument: “Cell was going to destroy the sun.”
Counter Argument: “That statement never appeared in the manga or anime. What Akira Toriyama, the author, wrote for Cell is “I’ve already gathered enough ki power to blow away not only the Earth, but the solar system as well!” That’s what appears in the manga and is therefore OFFICIAL.” (Thanks to DBZGTKOSDH at kanzenshuu for the correction.) The solar system includes the sun and all of the planets. It shouldn’t be taken out of context.

Argument: “Cell was bluffing and lied.”
Counter Argument: “Internet nerds said that. But neither the author of the story nor the company he worked for have ever said that. The characters in the story never said that either. It is NOT official and NEVER appears in the story ever.”

Argument: “There’s no additional proof Cell can do that.”
Counter Argument: “The Japanese company printed a guidebook that states Cell can destroy the solar system. This is NOT Internet Nerd opinion, but from OFFICIAL SOURCES; it COUNTS infinitely more than ANY NERD’S OPINION, mine included.”

Argument: “Cell’s beam didn’t look that impressive.”
Counter Argument: “Piccolo, when he was weak at the beginning of the story, could blow up the moon with a casual normal level energy blast WITHOUT CHARGING HIS ENERGY. While at that same level of power he could not harm Raditz, Goku’s evil brother, so Piccolo CHARGED HIS ENERGY and focused his energy into a small and narrow beam and killed Raditz while Goku held him, so small and narrow beams are usually at higher power than wide beams.

Argument: “The solar system is too big for a small blast to destroy.”
Counter Argument: Piccolo blew up the moon with a beam, the front of which was like 6 INCHES wide. The moon is 2,000 MILES across. 5,280 feet in a mile. Times 2000 miles is 10,560,000 FEET. 6 INCHES DIVIDES INTO THAT 21,120,000 TIMES. The moon was 21 million and 120 thousand times larger than the beam that destroyed it!


http://abear77.wordpress.com/2013/03/20 ... ignorance/

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Argument: “Cell was going to destroy the solar system one planet at a time.”

Counter Argument: “That line never appeared in the manga or anime.”

Counter Counter Argument: "Read the manga again. And watch the anime again. And then watch Kai again. And then check if the anime is in Japanese (with properly translated subs if you don't understand Japanese), and check if the manga is in Japanese, or properly translated. If you do that, you will hear & read this line for three times."

Chapter: 415 (DBZ 221), P3.2, P4.2
Context: while charging the Kamehameha
Cell: “I’ve already gathered enough ki power to blow away not only the Earth, but the solar system as well!”
Random people far away: “Wh-what’s happening!?” “It’s an earthquake…!”

[VegettoEX]

What this means to me is that every single person who gets impatient and e-mails me about activating their forum account just wants to come post something here that links to their outside blog complaining about the "Death Battle" video instead of actively engaging with the on-going conversation.

Which, in turn, makes me a sad Mike .

[ABEAR]

What this means to me is that every single person who gets impatient and e-mails me about activating their forum account just wants to come post something here that links to their outside blog complaining about the "Death Battle" video instead of actively engaging with the on-going conversation.

Which, in turn, makes me a sad Mike .

Well, I'm sorry Mike. You have a fine Dragon Ball Z website and I wish you the best. It's just that I've been arguing character battles for over a decade. This is right up my alley. I mean you no harm, disrespect, or unhappiness. I prefer powerful characters most of the time. Superman probably would beat Goku, but that's not the point. It's all the Goku hate I've been getting from Superman fans. They need to learn some respect for Goku. I also want to add I love everyone and don't hate anyone, neither Goku nor Superman. Versus battles are an old thing for me along with RPGs. I sort of have to do them, although I'm trying to stop.

[Hellspawn28]

Kratos wouldn't even touch Goku, from what I remember Kratos isn't fast at all, and hasn't done anything to show he's anywhere near planet busting level.

I remember he can doge lighting from Zeus in the first or second game (It been a while since I played them). I think DBZ characters should able to doge lighting since lighting can move different speeds.

“The Japanese company printed a guidebook that states Cell can destroy the solar system. This is NOT Internet Nerd opinion, but from OFFICIAL SOURCES; it COUNTS infinitely more than ANY NERD’S OPINION, mine included.”

I remember the episode guide said that, but none of the info in the attack guide said that from what I can remember.

[Rocketman]

Kratos wouldn't even touch Goku, from what I remember Kratos isn't fast at all, and hasn't done anything to show he's anywhere near planet busting level.

Comparing Kratos to other guys is somewhat difficult because Kratos exists in a different reality. There are no "planets" as we know them, only the flat Earth with the solid dome of the sky above it and Hades below. The Sun is not a giant ball of nuclear fire, but the Chariot of Helios.

But yes, regular Kratos is nowhere near fast enough to catch or block Goku. His sheer overwhelming might, however, means that if he did get his leathery mitts on the Saiyan, Goku would get brutalized in short order. Also, y'know...Medusa's Gaze.

God Kratos, meanwhile, effortlessly destroys Goku.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

Rocketman can you tell me some feats from God Kratos? I haven't played GOW in quite some time.

[dbzfan7]

Rocketman can you tell me some feats from God Kratos? I haven't played GOW in quite some time.

God Kratos never did anything special. I have GOW2 and if God Kratos was so powerful he would have wiped out the whole city he was in effortlessly. But he couldn't even do that as he lost most of his power instantly. Even with his power in the sword of Olympus, the biggest feat was clearing a city with Zeus using the sword. God Kratos hasn't even shown planet busting feats. None of those Gods in God of War are that tough compared to the comic versions and none of them have shown planet busting feats. Until I see a planet busting feat in GOW, then God Kratos can't do nothing. The GOW gods aren't anything special as they are toned down from mythology and comics.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

Oh yeah, the GoW gods are really watered down power wise compared to the mythology versions.

Hellspawn28 wasn't Popo implying that he was faster than lightning? IMO he was implying that.

[dbzfan7]

Oh yeah, the GoW gods are really watered down power wise compared to the mythology versions.

God Kratos is nothing special. Just like the rest of the watered down gods. He destroys cities at a time. If he was so powerful he could just destroy every city in one blow, yet he still has warriors go in and conquer areas. If he was so powerful then the Sparta warriors could kick back and wouldn't have to do anything. Ares didn't even finish destroying Athens throughout the whole GOW 1 game. The Gods in this game are not powerful. The only remotely powerful thing is the Blade of Olympus, and even that hasn't shown planet busting feats.

[Kakarot88]

Argument: “Cell was going to destroy the solar system one planet at a time.”

Counter Argument: “That line never appeared in the manga or anime.”

Counter Counter Argument: "Read the manga again. And watch the anime again. And then watch Kai again. And then check if the anime is in Japanese (with properly translated subs if you don't understand Japanese), and check if the manga is in Japanese, or properly translated. If you do that, you will hear & read this line for three times."

Counter Counter Counter Argument: ABEAR is right. Below are the videos you stated which show Cell NEVER said he was going planet hopping after he had gather enough power to blow away the entire solar system or whatever you said:

Funimation American dub:
http://youtu.be/nD2i9eGdhTM?t=5m38s (5 min 38sec) ...now in that dub he does discuss Planet hopping BEFORE he states he has enough power to do MORE than that.


Kai American dub:
http://youtu.be/GoscCze3bJc?t=5m42s (5 min 42s)

Japanese Subtitles from the Funimation Z dub:


Japanese Subtitles, but I am not sure from which series whether it is Kai:

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Argument: “Cell was going to destroy the solar system one planet at a time.”

Counter Argument: “That line never appeared in the manga or anime.”

Counter Counter Argument: "Read the manga again. And watch the anime again. And then watch Kai again. And then check if the anime is in Japanese (with properly translated subs if you don't understand Japanese), and check if the manga is in Japanese, or properly translated. If you do that, you will hear & read this line for three times."

Counter Counter Counter Argument: ABEAR is right.

Yeah, I misread ABEAR's post. I thought he said that Cell never said that he would destroy the Solar System with one attack... (I was doing a quick read from my mobile phone.)
But since he credited me for correcting him, I think that he did (falsely) say that Cell never said that he could destroy the Solar System.

[Bussani]

Argument: “Cell was going to destroy the solar system one planet at a time.”
Counter Argument: “That line never appeared in the manga or anime.”

Argument: “Cell was going to destroy the sun.”
Counter Argument: “That statement never appeared in the manga or anime. What Akira Toriyama, the author, wrote for Cell is “I’ve already gathered enough ki power to blow away not only the Earth, but the solar system as well!” That’s what appears in the manga and is therefore OFFICIAL.” (Thanks to DBZGTKOSDH at kanzenshuu for the correction.) The solar system includes the sun and all of the planets. It shouldn’t be taken out of context.

It's true that Cell doesn't say he'll destroy the solar system one planet at a time, or destroy the Sun; but at the same time, he doesn't say how he's going to destroy the solar system, either. In fact, he doesn't say he's going to destroy the solar system at all--he just says that he has enough ki to do so. That's why people start wondering how he would do it. Would his Kamehameha simply engulf the solar system? That's where this part comes in:

Argument: “Cell’s beam didn’t look that impressive.”
Counter Argument: “Piccolo, when he was weak at the beginning of the story, could blow up the moon with a casual normal level energy blast WITHOUT CHARGING HIS ENERGY. While at that same level of power he could not harm Raditz, Goku’s evil brother, so Piccolo CHARGED HIS ENERGY and focused his energy into a small and narrow beam and killed Raditz while Goku held him, so small and narrow beams are usually at higher power than wide beams.

Argument: “The solar system is too big for a small blast to destroy.”
Counter Argument: Piccolo blew up the moon with a beam, the front of which was like 6 INCHES wide. The moon is 2,000 MILES across. 5,280 feet in a mile. Times 2000 miles is 10,560,000 FEET. 6 INCHES DIVIDES INTO THAT 21,120,000 TIMES. The moon was 21 million and 120 thousand times larger than the beam that destroyed it!

It's not that Cell's Kamehameha looks weak--it's that it doesn't look wide enough to engulf the solar system. Also, unlike the Moon, the solar system isn't one, solid object. Even if you had the most powerful 6 inch wide Makankosappo in the universe, how could that take out the solar system, which is made up of multiple targets? That's why people start wondering: "Okay, so if he had enough ki to destroy the solar system, what does that mean? Blow up the Sun? Take out Earth planet one by one? Sit outside the solar system and fire a beam wide enough to wipe it all out?"

Keep in mind I'm not saying that Cell couldn't destroy the solar system with one, huge attack. That's not the point I want to make. I just think we need to understand exactly what people are getting at when they say these things.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

The only way I could picture Cell destroying the solar system with that blast would be through the explosion.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I just say Cell supercharges the sun with enough energy to make it go Supernova and the Supernova effectively takes it out over time. Either that or Cell has enough energy to destroy the cumulative mass of the entire Solar System.

[ABEAR]

I just say Cell supercharges the sun with enough energy to make it go Supernova and the Supernova effectively takes it out over time. Either that or Cell has enough energy to destroy the cumulative mass of the entire Solar System.

Although movie 8 is not canon, probably we're doubting too much and maybe over thinking it. Brolly, SOMEHOW , destroyed a galaxy in that movie. Maybe in Akira Toriyama's mind and at Toei, it doesn't matter? Fantasy is fantasy, so I can only wonder if they thought as deeply about it as we do. My guess is that their first concerns would be quality, making deadlines, and making money. Saint Saiya and Gurren Laggan "just do it cause they have the power." Marvel Comics and DC Comics "just do it cause they have the power." I can't speak for the company or the author, but that's probably how it works. Some stories have characters who can destroy the universe. How can you blow up some that big? DC Comics has guys who "punch reality" until it shakes and cracks.

[TheMightyOzaru]

-_-. Please don't ever ever ever say Broly is a Galaxy buster. I am so sick and fucking tired of this stupid "Oh Broly is a Galaxy buster!" bull shit. Kaio sama not only said the south Galaxy was being attacked but Goku fucking travels to the South Galaxy in the movie and you can see the stars in the background. The entire movie also takes place in the Southern Galaxy. Broly is no Galaxy buster. Hell he can't even destroy the Sun since he is much weaker than SPC in movie 8.

[ABEAR]

-_-. Please don't ever ever ever say Broly is a Galaxy buster. I am so sick and fucking tired of this stupid "Oh Broly is a Galaxy buster!" bull shit. Kaio sama not only said the south Galaxy was being attacked but Goku fucking travels to the South Galaxy in the movie and you can see the stars in the background. The entire movie also takes place in the Southern Galaxy. Broly is no Galaxy buster. Hell he can't even destroy the Sun since he is much weaker than SPC in movie 8.

Dragon Ball Z has it's plot holes like "let's kill kami and bring him back with the Dragon Balls!" So it doesn't bother me. Let's just say he destroyed parts of it or most of it in that NON-CANON, possibly alternate timeline story.

[TheMightyOzaru]

-_-. Please don't ever ever ever say Broly is a Galaxy buster. I am so sick and fucking tired of this stupid "Oh Broly is a Galaxy buster!" bull shit. Kaio sama not only said the south Galaxy was being attacked but Goku fucking travels to the South Galaxy in the movie and you can see the stars in the background. The entire movie also takes place in the Southern Galaxy. Broly is no Galaxy buster. Hell he can't even destroy the Sun since he is much weaker than SPC in movie 8.

Dragon Ball Z has it's plot holes like "let's kiil kami and bring him back with the Dragon Balls!" So it doesn't bother me. Let's just say he destroyed parts of it or most of it in that NON-CANON, possibly alternate timeline story.

On yeah let's ignore several points that make it impossible for Broly to be Galaxy buster. Yeah try again. No one has displayed a power of that magnitude and if you are trying to say Ssj Goku with the energy of his half beaten to death friends, who beat Broly, is a Galaxy buster then I have no words. There is no official canon to DBZ. Broly is canon if people want him to be. Also no, I agree that Broly wrecked and destroyed hundreds, maybe even thousands, of planets but he likely destroyed no stars and certainly no solar systems. You do realize that Goku might be having a brain fart when he agrees to the idea of wishing Kami back to life right? It happens.