Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

[VegettoEX]

Yeah try again.

Is there something in the water today...? Full moon that no-one told me about...?

Please stop talking to your fellow fans like this, folks. It's completely unacceptable.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Yeah try again.

Is there something in the water today...? Full moon that no-one told me about...?

Please stop talking to your fellow fans like this, folks. It's completely unacceptable.

Sorry sorry, I just get really annoyed when people bring up the whole Broly is a Galaxy buster fiasco.

[ABEAR]

-_-. Please don't ever ever ever say Broly is a Galaxy buster. I am so sick and fucking tired of this stupid "Oh Broly is a Galaxy buster!" bull shit. Kaio sama not only said the south Galaxy was being attacked but Goku fucking travels to the South Galaxy in the movie and you can see the stars in the background. The entire movie also takes place in the Southern Galaxy. Broly is no Galaxy buster. Hell he can't even destroy the Sun since he is much weaker than SPC in movie 8.

Dragon Ball Z has it's plot holes like "let's kiil kami and bring him back with the Dragon Balls!" So it doesn't bother me. Let's just say he destroyed parts of it or most of it in that NON-CANON, possibly alternate timeline story.

On yeah let's ignore several points that make it impossible for Broly to be Galaxy buster. Yeah try again. No one has displayed a power of that magnitude and if you are trying to say Ssj Goku with the energy of his half beaten to death friends, who beat Broly, is a Galaxy buster then I have no words. There is no official canon to DBZ. Broly is canon if people want him to be. Also no, I agree that Broly wrecked and destroyed hundreds, maybe even thousands, of planets but he likely destroyed no stars and certainly no solar systems. You do realize that Goku might be having a brain fart when he agrees to the idea of wishing Kami back to life right? It happens.

What I mean is it's not part of the manga so it doesn't count anyway. I just look at movie 8 as an alternate universe where Goku and co are stronger than normal.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Well if someone does consider Broly canon he does count. Alternate universe or not.

[ABEAR]

Well if someone does consider Broly canon he does count. Alternate universe or not.

I hope you know that destroying the solar system can mean a multitude of things =/. Cell wouldn't even destroy the Solar System because the heat released by the sun exploding would effectively incinerate Cell. In case you haven't noticed DBZ characters don't respond to heat well. Destroying the solar system ONLY requires you to destroy the sun which would take away the gravity holding the planets in place. Actually SSJ4 doesn't have an official multiplier, it's just generally accepted at 10x.

I got your email ThePrinceOfSaiyajins AKA TheMightyOzaru.
I'm just wondering. Why don't you support Goku more? Most fans would look for reasonable high level statements/ feats and use them. Why don't you? Anyway I'm getting kind of tired of all these nerd fights and battles. I'll probably leave the blog up there, but then give up on it on a personal level. It's just not worth the perpetual time I have to put into it. Bye the way, Cell could teleport to other world or to another planet like Namek. Goku did it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKdt2nlDqTM

[Rocketman]

Ares didn't even finish destroying Athens throughout the whole GOW 1 game. The Gods in this game are not powerful.

Because he was having fun torturing the populace and smashing Athena's things.

Helios is outright stated to have enough power to destroy everything.

Rocketman can you tell me some feats from God Kratos? I haven't played GOW in quite some time. :)

It's not about the feats really (though I think God Kratos could easily smash Goku by strength alone) it's about who and what he is - the God of War. All fighting, all anger, all rage, all nasty words are part of Kratos' domain.

Kratos says "stop." and all fighting stops. Everywhere, for any reason. Goku can't even get angry that he can't fight.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Well if someone does consider Broly canon he does count. Alternate universe or not.

I hope you know that destroying the solar system can mean a multitude of things =/. Cell wouldn't even destroy the Solar System because the heat released by the sun exploding would effectively incinerate Cell. In case you haven't noticed DBZ characters don't respond to heat well. Destroying the solar system ONLY requires you to destroy the sun which would take away the gravity holding the planets in place. Actually SSJ4 doesn't have an official multiplier, it's just generally accepted at 10x.

I got your email ThePrinceOfSaiyajins AKA TheMightyOzaru.
I'm just wondering. Why don't you support Goku more? Most fans would look for reasonable high level statements/ feats and use them. Why don't you? Anyway I'm getting kind of tired of all these nerd fights and battles. I'll probably leave the blog up there, but then give up on it on a personal level. It's just not worth the perpetual time I have to put into it. Bye the way, Cell could teleport to other world or to another planet like Namek. Goku did it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKdt2nlDqTM

I don't support Goku more because he doesn't have feats to show for it. All we have are statements and statements like Cell's can mean a multitude of things. Plus Cell doesn't even say he intends to destroy it, he just says he has the power to do so, which could just mean he can destroy the cumulative mass of our solar system which is impressive but that's only a little above Sun busting level. Goku is one of my favorite fictional characters but I could care less whether he can bust galaxies or solar systems. I'm into this series for the story and the characters. The intense fisticuffs just make all the more entertaining.

[ABEAR]

Well if someone does consider Broly canon he does count. Alternate universe or not.

I hope you know that destroying the solar system can mean a multitude of things =/. Cell wouldn't even destroy the Solar System because the heat released by the sun exploding would effectively incinerate Cell. In case you haven't noticed DBZ characters don't respond to heat well. Destroying the solar system ONLY requires you to destroy the sun which would take away the gravity holding the planets in place. Actually SSJ4 doesn't have an official multiplier, it's just generally accepted at 10x.

I got your email ThePrinceOfSaiyajins AKA TheMightyOzaru.
I'm just wondering. Why don't you support Goku more? Most fans would look for reasonable high level statements/ feats and use them. Why don't you? Anyway I'm getting kind of tired of all these nerd fights and battles. I'll probably leave the blog up there, but then give up on it on a personal level. It's just not worth the perpetual time I have to put into it. Bye the way, Cell could teleport to other world or to another planet like Namek. Goku did it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKdt2nlDqTM

I don't support Goku more because he doesn't have feats to show for it. All we have are statements and statements like Cell's can mean a multitude of things. Plus Cell doesn't even say he intends to destroy it, he just says he has the power to do so, which could just mean he can destroy the cumulative mass of our solar system which is impressive but that's only a little above Sun busting level. Goku is one of my favorite fictional characters but I could care less whether he can bust galaxies or solar systems. I'm into this series for the story and the characters. The intense fisticuffs just make all the more entertaining.

Why did you bite my head off? Why must I receive so much hate from: Superman fans, people who low ball Dragon Ball Z, and those "fans" who hate the Japanese original of Dragon Ball and call Goku's voice "gay."

[TheMightyOzaru]

Woah who hates on you for liking the Japanese version of the anime? Whoever they are, they need to be slapped. As for biting your head off, I just don't like it when these characters are overrated. You put too much stock in them and then you just end up being disappointed when you realize they aren't that strong. I keep higher ranked DBZ characters at large star busting range.

[ABEAR]

Woah who hates on you for liking the Japanese version of the anime? Whoever they are, they need to be slapped. As for biting your head off, I just don't like it when these characters are overrated. You put too much stock in them and then you just end up being disappointed when you realize they aren't that strong. I keep higher ranked DBZ characters at large star busting range.

Lots of people hate Goku's "female" Japanese voice it seems. By the way, about Cell.

1. Dead people have KI. SSJ 3 Goku had Ki when powering up in the Buu saga.

2. Cell can sense dead people if they have a high enough ki.

3. Cell teleported to earth after regenerating in other world.

4. Cell could fire a beam to destroy the solar system or sun or whatever and teleport to Goku's or King Kai's ki. Come to think of it, Buu was too dangerous since he could teleport anywhere. Or do I have that wrong? Whose teleportation method did Buu copy? The Kaioshin's or Goku's?

[dbzfan7]

Ares didn't even finish destroying Athens throughout the whole GOW 1 game. The Gods in this game are not powerful.

Because he was having fun torturing the populace and smashing Athena's things.

Helios is outright stated to have enough power to destroy everything.

Since when is helios stated to be able to destroy everything? If that were true the Titan war would have easily been won and the Blade of Oylmpus would not be forged. Zeus is the most powerful God, and yet he can't do that. None of the Gods are Omnipotent nor Immortal. They only have eternal life. If they were Omnipotent then Kratos would be a flea compared to them.

It's not about the feats really (though I think God Kratos could easily smash Goku by strength alone) it's about who and what he is - the God of War. All fighting, all anger, all rage, all nasty words are part of Kratos' domain.

Kratos says "stop." and all fighting stops. Everywhere, for any reason. Goku can't even get angry that he can't fight.

Seriously since Kratps has no feats of surviving a planet busting attack he can't win. He only has strength above Goku. His durability is no where near planet busting. Kratos is also much slower then Goku. One planet bust Kamehameha and Kratos dies. The largest destruction feat in GOW is the sword of Olympus wiping out the Titans which Kratos can not replicate. Kratos only has one category over Goku which isn't enough. Unless Kratos goes on a planet destruction spree in GOW 56, he ain't beating Goku. One again, he doesn't have any omnipotent powers as a God. He is like the dragon ball gods, they have special powers but aren't all powerful.

[Rocketman]

Since when is helios stated to be able to destroy everything?

Chains of Olympus.

One again, he doesn't have any omnipotent powers as a God. He is like the dragon ball gods, they have special powers but aren't all powerful.

He has absolute command of battle. War happens because of Kratos' will (stated, end of GoW1). Goku cannot fight if Kratos wills that he cannot.

[dbzfan7]

Chains of Olympus.

That was the Pillar of the world that could cause destruction on a global scale. Helios was abducted so Morpheus could put the Gods to sleep, not because he was powerful. The sun is gone and that doesn't destroy the world. The whole thing ends with Persephone trying to end the world by destroying the pillars of the world with Atlas. (what actually can end the world and not Helios)

He has absolute command of battle. War happens because of Kratos' will (stated, end of GoW1). Goku cannot fight if Kratos wills that he cannot.

Just watched the GOW ending which doesn't mention that at all. Only mentions that wars are fought under his watchful eye. If Kratos could end a war by saying so, the other Gods wouldn't be able to fight him and their would be no resistance. Secondly Kratos can't magically stop Goku from fighting him just because he wills it. He has no mind powers. The only Kratos will bullshit whether it exist or not only works because he is more powerful then everybody so of course he has control over war. The most powerful has the most control. Without any durability feat to survive one of Goku's attacks, Kratos can't do anything.

[Rocketman]

(what actually can end the world and not Helios)

"Helios holds within him the power of the Sun, a power so great, it can destroy the world."

Just watched the GOW ending which doesn't mention that at all. Only mentions that wars are fought under his watchful eye.

"They were driven forward by Kratos."

Secondly Kratos can't magically stop Goku from fighting him just because he wills it. He has no mind powers.

Yes he can. He is the God of War. Wars, battle, anger and rage all exist because he wills them to. That's what being a Greek god is. If you pretend that's not true, you're making up your own rules so Goku-sa can win.

And Kratos does have power over the minds of mortals. Did you forget what Ares did during their fight? Or that Hera drove Hercules mad. Or Dionysus made Lycurgus cut off his own legs.

[TonyTheTiger]

I think there needs to be a certain amount of neutrality on the battlefield. While it's acceptable for characters to bring certain universe-specific behavior along with them that happens to be tailored to their powers (The Flash using the Speed Force, Goku drawing Ki for a Spirit Bomb, etc.), when they come from worlds that operate on wildly different rules and their powers are inexorably tied to those rules the line has to be drawn somewhere.

If someone's powers are blatantly bound to their home turf those powers need to be checked at the door unless the battle is staged on that home turf and the character they're fighting is also bound by the same rules. Someone like Helios who literally raises and lowers the sun should technically only be able to do that in a universe that actually permits such activity. Same goes for Kratos's power over things like war and rage. Stick him in a universe where free will exists or up against someone who explicitly has free will and then what? When Poseidon was killed there were massive floods. Now teleport him to Dragon Ball's Earth and kill him there. Does Capsule Corp. end up underwater? Who gets to decide who's rules win out when there's a direct incompatibility?

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

If Goku was bloodlust I think he'd kill Kratos before he even had time to think. Kratos is a monster when it comes to pure physical strength, but do you think he has more striking power than Bootenks or someone? Also I just wanted to ask, but is Kaios planet denser than earth? Would it be harder to destroy physically compared to something like the moon? Or would it just be like destroying a mountain? I really don't know about this type of stuff, and I have noticed some people on here are really knowledgeable on this.

[TheMightyOzaru]

@Rocketman, so let me get this straight. You are abiding by character statements yet you completely dismiss the very idea of Cell being able to destroy the sun...? Good to know.

[dbzfan7]

"Helios holds within him the power of the Sun, a power so great, it can destroy the world."

You need to link me to where that is said. Besides its stated that Zeus is the most powerful God and yet he can't destroy the world. You also have to consider how (if true) that power could end the world as if he could use that at will, he wouldn't have died so easily to a titan.

"They were driven forward by Kratos."

Yeah due to the fact he can kill anyone of them if they don't listen. You ever hear of if you don't follow the will of the gods, you feel their wrath.

Yes he can. He is the God of War. Wars, battle, anger and rage all exist because he wills them to. That's what being a Greek god is. If you pretend that's not true, you're making up your own rules so Goku-sa can win.

And Kratos does have power over the minds of mortals. Did you forget what Ares did during their fight? Or that Hera drove Hercules mad. Or Dionysus made Lycurgus cut off his own legs.

Again its power over people, not mind control. Ares opens a portal and sends Kratos to a place of illusions. Kratos has not shown he can do that at all. Hera blinds Hercules with hate which isn't going to help a fight at all. Dionysus uses wine to make Lycurgus crazy and he cuts his foot of on his own accord. Ergo its not mind control, more like persuasion. Bring up actual feats. Show Kratos controlling someones mind. Why would Kratos have to destroy Rhodes or set foot in that place if he could control the minds of the populous. He wouldn't even need to come down if he had mind control. Kratos's job is to settle wars, but he had lost his spot due to the fear of Zeus, and his bias towards the spartans.

Bring up one time he controlled someones mind instead of thinking he can. Also explain why he would go down and attack cities when he could just control the minds of those who oppose him. All Kratos has as a god was Eternal Life, and pretty much the powers he had previously. Which explains why he attacks a populous instead of controlling peoples minds like you think he can. Even if he could somehow control minds he would never do that in a 1 on 1 fight as Kratos is a Spartan who has a code of honor, If Goku challenged him, he would fight man to man.

@Rocketman, so let me get this straight. You are abiding by character statements yet you completely dismiss the very idea of Cell being able to destroy the sun...? Good to know.

Interesting. Still don't understand how a debate can go on since God Kratos has 0 feats and Rocketman is only speculating mind control which A) has never been shown for Kratos and B) if he could do that he would never need to go down to Rhodes in the first place and C) Ares takes forever destroying Athens and with Gods in history taking more pleasure in letting humans kill each other, why does Ares not control the minds of the humans to fight among themselves? Also why didn't Ares just mind control Kratos to kill his family, instead he had him slaughter villages in blood lust and accidentally kill his family. He knew how to get Kratos's blood lusted which is what had him kill his family and not mind control.

[Rocketman]

You need to link me to where that is said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i7euLSVWEk
About 6:42, the cutscene with Eos.

Ares opens a portal and sends Kratos to a place of illusions. Kratos has not shown he can do that at all.

He gains Ares' throne and all his powers.

Also explain why he would go down and attack cities when he could just control the minds of those who oppose him.

Same reason Ares would take his time smashing up Athens instead of simply obliterating everyone like he did to the barbarian army. He takes pleasure in carnage and violence because he's a sadist.

Ares takes forever destroying Athens and with Gods in history taking more pleasure in letting humans kill each other, why does Ares not control the minds of the humans to fight among themselves? Also why didn't Ares just mind control Kratos to kill his family, instead he had him slaughter villages in blood lust and accidentally kill his family.

He did. Anger, rage, bloodlust, all these things are Ares controlling the minds of mortals.

I think there needs to be a certain amount of neutrality on the battlefield. While it's acceptable for characters to bring certain universe-specific behavior along with them that happens to be tailored to their powers (The Flash using the Speed Force, Goku drawing Ki for a Spirit Bomb, etc.), when they come from worlds that operate on wildly different rules and their powers are inexorably tied to those rules the line has to be drawn somewhere.

Well then that's misleading. I mean, I agree in principle, but it's completely inaccurate to go "Goku can beat up God Kratos*! Ha ha! Suck it!"




*as long as God Kratos can't actually use his God powers

[Hellspawn28]

Funny how this topic went from Goku vs. Superman to Kratos vs. Goku . I admit that I was a never big fan of God of War (I like Devil May Cry better IMO), but I think Kratos at his best could make it up to Piccolo Daimao from what I can remember.