Goku: 90,000 to 3,000,000 Zenkai?!

[Kaboom]

Duo's got the right idea. From a narrative standpoint, Goku's final healing boost was so insanely large because it was meant to be. It was the one last big significant push for the whole concept.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I've read another theory out there that, if you are healed using new methods, the Zenkai will be bigger. For example, Goku's been healing through Senzu beans his entire life, so the Zenkai's he received while training on the spaceship weren't that noticeable. However, once he got on Namek and was healed by the healing pod (new method), he skyrocketed in power. Vegeta as well, his earlier Zenkai's were with the healing pod, something he used all his life before. Then, his larger Zenkai's were from new methods, the senzu bean, dende's healing powers.

Interesting idea.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Even if its in the SEG I can't take it as a fact. I can understand constantly being in SSJ would increase stamina as they get used to the form and how much power they need to exert to maintain it. But no matter how I look at it mastering a transformations power consumption does not equal larger gains. Unless someone can explain to me how such a thing is possible then I just refuse to except it. I just can't except that "SEG says it does." or "It gave them increased gains, just because."

It works fine for me. In fact, that's what I believed the first time I saw the series (not 12 years ago as a little kid). Goku & Gohan were so much ahead from Vegeta & Trunks, so I concluded that the reason was the fact that they were constantly staying in their Super Saiyan form, and the guidebooks seem to think so too. You can disagree, but the official statements hold more power than simple fans like you & me. Even if I didn't like it, the official sources claim this as a fact, and I agree because it makes sense. It explains why Goku & Gohan are so much stronger than Vegeta & Trunks after 2 days inside the RoSaT (I believe that Vegeta & Trunks reached the SSFP form as well in their 2nd day, but didn't get so strong because they didn't have any sparring partners), and it explains why the 8 years-old present Trunks is so much stronger than the Future Trunks against Mecha Freeza (yes, I believe that Goten & Trunks are SSFP, and stronger than #18).

[Duo]

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Even if its in the SEG I can't take it as a fact. I can understand constantly being in SSJ would increase stamina as they get used to the form and how much power they need to exert to maintain it. But no matter how I look at it mastering a transformations power consumption does not equal larger gains. Unless someone can explain to me how such a thing is possible then I just refuse to except it. I just can't except that "SEG says it does." or "It gave them increased gains, just because."

Even though this subject doesn't really bother me much (seriously, we have Goku power up like threefold from drinking poison water), I used to think of it like this, and I'm sure others do as well: The act of transformation uses up a lot of Ki for a Saiyan, therefore there is a massive pool of it that is unlocked by the fact they've recovered their stamina while maintaining the transformation - Ki that is normally expended by transforming is now part of their combat Ki. Now you just need to get on board with the idea that it uses up an absolutely insane amount of power to turn Super Saiyan (before attaining total mastery and all that jazz).

[Bussani]

Even though this subject doesn't really bother me much (seriously, we have Goku power up like threefold from drinking poison water), I used to think of it like this, and I'm sure others do as well: The act of transformation uses up a lot of Ki for a Saiyan, therefore there is a massive pool of it that is unlocked by the fact they've recovered their stamina while maintaining the transformation - Ki that is normally expended by transforming is now part of their combat Ki. Now you just need to get on board with the idea that it uses up an absolutely insane amount of power to turn Super Saiyan (before attaining total mastery and all that jazz).

I also figured that staying Super Saiyan used up energy previously, but rather than thinking that freed-up energy got diverted to combat power, I figured it went to stamina. I'm not saying what I figured was right, though. Maybe it could even be a mix of both.

[Duo]

I also figured that staying Super Saiyan used up energy previously, but rather than thinking that freed-up energy got diverted to combat power, I figured it went to stamina. I'm not saying what I figured was right, though. Maybe it could even be a mix of both.

I don't worry about it too much at this point. Being Super Saiyan all the time made Goku and Gohan powerful as hell because they needed to be. Good enough for me. Weren't we talking about Goku's equally broken last near-death powerup?

[shonenhikada]

The 90,000 zenkai boost comes from multiple near deaths goku had while Ginyu was in his body.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

3 things helped Goku achieve his 33x zenkai on Namek

1. He was already abusing the zenkai on his way to Namek, pushing his limits in the Gravitron room on Dr. Brief's spaceship. He must have used at least 10 senzu beans here, getting worn out, using one, and then pushing himself to higher gravity every time. Not even Vegeta trained that way.

2. Kaioken. Many might think this is a weird or irrelevant theory. But just think how Goku is always able to use several times his own base power during his fights. Even 2x power for someone like Yamcha or Krillin would probably floor them in seconds. Goku, on his way to Namek, staged himself to the point of using 10x or even 20x his own power level with Kaioken. Someone who can push them self this far in training, has got lots of "potential" - and by potential, I'll explain this further on point # 3.

3. Goku's built potential on becoming a super saiyan. Many may probably just call this "being the chosen one" or some other theory like that, but I want to think deeper than that. Zenkai really just means full recovery and limit pusher on a users power, but I always thought of it in a way, where 1 given Zenkai allows you the chance at becoming a super saiyan. Both Vegeta and Goku had one of these. BUT, note the potential ability I mentioned above for Goku, him over abusing the zenkai in intense gravity and being able to withstand 20x his base power, staged himself for a monstrously huge zenkai. That "chance" for super saiyan, thus, was greater for Goku than it was for Vegeta, based on how they were both staged, prior to the occurrence.

90,000 - 3,000,000 surely is ridiculous at first, but it actually makes sense.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

But afterward, right before Freeza starts fighting with no hands, they /both/ comment about how they've been holding back; Gokuu was extremely confident, so it can't be right, unless you want to suggest he was actually using Kaiou-ken x8-9 before that, but that in itself would contradict the idea that he King Kaiou /literally/ meant he was using tenfold "the entire time."

And also, Goku was telling Frieza he was holding back a lot of power. Kaioken x20 was supposed to be a last resort, it drained his power. So it wouldn't make sense if he already used Kaioken x10 if he stated he was "hiding" power. The 300,000 believers overlooked this one little fact.

[Draken]

3 things helped Goku achieve his 33x zenkai on Namek

1. He was already abusing the zenkai on his way to Namek, pushing his limits in the Gravitron room on Dr. Brief's spaceship. He must have used at least 10 senzu beans here, getting worn out, using one, and then pushing himself to higher gravity every time. Not even Vegeta trained that way.

2. Kaioken. Many might think this is a weird or irrelevant theory. But just think how Goku is always able to use several times his own base power during his fights. Even 2x power for someone like Yamcha or Krillin would probably floor them in seconds. Goku, on his way to Namek, staged himself to the point of using 10x or even 20x his own power level with Kaioken. Someone who can push them self this far in training, has got lots of "potential" - and by potential, I'll explain this further on point # 3.

3. Goku's built potential on becoming a super saiyan. Many may probably just call this "being the chosen one" or some other theory like that, but I want to think deeper than that. Zenkai really just means full recovery and limit pusher on a users power, but I always thought of it in a way, where 1 given Zenkai allows you the chance at becoming a super saiyan. Both Vegeta and Goku had one of these. BUT, note the potential ability I mentioned above for Goku, him over abusing the zenkai in intense gravity and being able to withstand 20x his base power, staged himself for a monstrously huge zenkai. That "chance" for super saiyan, thus, was greater for Goku than it was for Vegeta, based on how they were both staged, prior to the occurrence.

90,000 - 3,000,000 surely is ridiculous at first, but it actually makes sense.

I'm pretty sure he used like, 3 senzu's max lol.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

3 things helped Goku achieve his 33x zenkai on Namek

1. He was already abusing the zenkai on his way to Namek, pushing his limits in the Gravitron room on Dr. Brief's spaceship. He must have used at least 10 senzu beans here, getting worn out, using one, and then pushing himself to higher gravity every time. Not even Vegeta trained that way.

2. Kaioken. Many might think this is a weird or irrelevant theory. But just think how Goku is always able to use several times his own base power during his fights. Even 2x power for someone like Yamcha or Krillin would probably floor them in seconds. Goku, on his way to Namek, staged himself to the point of using 10x or even 20x his own power level with Kaioken. Someone who can push them self this far in training, has got lots of "potential" - and by potential, I'll explain this further on point # 3.

3. Goku's built potential on becoming a super saiyan. Many may probably just call this "being the chosen one" or some other theory like that, but I want to think deeper than that. Zenkai really just means full recovery and limit pusher on a users power, but I always thought of it in a way, where 1 given Zenkai allows you the chance at becoming a super saiyan. Both Vegeta and Goku had one of these. BUT, note the potential ability I mentioned above for Goku, him over abusing the zenkai in intense gravity and being able to withstand 20x his base power, staged himself for a monstrously huge zenkai. That "chance" for super saiyan, thus, was greater for Goku than it was for Vegeta, based on how they were both staged, prior to the occurrence.

90,000 - 3,000,000 surely is ridiculous at first, but it actually makes sense.

I'm pretty sure he used like, 3 senzu's max lol.

They showed only a few scenes of his training. He was doing this for 6 days. We don't know how many he ate.

[Duo]

I'm pretty sure the manga says he brought himself near death repeatedly with no numerical listing as to how many Senzu were consumed. Was there ever a specific count I'm not aware of?

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

I'm pretty sure the manga says he brought himself near death repeatedly with no numerical listing as to how many Senzu were consumed. Was there ever a specific count I'm not aware of?

I don't think that was ever mentioned. Let's just say he ate a lot

[Toadster]

My belief is that the more zenkais a Saiyan recently received, the greater the power boost becomes for the next one. Goku gave himself zenkais on his way to Namek and Vegeta went through a few zenkais himself. Then both Vegeta and Goku received Zenkais that boosted their power dramatically.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

It can correlate with their healing methods too, though. I honestly don't think that's the case, but there's nothing to really counter-argue, so I guess you could be right.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

It can correlate with their healing methods too, though. I honestly don't think that's the case, but there's nothing to really counter-argue, so I guess you could be right except it makes me wonder why Vegeta didn't get a huge zenkai after being beaten by 18 and Cell.

[Zephyr]

I'm pretty sure the manga says he brought himself near death repeatedly with no numerical listing as to how many Senzu were consumed. Was there ever a specific count I'm not aware of?

I don't think that was ever mentioned. Let's just say he ate a lot

In the Viz version of the manga, it says he was given 7 beans by Karin in total. He used the final 3 on Gohan, Krillin, and Vegeta when he got to Namek. Meaning, he received a total of 4 zenkais in space.

[Duo]

I'm pretty sure the manga says he brought himself near death repeatedly with no numerical listing as to how many Senzu were consumed. Was there ever a specific count I'm not aware of?

I don't think that was ever mentioned. Let's just say he ate a lot

In the Viz version of the manga, it says he was given 7 beans by Karin in total. He used the final 3 on Gohan, Krillin, and Vegeta when he got to Namek. Meaning, he received a total of 4 zenkais in space.

That sounds familiar, actually. Thanks for reminding me.

[Bussani]

it makes me wonder why Vegeta didn't get a huge zenkai after being beaten by 18 and Cell.

The guides say that those power ups became small or non-existent at that point in the story, replaced with Super Saiyan transformations. Which is probably for the best, or every problem would be solved by beating themselves up and making Dende heal them.

[Saiga]

it makes me wonder why Vegeta didn't get a huge zenkai after being beaten by 18 and Cell.

The guides say that those power ups became small or non-existent at that point in the story, replaced with Super Saiyan transformations. Which is probably for the best, or every problem would be solved by beating themselves up and making Dende heal them.

I don't know, that could have made for a morbidly hilarious plot. Sounds like a story I came up with for Bardock (when playing one of the games) where he survived by landing on a planet of healers (Dende-style) and used them like health potions by taking them into battle and just Zenkai'ing it up multiple times as he was beaten up and they picked off.