Does Akira Toriyama's forgetfulness bother anyone but me?

[VegettoEX]

But we know it wasn't even considered "Super Saiyan 2" until Goku started blurting out names for that stuff an entire story arc later, and at that point in the story, it was just "Gohan got angry and changed a bit".

Toriyama didn't name the transformation at the time that it happened. Give the guy a pass.

[Vice]

They always referred to it as a different form of Super Saiyan even if they didn't name drop "Super Saiyan 2" long before that.

I'm not lynching the guy, I'm just saying.

[Ookalf]

What is this flub? I've never heard of it.

It was mentioned in one of those interviews leading up to Battle of Gods. Apparently, Toriyama forgot what exactly Super Saiyan 2 and 3 were and tried to draw 2 as the one with really long hair.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I think AT's forgetfulness restricts him from coming up with a story consistent with his own DB manga *cough* JSAT & BOG *cough*. I genuinely dislike that.

What problems do JSAT & BoG have?

[The Monkey King]

I don't really hold it against Toriyama for forgetting about SSJ2, it wasn't that drastic it was kinda like a turbo SSJ1 while SSJ3 was a really drastic transformation.

[Cursed Lemon]

I don't really hold it against Toriyama for forgetting about SSJ2, it wasn't that drastic it was kinda like a turbo SSJ1 while SSJ3 was a really drastic transformation.

Still, though, Gohan's transformation was quite possibly the most epic moment of the entire series - to forget that might demonstrate quite a bit of apathy.

[Marco Polo]

It's perfectly fine to forget stuff, but in that case you can just re-read parts of the manga.

In BoG's case it seems Toriyama didn't re-read the manga until after he did his contributions for the movie.

[Thanos]

Does it bother me that someone genuinely doesn't like or isn't as interested in something as much as I am? No, that's his business. Even if he did create it. Just because he created it doesn't mean he has to feel obligated to remember everything and care about it...

As for him forgetting 18's hair colour... so what? I can distinctly remember plenty of comics/manga where things are coloured differently at different times. It isn't just Toriyama who hasn't come to clear decisions about the colour of specific things. That, also it's 20 years later and he didn't even really like Dragon Ball much in the first place.

Even if something had come along by Toriyama with 18 involved and her hair was purple, I can't imagine myself, fan that I am, all that bothered. I really love the series, but I'm not nitpicky like that and I don't know what took place on what episode and that. I guess I'm a big fan, but not a fanatic.

[Storm101]

If he thought SSJ3 was SSJ2, I wonder what he thought SSJ3 was. Or maybe he didn't remember that anything beyond that existed period... I'd imagine he would remember Super Saiyan 4, though.

Purple haired #18 doesn't even really matter, you could just say she dyed her hair. Might have been cool if they just went with it.

[Bussani]

They always referred to it as a different form of Super Saiyan even if they didn't name drop "Super Saiyan 2" long before that.

Yes, but they referred to the grades in similar ways as well. It's probably not that Toriyama forgot about Gohan's epic moment at the Cell Game itself--he may have just forgotten that he later called this Super Saiyan 2. As I said, he only even calls it that in the manga once, whereas they called it things like "the Super Saiyan beyond the Super Saiyan" at least a couple of times.

[FindKenshi]

Every little thing? Perhaps not, but Gohan going Super Saiyan 2 was a momentous occasion in the series. Certainly I'd remember that.

But that's just the problem... maybe it's a momentous occasion to us.. but to Toriyama, what if it wasn't at all. What if Gohan going SSj2 was kind of a "meh" moment for him... I mean wouldn't you find that a bit disappointing?
I find a lot of the attitudes in this topic to actually irk me somewhat... I can understand saying something along the lines of "C'mon FindKenshi cut him slack" or whatever.. but what I can't understand is the whole idea that somehow "It's ridiculous to expect him to remember this stuff... I think it's awesome that he forgot everything and doesn't care about the story! That makes me enjoy Dragonball more and it should do for you, too!"

I mean.. *shrug* I just don't get it. How are you not at least a little bothered by the fact that he could forget stuff like SSj3?

[Bussani]

I mean wouldn't you find that a bit disappointing?

Honestly, no.

How are you not at least a little bothered by the fact that he could forget stuff like SSj3?

Well, he didn't forget Super Saiyan 3. It seems more like he forgot that he'd labelled one of the things before it "Super Saiyan 2", leading him to think that, logically, the long-haired form must be Super Saiyan 2. I don't think it's a terribly hard mistake to make considering that the manga only calls the sparky-form Super Saiyan 2 once, as well as the fact that even Gotenks completely skips over it and goes straight to the long-haired form.

[Ryuman]

I think the fact that he went out of his way to change character designs and the entire story for Battle of Gods shows that he cares a great deal. I don't think he's completely apathetic, but I'm sure he wouldn't dwell on what he did all that much either.

[FindKenshi]

I think the fact that he went out of his way to change character designs and the entire story for Battle of Gods shows that he cares a great deal. I don't think he's completely apathetic, but I'm sure he wouldn't dwell on what he did all that much either.

Far as I know from what I read is he only stepped in to change stuff because he thought it was too dark.. he just wanted to make it a bit goofier.

[Ryuman]

I think the fact that he went out of his way to change character designs and the entire story for Battle of Gods shows that he cares a great deal. I don't think he's completely apathetic, but I'm sure he wouldn't dwell on what he did all that much either.

Far as I know from what I read is he only stepped in to change stuff because he thought it was too dark.. he just wanted to make it a bit goofier.

Yeah, but doesn't it show that he cares about his series? I think so, anyway.

[Marco Polo]

Yeah, but doesn't it show that he cares about his series? I think so, anyway.

I don't think he cares about "his series". I think he just wanted the movie to be fun and entertaining.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I don't really hold it against Toriyama for forgetting about SSJ2, it wasn't that drastic it was kinda like a turbo SSJ1 while SSJ3 was a really drastic transformation.

Still, though, Gohan's transformation was quite possibly the most epic moment of the entire series - to forget that might demonstrate quite a bit of apathy.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Still, though, Gohan's transformation was quite possibly the most epic moment of the entire series - to forget that might demonstrate quite a bit of apathy.

Don't forget that it's the most epic scene ever in the anime. In the manga, it wasn't that special.

[FindKenshi]

Still, though, Gohan's transformation was quite possibly the most epic moment of the entire series - to forget that might demonstrate quite a bit of apathy.

Don't forget that it's the most epic scene ever in the anime. In the manga, it wasn't that special.

It was plenty special in the manga... maybe even more so, because of Toriyama's awesome artwork of the scene...

[Saiga]

Y'know, SS2 kid Gohan's hair does appear to grow a bit. Maybe that added to Toriyama's confusion?