Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

[SylentEcho]

Check this out:

http://www.screwattack.com/news/death-b ... s-superman

This guy's calculations seem more accurate.

[VegettoEX]

Said individual has already posted in this thread, and we continue to say that it doesn't matter how much extra math you throw at Goku: Superman is always going to be able to overcome that.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Not really. Superman isn't unbeatable or anything. Goku is just gonna need a massive power up. A power up that overcomes even the likes of a short sun dip, at that point he could win. However people really should let this go. Superman is just the superior guy. Until Goku becomes nigh Omnipotent or something, he likely won't beat Superman in the long run.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Until Goku becomes nigh Omnipotent or something

The thing is, such being doesn't exist in the Dragon World.

[dario03]

Not really. Superman isn't unbeatable or anything. Goku is just gonna need a massive power up. A power up that overcomes even the likes of a short sun dip, at that point he could win. However people really should let this go. Superman is just the superior guy. Until Goku becomes nigh Omnipotent or something, he likely won't beat Superman in the long run.

I think VegettoEX meant using math on stuff that has already happened. Sure if Goku became nigh omnipotent he could win but that's never happened and if we start getting into stuff like that then there really isn't a conversation because we can just keep making up stuff for both guys.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Until Goku becomes nigh Omnipotent or something

The thing is, such being doesn't exist in the Dragon World.

As far as we know. I'd imagine one doesn't but I wouldn't be surprised if there was one.

[TonyTheTiger]

The thing is, such a being shouldn't exist in Dragon Ball. And if it were to exist, it damn sure better not be Goku. The entire point of Dragon Ball, if you can reduce it to one single concept, is about overcoming obstacles and bettering oneself. This hypothetical omnipotent Goku renders it all moot. Just look at GT. The vast majority of the complaints come down to it being the Goku Fanwank show. Superman may beat Goku in a fight but you know what? It's the required outcome for Dragon Ball to remain a quality product. The second Goku becomes strong enough to beat Supes you better end the story because it's going to suck after that. What's the point of continuing to fight or train? The reason why Superman can get away with being so powerful is because his story is about overcoming internal obstacles (existential "why am I here" kind of stuff) rather than pushing himself beyond his limits. Superman's best stories are rarely the ones in which he can just punch his way to victory. When's the last time Goku considered his purpose in the world? They're fundamentally different characters with different story needs. Superman needs to be powerful enough to make his existential crisis mean something. Goku needs to improve himself and thus needs actual room to make those improvements.

That's why the Goku>Superman people annoy me so much. They're basically rooting for Dragon Ball to suck. Dragon Ball is at it's best when it's a struggle to win. Not when Goku is an omnipotent demigod.

[Hellspawn28]

Dragon Ball does need all powerful god. I'm fine with Marvel, DC and Image comics having one, but I think I rather not have a universal creator in Dragon Ball. It's crazy enough that Pokemon has one.

[InfernalVegito]

Yeah a truly omnipotent being (in its absolute and most literal sense) would defeat the purpose of Dragon Ball.

[Black_Liger]

Yeah a truly omnipotent being (in its absolute and most literal sense) would defeat the purpose of Dragon Ball.

Not to mention Goku would definitely jump and said being and if he somehow manages to defeat him there's gonna be an uproar lol.

I'm not a DC Geek even though I Love batman, but I think there's a version of God in DC universe and even with all his power even Superman Prime is the second strongest being. (I THINK I'm not really well versed in Superman things)

[dario03]

Yeah a truly omnipotent being (in its absolute and most literal sense) would defeat the purpose of Dragon Ball.

Not to mention Goku would definitely jump and said being and if he somehow manages to defeat him there's gonna be an uproar lol.

I'm not a DC Geek even though I Love batman, but I think there's a version of God in DC universe and even with all his power even Superman Prime is the second strongest being. (I THINK I'm not really well versed in Superman things)

I don't think they ever really established who is second. Superman Prime 1,000,000 could be really powerful but there isn't much seen from him. Usually I think the second most powerful (after the presence) is supposed to be someone like
Spectre (varies in power to such a insane degree though because he is as powerful as needed for the job that he is doing),
Michael/Lucifer (combined are like the presence and I think have been said to only be second to the presence),
Great Evil Beast (said to be pure darkness and outside of the presence creation (not made by the presence), also said to be the presence dark sides and it merges with the presence later on)
mr mxyzptlk (weird but sometimes he is shown to have stupid amounts of power),
The Brothers - 2 beings that were the embodiments of all of DC and Marvel in the DC/Marvel cross-over(which is also odd because that sounds like it could be the presence or more powerful but I usually see people saying that the presence is stronger) but that was non-canon and I think retconned later.
Mandrakk, (could destroy everything)
Anti-Monitor (basically destroyed everything)
Superman Thought Robot,
I think theres some others too but I would say Michael and Lucifer are the best bet for second most powerful beings in DC currently but the Great Evil Beast was probably more powerful even before merging with the presence. But there is also the Primal Monitor (abstract being that is so gigantic that the DC multiverse is actually like a germ to him and is inside of him and is a imperfection of himself). So he could actually be the presence or more powerful but I'm not sure if they ever clarified that.

[dbzfan7]

The day Toriyama or toei put an omnipotent being in DBZ, is the day Toriyama will start a whole new manga on Dragon Ball.

[Hellspawn28]

If Goku becomes nigh Omnipotent or Omnipotent then I will stop liking Dragon Ball forever. People would wank DBZ even more which is why I can't stand most DB vs. Comic book threads because there is never a good debate about them.

[The Monkey King]

Tori-Bot would own Superman in an instant

[dbzfan7]

Tori-Bot would own Superman in an instant

IDK Superman is good at bringing out random powers out of his ass. He could rainbow beam Tori-Bot or maybe make up a god removal clap attack.

Also I have been watching STAS. He's more likable here as he isn't a God. Though I like the George Newbern Superman more in JL/JLU. Tim was much better in public enemies so I would need time to choose who is the better Superman.

[rereboy]

Check this out:

http://www.screwattack.com/news/death-b ... s-superman

This guy's calculations seem more accurate.

He argues that it only takes one second for Goku to travel across Namek (a planet bigger than Earth) in the Namek saga, but he then apparently forgets that when Goku returned to Earth, and then disappeared for a second and appeared with Roshi's glasses, everybody immediately believed that he had used a teleportation technique. So... Yeah...

[Chou Gohan]

There's one simple explanation I always believed for why Goku made teleportation believable for covering a huge distance in a mere second when there is evidence that he may have been able to do so without teleporting. The speed one can fly is proportional to how high he raises his ki. On Namek, when Kuririn and Gohan were going to visit the old namek, it took them a long time because they were trying to keep their ki low enough that Vegeta would not sense them. The moment they decided to speed up to cover the remaining distance, Vegeta immediately noticed them. Goku didn't seem powered up any when he was explaining his technique, so the fact that he was gone and back without raising his ki at all seemed like the proof that he must have teleported. Goku would have to have notably powered up (maybe even turn ssj) to cover that distance in a blink, which they would have sensed. Yet he didn't, which meant he really did teleport.

[rereboy]

Then why the need to mention exactly how far Roshi was from their location without mentioning that Goku didn't even raised his Ki?

That explanation might be possible but its highly unlikely. It seems like grasping at straws in an attempt to prove that Goku is faster than that situation is implying.

[RandomGuy96]

Recently watched this. It was not very good. In general: their methods relied way too much on baseless speculation while ignoring more concrete evidence, and their result was very questionable. Generally I agree that Superman would stomp canon Goku, but no way he's touching GT Goku when you stop to think about the implications of Cell's Solar Kamehameha.

[Zephyr]

Recently watched this. It was not very good. In general: their methods relied way too much on baseless speculation while ignoring more concrete evidence, and their result was very questionable. Generally I agree that Superman would stomp canon Goku, but no way he's touching GT Goku when you stop to think about the implications of Cell's Solar Kamehameha.

I don't see how any version of Goku can be conceived to stand a chance. I'm just gonna quote TonyTheTiger yet again:

Given how high Superman's numbers are, I can't conceive of any calculations, using any criteria, that could get Goku anywhere near high enough to cause doubt in the results. Let's say GT base Goku is equal to Z-era Super Saiyan 3. So, for his strength, we take the 40 tons at base in Z, multiply it by 400 (SSJ3 multiplier), and we get 16,000 tons. Now we make that his base strength and multiply it by 4000 to reach his Super Saiyan 4 strength to get 64,000,000 tons. He's still 1,040,625,000,000 times weaker than Superman. How in the world is any feat from GT or any math whatsoever going to prove Goku is over one trillion times stronger than what I just calculated? You have the same problem with the durability rating.

Hell, let's even use Gogeta and assume Goku and Vegeta are straight up multiplied together. Assuming Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta has the same strength as Goku, 64,000,000 X 64,000,000 gives us 4,096,000,000,000,000 tons. Still about 16,260 times weaker than Superman's 66.6 quintillion.

Am I missing something? Is there any way to measure Goku's power (that doesn't involve random guessing) that puts him anywhere close to Clark's numbers?