Your opinions on Kai

[Duo]

It's interesting to me that, if there is a lot of English speaking fan who don't like it, why has it done well enough to justify continuing the show internationally? Must be a lot of us over here are actually pretty fond of the product. I'll always be grateful that it made introducing my woman to the show easy. It gave me a chance to really analyze the animation too, since I'm used to doing some reading with my Dragon Ball. Not that there's even remotely a damn thing wrong with that.

[DemonRin]

I honestly wonder why some fans have like, nothing but bile and contempt for Kai...

Because it's either too similar to DBZ (VAs now sounding "tired", reuse of old footage), thus they find it redundant/unnecessary; or it's "too different" from their precious, "perfect" vision of DBZ is (censored violence, different voice actors, different script and music in the case of the English dub.) Different = bad. Too similar = bad. They refuse to see that Kai rectified many flaws from the original anime. On the flip side, it also retains many of the original's flaws. I don't want to incite anything, but I have noticed that at least on the internet, it's the English dub fans that seem to have the most vitriol towards Kai (even Kai is the most accurate English dub released.) For the most part, fans of the Japanese version are at most indifferent towards Kai.

No, a few of the comments I've seen have come from fans of the Japanese version.

everything you stated there are all good reasons I think people who feel that way should just be indifferent towards it. It's the ones that react like its existence Offends them that really baffle me. I mean, they didn't pull a George Lucas on us here or anything, the unaltered versions are fully available on both sides of the pond and have never been out of print... If you don't like it, ignore it lol.

[CaBrPi]

It's interesting to me that, if there is a lot of English speaking fan who don't like it, why has it done well enough to justify continuing the show internationally? Must be a lot of us over here are actually pretty fond of the product. I'll always be grateful that it made introducing my woman to the show easy. It gave me a chance to really analyze the animation too, since I'm used to doing some reading with my Dragon Ball. Not that there's even remotely a damn thing wrong with that.

Because the "fans" are, always have been, and always will be, a minority. A vocal minority, but a minority nonetheless.

Kai did exceptionally well on Nicktoons and on Vortexx; if I remember correctly, they both pulled (and in Vortexx's case, continue to pull) ratings higher than most, if not all, of the other shows present on both networks.

[Duo]

It's interesting to me that, if there is a lot of English speaking fan who don't like it, why has it done well enough to justify continuing the show internationally? Must be a lot of us over here are actually pretty fond of the product. I'll always be grateful that it made introducing my woman to the show easy. It gave me a chance to really analyze the animation too, since I'm used to doing some reading with my Dragon Ball. Not that there's even remotely a damn thing wrong with that.

Because the "fans" are, always have been, and always will be, a minority. A vocal minority, but a minority nonetheless.

Kai did exceptionally well on Nicktoons and on Vortexx; if I remember correctly, they both pulled (and in Vortexx's case, continue to pull) ratings higher than most, if not all, of the other shows present on both networks.

That's so awesome. I'm really interested to see how that could effect the community years down the road. Do you recall which other countries it has been doing well in?

[TheBlackPaladin]

It's interesting to me that, if there is a lot of English speaking fan who don't like it, why has it done well enough to justify continuing the show internationally? Must be a lot of us over here are actually pretty fond of the product. I'll always be grateful that it made introducing my woman to the show easy. It gave me a chance to really analyze the animation too, since I'm used to doing some reading with my Dragon Ball. Not that there's even remotely a damn thing wrong with that.

Because the "fans" are, always have been, and always will be, a minority. A vocal minority, but a minority nonetheless.

Kai did exceptionally well on Nicktoons and on Vortexx; if I remember correctly, they both pulled (and in Vortexx's case, continue to pull) ratings higher than most, if not all, of the other shows present on both networks.

That's so awesome. I'm really interested to see how that could effect the community years down the road. Do you recall which other countries it has been doing well in?

Hard to say, unless someone has access to the ratings. All we have to go off of are impressions based on the online "fan response," and as we just discussed, that's not always the best indicator. However, here are three quick, general fan responses...

-In Latin America, Kai is HUGELY controversial. Almost the entire original cast from the Latin Spanish dub of DBZ was recast due to budget issues. They got a new Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta, Kaiou, Muten Roshi, Freeza, Trunks...pretty much everyone. To make matters worse, the dubbing company said that they had been given the Nicktoons-edited English dub for dubbing purposes, in effect inheriting their video edits (whereas the Latin Spanish dub of DBZ was previously uncensored), and basing their scripts on the (toned down) English dub script found in the Nicktoons-edited version as well. The dub director, Irwin Daayan, attempted to ease the blow a bit by translating all English names and pronunciations back to the ones used in the DBZ dub where possible, ("Spirit Bomb" back to "Genki Dama," "Shenron" back to "Shen Long," "Saiyan," back to "Saiyajin," etc)...but that only did so much to ease the blow. Fans actually raided FUNimation's Facebook page in mass numbers and demanded to get the original cast back, and it caused enough stir that the Kanzenshuu Podcast devoted an entire episode to the raid. That said, the acting in and of itself doesn't appear to be that bad, and Toei apparently said it's doing well there. Go figure.

-The Brazilian Portuguese dub faced pretty much the exact same controversy. Massive recasts, budget problems, using the Nicktoons-edited English dub, etc. However, it's a step above the Latin American dub for two reasons. Firstly, for all the recasts, at least the original actor for Goku did return. He wasn't going to because of the lowered budget, but ultimately he decided to anyway for the sake of the fans. Secondly, it appears that while they got the video masters of the Nicktoons-edited English dub, they nevertheless appear to be basing their dub scripts on the original Japanese script. I'm not sure how they could do that since they theoretically don't have access to the Japanese audio, but hey, they did it! The only other notable problem is that the audio mixing was absolutely horrendous in certain places. Like, it would switch to the English dub audio for a few seconds before going back to the Portuguese dub. I recall one instance I heard in which the episode inexplicably switched to the English dub audio for ten freakin' minutes. In spite of this, the outrage doesn't appear to be quite as bad as outrage that the Latin Spanish dub got.

-The French dub has been received very well! Little to no recasts, the uncut Japanese video masters, very faithfully-translated script, and significantly better acting than the DBZ dub. The French dub of Kai is not unlike the FUNimation dub of Kai in that, while not perfect, it's a HUGE step in the right direction and corrected a lot of the mistakes and errors found in the DBZ dub. The French dub was the second dub of DBZ to ever be produced, and it had....A LOT of stuff wrong with it. Stuff that, I'm happy to say, was corrected for the French Kai dub. Fan reaction seems to have been overwhelmingly appreciative.

[kei17]

The only other notable problem is that the audio mixing was absolutely horrendous in certain places. Like, it would switch to the English dub audio for a few seconds before going back to the Portuguese dub. I recall one instance I heard in which the episode inexplicably switched to the English dub audio for ten freakin' minutes.

Here are some real instances:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeJP0OBEu_w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugytu15IGvY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1ubd3ePUUY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip5xibNF7r4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMaZstlMZjs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiXaAsN-o54
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hby80HsJe8

[Cure Dragon 255]

The Ratings on Vortexx and Nicktoons are quite high.

Highest on Vortexx:1.247 million viewers
Highest on Nicktoons: 750 Thousand Viewers

AND DBZKai is THE Highest rated show EVER on Nicktoons AND Vortexx.

I cant wait for the kids who watch DBZKai on Vortexx to grow up!

[KingofWisdom]

I too would not be interested in Kai if not for the improved English dub. All though, I do really like the Kai pacing. The music scandal was unfortunate, even though there were maybe a few tracks that I liked from the Yamamoto score. As for the dub itself, I appreciate the final product, but I still feel like it's a happy accident (Linda Young being replaced at the last minute, Nadolny supposedly being replaced because Sabat didn't want to work with her, etc.). I can't help but feel like I wanted more out of it, though.

[Nikkolas]

The reason a lot of people bitched about Kai in my experience is because it was viewed as a very lazy cash in. People thought they were gonna do the whole anime over with modern animation and the like.

I'm making my way steadily through it for the first time and the improved pacing is indeed a bit of a relief. I think the "improved voice-acting" is overstated a bit as Sean, Chris and Sunny and the other mainstays were about as good as they were ever gonna get by the end of the Buu Saga. If you factor in the Remastered Saiyan Saga and video games, they pretty much peaked. The only real difference is that Sabat uses his Zoro voice for Piccolo instead of always sounding INTENSELY GROWLY.

The script however is a nice change.

Soundtrack is a bit meh. Not great but not bad. I won't lie - I miss Faulconer. I'm probably always going to associate certain scenes with his score. It'll be so weird to see Kai SSJ3 with no SSJ3 theme. That theme song made the scene for me.

I definitely don't hate what I've seen at any rate and I still got the best parts to go.

[Metalwario64]

I think the "improved voice-acting" is overstated a bit as Sean, Chris and Sunny and the other mainstays were about as good as they were ever gonna get by the end of the Buu Saga. If you factor in the Remastered Saiyan Saga and video games, they pretty much peaked.

They're all way better than in the Boo-arc of Z. They're also better still than the Ultimate Uncut dub, where Sabat still sounded very flat, stiff and raspy, but in Kai for Vegeta and Piccolo he's a lot smoother and more dynamic in his acting.

Schemmel's child-like Goku sounds more natural, whereas before it sounded a little bit forced, and his battle cries sound more realistic, rather than a guy yelling things in a booth, as some people put it a while back. Actually, the latter point goes for everyone, and I definitely noticed it right away, and loved it.

Though, Cynthia Cranz manages to sound worse than ever, and does lots of shrieking and squealing as Chi-Chi, and it's incredibly irritating.

[Nikkolas]

How did Sabat sound "flat"? Every scene that demanded Vegeta actually show he's an emotional living being, he did well. (attacking Cell. his sacrifice against Buu, the infamous "a Saiyan always keeps his pride" bit...) I'm not that far yet but even if he has improved since then, and his attack against Cell is better voiced, I never once thought he sounded flat.

There is definitely much less rasp going on with his Vegeta though. I appreciate that.

And really...yelling is yelling as far as I can tell. No doubt some screams are better than others (I don't think he has any voices in DBZ but the VA Steve Staley is positively horrible at this) but given Sean still has the exact same voice for Goku, his yells really don't sound any different.

[Metalwario64]

How did Sabat sound "flat"? Every scene that demanded Vegeta actually show he's an emotional living being, he did well. (attacking Cell. his sacrifice against Buu, the infamous "a Saiyan always keeps his pride" bit...) I'm not that far yet but even if he has improved since then, and his attack against Cell is better voiced, I never once thought he sounded flat.

His Piccolo was always flat, and he initially tried using inflections and such for his Vegeta, and that lasted through the Boo-arc. Though, my problem with him then is that all of his inflections sounded very wrong, and ended up sounding like a guy reading a script. He tried to have arrogant inflections, but it sounded phony 95% of the time or so.

In the Ultimate Uncut dub, he just deepened his voice and upped the rasp further, and there he started to truly sound monotone. When he tried to yell, he sounded like he was trying to build up to something, but it never went anywhere, so he just sounded like an angry, growly guy, rather than evoking a sound akin to true anger. Pre UUE dub Sabat Vegeta's screams were always short-winded, and he made me think he was trying to sound "unleashed" or like a "wild animal". Some have put it as sounding like "Tasmanian Vegeta", which isn't too far off. I remember this was especially in the scenes where he said "The Saiyan Prince will not fall again-AAAAAGH-AARRRRRRGHH!!!", and when he was being driven insane by Boo when he and Goku were fighting him inside his head.

I do recall his delivery being pretty decent when he was talking to Piccolo before his sacrifice, and when he mentioned Bulma, Trunks and Goku right before though.

Thinking about it, I guess my post could be seen as coming across as being snobby, and I'd hate it if anyone took that from it, so let me just say that this is how I hear it, and these are my own assessments. If you feel differently than me, then I have no problem with that.

[Nikkolas]

Hey it's cool. I'm just trying to be the middleground guy here. I'm certainly enjoying the Kai dub but at the same time I never hated Z's like so many here do. (okay - I hated Season 3 but that should just be a given) It was mediocre and full of flaws but it had some perks that I love to this day.

I'll post more about this in the recasts topic but I should mention that I do enjoy Clinkenbeard's Gohan more than Nadolny's. There are times when Luffy creeps in there but most of the time it's very nice.

To be perfectly honest, my favorite Funi dub of anything DB-related is Dragon Ball. I realize that still had cast members and script alterations that people hate, but it's what made me absolutely love this series. Z was just a show I grew up with but Funi introduced me to something I loved so much that I am currently buying the manga.

I guess it just takes a lot for me to really hate something ya know?

[Metalwario64]

For the record, I don't hate Z's dub. I'm just trying to be as honest with it as I can be. I have a soft spot for it in regards to nostalgia (though that's to a lesser extent for the Boo-arc, because I kinda stopped watching the dub around that point, and saw a few of those episodes in Japanese before they aired in America), so I watch it like other cheesy cartoons I grew up with.

I did think the Boo-arc was really good for a while, but after Kai's dub ended, I tried to revisit the Boo-arc dub, and it simply just doesn't hold up that well anymore to me. It's better than all that came before it, but it still had quite a way to go.

I will say that I think their original Dragon Ball dub was their best at the time though. Even though their GT dub had a more accurate script, the acting was really a mixed bag. Goten and Pan sounded really phony, and Nadolny sounded worse. I remember one scene where Goku was screaming, and sounded so raspy and forced that it sounded a shrieking cat or something.

[Nikkolas]

See, maybe it's just because it's my favorite arc in Z, but I thought things took a definite turn for the better in the Cell Saga. I absolutely adore Meredith McCoy as Eighteen and I also really liked Vale's Future Trunks, Huber's Seventeen and Damaen Clarke's Perfect Cell. If I were to make a Top 5 list of favorite Dub VAs, I think at least three of those would be on there.

Since you mentioned the Buu Saga though, a shoe-in for my Top 5 would be Rick Robertson's Dabura. A tragically underrated performance for a tragically underrated character. I hope they get him back for Kai.

i will admit that I was never impressed with Sabat's Piccolo. I liked his King Piccolo though.

Anyway - I started Kai because I was not very happy with Clinkenbeard's 18 and I wanted to see the rest of the anime before I made a real opinion on how the dubs compared. I try to be as far as i can be, I guess.

And yeah I have no idea what happened with the GT dub. That was just...very off. A lot of the VAs seemed to regress or something. Maybe they just didn't have any enthusiasm for the show.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I wanna say I like it but I'm honestly unimpressed. The pacing and dub are fantastic but the fights are incredibly choppy. Plus the animation by today's standards is terrible. I often find myself reading the manga before watching any version of the anime.

[Metalwario64]

Since you mentioned the Buu Saga though, a shoe-in for my Top 5 would be Rick Robertson's Dabura. A tragically underrated performance for a tragically underrated character. I hope they get him back for Kai.

i will admit that I was never impressed with Sabat's Piccolo. I liked his King Piccolo though.

Robterson's Dabura was very good. Even though it was slightly pitched down, it still sounded natural and well acted. I'd put it above Cook's Super Boo (after absorbing Gotenks)as well. His Super Boo was okay at first, but after absorbing Gotenks he started sounding like a pro wrestler or something. His delivery was way too over the top.

I also liked Sabat's Demon King Piccolo as well, but it was odd that he continued that performance for Piccolo Jr. was well.

[Nikkolas]

Did anybody else think the insert song in episode 17 ("Over the Star") when they're collecting Z fighters' bodies was horrendously out of place?
I don't think it suited the mood at all.

That's pretty much my only complaint about the music thus far though.

[B]

I thought it was fine. I don't really prefer it over the original, but it worked well enough.

[ABED]

I wanna say I like it but I'm honestly unimpressed. The pacing and dub are fantastic but the fights are incredibly choppy. Plus the animation by today's standards is terrible. I often find myself reading the manga before watching any version of the anime.

I disagree, other than the crappier animated episodes, the animation is gorgeous. I don't fall into the camp of new is better.