The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Pantalones]

Depends on how strong you think the East Kaioshin is, but he should at least be able to use his paralysis technique to keep Vegeta from doing anything, since it worked (just barely) on SSj2 Gohan seven years later.

If you think he's legitimately stronger than Piccolo during the Buu saga, then he also has to be much stronger than the Vegeta who fought semi-perfect Cell, since Piccolo at the Cell Games seemed at least somewhat close to Vegeta and Trunks' level after their second year-day of training... and he's probably gotten even stronger than that during the seven years before Buu.

If he's weaker than Piccolo, there's still some room for him to be stronger than Vegeta was back then, but it depends on just how weak he is. I've seen some power level lists that put him around Trunks' level when he first appeared (probably about as low as he can be and still qualify for "able to beat Freeza with one blow"), for example. If he's at least somewhat close to Vegeta's level, though, he should have a good chance of winning thanks to his paralysis which works even on opponents much stronger than him (unlike Chiaotzu's version), at least if he thinks to use it before Vegeta blasts him.

[Hellspawn28]

Kakarotto base in the very beginning of DB GT, is stronger than a SSJ3. Imagine how powerful can be in SSJ4.

What makes you think GT Goku in his base form is around that level or even stronger? GT takes place 15 years after the Buu saga, I doubt he became stronger then a SSJ3 in his base form in 15 years of training.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

What makes you think GT Goku in his base form is around that level or even stronger? GT takes place 15 years after the Buu saga, I doubt he became stronger then a SSJ3 in his base form in 15 years of training.

Goku was haxxed to the death in GT.

• Goku fought equally with Oob (who should be stronger than Pure Boo) in base (thought Goku said that he fought Oob all-out, so he probably used Super Saiyan 3, but we just didn't see it because it wasn't the right time to introduce it in GT, since the series had just begun).
• Goku said that base Rild was stronger than Majin Boo, and then he fought with him evenly in base.
• Goku could easily beat SS Gohan & SS Goten in base.
• Goku could toy with Freeza & Cell in base.

Of course, none of this make any sense, so I just consider them plot-holes and ignore them as actual facts. I personally have GT Goku 2-4 times stronger than Boo arc Goku.

[RandomGuy96]

Depends on how strong you think the East Kaioshin is, but he should at least be able to use his paralysis technique to keep Vegeta from doing anything, since it worked (just barely) on SSj2 Gohan seven years later.

I think he's a lot stronger than this Vegeta, honestly. He's explicitly stated to be more powerful than Piccolo (who I think is stronger than this Vegeta and only moderately weaker after the second ROSAT trip), and his telekinesis wouldn't have worked on SS2 Gohan had the gap between them been as big as the gap between SS2 Gohan and this Vegeta.

If you think he's legitimately stronger than Piccolo during the Buu saga, then he also has to be much stronger than the Vegeta who fought semi-perfect Cell, since Piccolo at the Cell Games seemed at least somewhat close to Vegeta and Trunks' level after their second year-day of training... and he's probably gotten even stronger than that during the seven years before Buu.

I believe he was stronger, as the guidebooks outright state it.

his paralysis which works even on opponents much stronger than him (unlike Chiaotzu's version), at least if he thinks to use it before Vegeta blasts him.

Psychic powers don't work if the opponent is too strong. Chiaotzu's are no exception; he tried and failed to use them against Nappa, but they DID work on Krillin.

[MDSTSSJ]

Goku was haxxed to the death in GT.

Goku fought equally with Oob (who should be stronger than Pure Boo) in base (thought Goku said that he fought Oob all-out, so he probably used Super Saiyan 3, but we just didn't see it because it wasn't the right time to introduce it in GT, since the series had just begun).
[*]Goku said that base Rild was stronger than Majin Boo, and then he fought with him evenly in base.
[*]Goku could easily beat SS Gohan & SS Goten in base.
[*]Goku could toy with Freeza & Cell in base.[/list]

Correct my friend!

Of course, none of this make any sense, so I just consider them plot-holes and ignore them as actual facts. I personally have GT Goku 2-4 times stronger than Boo arc Goku.

Mmm, I respect your personal opinion but, ignoring the actual facts as you say, do you still think GT Kakarotto gain 2-4 times with the SSJ4 transformation? It seems little power to me if we consider the Super Exciting Guides: SSJ2 2 X times stronger than SSJ1. SSJ3 4 X times stronger than SSJ2. Or, you talking about base power?

Cheers

[DBZGTKOSDH]

do you still think GT Kakarotto gain 2-4 times with the SSJ4 transformation?

Nope, I mean only his base. Base GT Goku is 2-4 times stronger than base Boo arc Goku, that's what I mean. Super Saiyan 4 makes Goku at least 4000 times stronger than his base, IMO.

[TheMightyOzaru]

SSJ2 Vegeta(BoG post potential unlocked) vs SSJ3 Gotenks
-I personally think Vegeta stomps.

[ABED]

Goku trained during that time and is clearly stronger, but I think it's going overboard to say he's THAT much stronger than he used to be in those couple years. It's not like the movies never had characters fighting in their base form when they should be transformed. Case in point, Gohan fighting Broly in his base form.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

SSJ2 Vegeta(BoG post potential unlocked) vs SSJ3 Gotenks

Vegeta gets easily beaten. There is no way he can get over 8 times stronger in 2 or 6 years (depending on when the movie takes place). Not even in the 28th TB he would be that strong, if he is still only a Super Saiyan 2.

Goku trained during that time and is clearly stronger, but I think it's going overboard to say he's THAT much stronger than he used to be in those couple years. It's not like the movies never had characters fighting in their base form when they should be transformed. Case in point, Gohan fighting Broly in his base form.

Which is why I don't take them seriously.

[TheMightyOzaru]

SSJ2 Vegeta(BoG post potential unlocked) vs SSJ3 Gotenks

Vegeta gets easily beaten. There is no way he can get over 8 times stronger in 2 or 6 years (depending on when the movie takes place). Not even in the 28th TB he would be that strong, if he is still only a Super Saiyan 2.

I said post potential unlocked. BoG takes place 5 years after the Buu saga.

[ABED]

Goku trained during that time and is clearly stronger, but I think it's going overboard to say he's THAT much stronger than he used to be in those couple years. It's not like the movies never had characters fighting in their base form when they should be transformed. Case in point, Gohan fighting Broly in his base form.

Which is why I don't take them seriously.

But you are taking GT seriously?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I said post potential unlocked.

And I said Vegeta looses.

But you are taking GT seriously?

I take it as seriously as the anime in general. What I mean is that I don't take these events seriously to judge Goku's power.

[ABED]

I got that, but I'm wondering if you discount the films but think GT is a great way to judge his power. It's clear that the GT writers don't know how to write a compelling fight, and part of that is due to the lack of logic. There's just no way I buy Goku being strong enough to defeat Freeza and Cell in his base form, much less Buu. I also don't think Gohan would last very long in his base against Broly.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I got that, but I'm wondering if you discount the films but think GT is a great way to judge his power. It's clear that the GT writers don't know how to write a compelling fight, and part of that is due to the lack of logic. There's just no way I buy Goku being strong enough to defeat Freeza and Cell in his base form, much less Buu. I also don't think Gohan would last very long in his base against Broly.

I don't understand what you are asking... I'm not judging Goku's (or anyone's) power through the events on GT, because like you said, it's illogical. Base Goku shouldn't be able to take on Boo or SS Gohan,in base so easily IMO. Maybe Freeza, but not the rest.

[ABED]

Are you claiming that GT base Goku is stronger than DBZ SS3 Goku?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Are you claiming that GT base Goku is stronger than DBZ SS3 Goku?

I already said that I don't. GT implies it, by I ignore those implications. I have base GT Goku several times stronger than Boo arc base Goku, but not several hundreds of times stronger.

[Kamiccolo9]

I agree that it doesn't make any sense, but doesn't GT imply that Goku is at least 100x stronger than in the Buu Arc? Even if his line referred to Mr. Buu, (the weakest one) that's still a upper level SSJ2 character. If SSJ2 is 100X a Saiyan's base, Goku's quote to Rildo would still make him obsenely strong in base.

[MDSTSSJ]

Are you claiming that GT base Goku is stronger than DBZ SS3 Goku?

Yes he is. Although it does not seem logical, that is what shown in GT.

And that´s way I see SSJ4 Kakarotto more powerful than Birusu.

[RandomGuy96]

Yeah, there's no evidence to suggest that he only got 4 times stronger and everything suggests that he got hundreds of times stronger. He bests a Majin Buu-level fighter in base, pwns Super Saiyan Goten and Gohan in base, and effortlessly destroys Super Perfect Cell in base.

[Saiga]

I think it's much stronger than merely implying it. Being able to fight evenly who is stated to be above a certain character's power isn't an implication, it's about the strongest form of evidence you can get.