Goku after drinking the Super God Water = Oozaru Goku?

[matt0044]

*ahem* Does it not occur to anyone that it's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbsWQqnWS_s

[Kamiccolo9]

*ahem* Does it not occur to anyone that it's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbsWQqnWS_s

That's the impression I got. I do like Herms' idea about the full power of the Oozaru coming out when Goku punched through Piccolo though.

[FindKenshi]

And I don't buy it the retroactive stuff either

Too bad.. it's not something that's up for debate. The website lists both when that issue of V-Jump came out that lists those numbers, and when the chapter came out when that part of the story was running. Those numbers were made up way later after the fact, and slapped on there, with no care for making it consistent or matching up. In fact battle power debates often try to fit the V-Jump and Daizenshuu numbers for early Dragonball characters into the story have a ton of trouble making it all match up with Goku and Piccolo's readings when Raditz first arrived.

Short answer is, no thought was put into it. The numbers are just made up on the spot, same as having Mr. Popo over one thousand... completely contradicts Popo saying that Kami is many times stronger than himself... those numbers are garbage.

[Bussani]

While that's all true, it shouldn't stop people from having fun trying to make them work, if that's what they want to do.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Goku's power level would be over 1,000 so no.

[FindKenshi]

Goku's power level would be over 1,000 so no.

Goku's power level was indeed over 1,000 until Raditz landed, then it magically scaled back down to 400ish.

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, I'm not "overly bitter," and I still think some really good points are being raised, and it really just goes to show how retroactive changes to a work can really influence your opinion of what came before. I try to pride myself on seeing elements of fiction in context and not applying retroactive changes to it as I'm reading it (a la, Goku's not an alien in the story until right around the time Raditz lands because it hadn't been invented until that point... after that, it retroactively applies to everything that came before, but not until that point, if that makes any sense), but I still came into this thread going, "Wow, that's an interesting thought, but there's no way that's the case because of the battle power inconsistencies people are mentioning." It never even occurred to me that all of those roadblocks I was thinking of were all things that didn't exist at the time of this plot point. Battle powers in general didn't exist, much less that specific reading for Goku, and the idea that Oozaru was a 10x multiplier hadn't been created yet either. So, yes, it's very possible that, at that time, Toriyama intended that power-up to be a manifestation/mastery/what have you, of the Oozaru form. We'll probably never know for sure, but it's a hell of a lot more interesting that way and works much better on a narrative level. Hell, it's things like that that make it unsurprising so many Japanese fans were afraid the series would end after Piccolo.

[Saiga]

And I don't buy it the retroactive stuff either

Too bad.. it's not something that's up for debate. The website lists both when that issue of V-Jump came out that lists those numbers, and when the chapter came out when that part of the story was running. Those numbers were made up way later after the fact, and slapped on there, with no care for making it consistent or matching up. In fact battle power debates often try to fit the V-Jump and Daizenshuu numbers for early Dragonball characters into the story have a ton of trouble making it all match up with Goku and Piccolo's readings when Raditz first arrived.

Short answer is, no thought was put into it. The numbers are just made up on the spot, same as having Mr. Popo over one thousand... completely contradicts Popo saying that Kami is many times stronger than himself... those numbers are garbage.

Yes, it is up for debate. I know the numbers came later, but that doesn't mean they don't fit and that Goku was over 10x stronger until he wasn't like you keep saying. That's you talking out of your ass.

And no, they're not garbage. Those numbers are from the Saiyan arc, after Popo has been training with the humans... simple stuff. You're being far too cynical about everything to say Toriyama made the numbers up on the spot without any thought when we don't know how he decided on those numbers.

And the 10x Oozaru multiplier came after those numbers so you're not even being consistent with your own argument.

[Draken]

And I don't buy it the retroactive stuff either

Too bad.. it's not something that's up for debate. The website lists both when that issue of V-Jump came out that lists those numbers, and when the chapter came out when that part of the story was running. Those numbers were made up way later after the fact, and slapped on there, with no care for making it consistent or matching up. In fact battle power debates often try to fit the V-Jump and Daizenshuu numbers for early Dragonball characters into the story have a ton of trouble making it all match up with Goku and Piccolo's readings when Raditz first arrived.

Short answer is, no thought was put into it. The numbers are just made up on the spot, same as having Mr. Popo over one thousand... completely contradicts Popo saying that Kami is many times stronger than himself... those numbers are garbage.

Yes, it is up for debate. I know the numbers came later, but that doesn't mean they don't fit and that Goku was over 10x stronger until he wasn't like you keep saying. That's you talking out of your ass.

And no, they're not garbage. Those numbers are from the Saiyan arc, after Popo has been training with the humans... simple stuff. You're being far too cynical about everything to say Toriyama made the numbers up on the spot without any thought when we don't know how he decided on those numbers.

And the 10x Oozaru multiplier came after those numbers so you're not even being consistent with your own argument.

Popo trained? I could have sworn he just stood there and watched/helped.

[FindKenshi]

Can you really call me cynical over this? Toriyama literally didn't care about the story..he forgot everything. If you're really trying to rationalize Popo's number by claiming he got that strong by training with the humans.. then you have the same fever that I once had. You want Dragonball to be something it isn't.. you want to pretend the one who wrote it had all these ideas of who's stronger than who and well thought out systems and you want the battle powers to all add up and make sense and be viable etc, but it just isn't like that. You're putting more thought into things than the author did.

I guess I'm just kinda depressed lately that he forgot about everything.. and Battle of Gods that had Toriyama closely involved has created more retcons surprisingly because he was involved.. I dunno, maybe it's finally time to shut down the In-Universe board at Kanzenshuu. Maybe there's no point to talk about In-Universe discussion anymore.

There's also this...

You're being far too cynical about everything to say Toriyama made the numbers up on the spot without any thought when we don't know how he decided on those numbers.

We don't even know for sure that he came up with the numbers. In fact, it is extremely unlikely.

[Bussani]

Can you really call me cynical over this? Toriyama literally didn't care about the story..he forgot everything. If you're really trying to rationalize Popo's number by claiming he got that strong by training with the humans.. then you have the same fever that I once had. You want Dragonball to be something it isn't.. you want to pretend the one who wrote it had all these ideas of who's stronger than who and well thought out systems and you want the battle powers to all add up and make sense and be viable etc, but it just isn't like that. You're putting more thought into things than the author did.

The thing is, most people knew that from the beginning. It didn't stop them then and it's not going to stop them now.

[FindKenshi]

Can you really call me cynical over this? Toriyama literally didn't care about the story..he forgot everything. If you're really trying to rationalize Popo's number by claiming he got that strong by training with the humans.. then you have the same fever that I once had. You want Dragonball to be something it isn't.. you want to pretend the one who wrote it had all these ideas of who's stronger than who and well thought out systems and you want the battle powers to all add up and make sense and be viable etc, but it just isn't like that. You're putting more thought into things than the author did.

The thing is, most people knew that from the beginning. It didn't stop them then and it's not going to stop them now.

No, most of us never knew, or we were in total denial. Plus more recent interviews before the Battle of Gods stuff started made it seem like Tori actually did care, and did remember little details.. but we were mistaken.

[Bussani]

No, most of us never knew, or we were in total denial.

Then I guess all those times others and I have ended our posts with things like, "But as usual, we're putting more thought into this than the author would have," we were just pretending.

[Saiga]

Yeah, you are way too bitter about things. Ridiculously so. Saying Toriyama never cared about anything and that he forget everything is a pretty extreme overreaction.

[Bando]

Maybe, but one could also say he didn't come up with a 10x boost for Oozaru back. Afterall Roshi's KHH was implied to be able to kill Oozaru Goku, and the KHH was less than a 2.2x multiplier. And that's assuming Toriyama had a KHH multiplier back then...

I just try not to think of the PLs. I doubt Toriyama was.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Afterall Roshi's KHH was implied to be able to kill Oozaru Goku

Not really, Kuririn & co. thought he killed Goku because they couldn't see him anywhere. Besides, they didn't know how to sense ki at that point to compare Kame-sennin's Kamehameha & Oozaru Goku.