Brilliant (but subtle) writing in Dragonball

[ABED]

I like that Cell, at least in the beginning, was sneaky. Most villains like to push their weight around, even when they are outmatched. However, if Cell knows he can't win, he lives to fight another day.

[CaBrPi]

I always did have to wonder how the Taiyoken worked on people who don't need to see you to know exactly where you are.

[ABED]

Unless you close your eyes, being temporary blinded is painful.

[rereboy]

I always did have to wonder how the Taiyoken worked on people who don't need to see you to know exactly where you are.

If you suppress your Ki and the enemy is temporarily blind, the enemy has no way of knowing where you are at all.

That was Cell's strategy in a nutshell when he was hiding from Piccolo: blind the enemy so they can't see where you're going (also causing them pain in their eyes, which is distracting) and suppress your Ki so they can't follow you or know where you are through Ki detection.

[Aoi]

I always really dug how Dragon Ball could be so touching and profound when you least expected it. Especially in the mist of so much wackiness and drama. One small, but poignant moment (for me), is when Android 16 tells Android 18 that he thinks they are good people, as they had never taken the lives to any innocents when they had ample opportunities to do so. Cell, on the other hand, believes himself to be as omnipotent as they did, and yet he disposes of life like it's nothing. I always enjoyed Toriyama's "little moments". They're very genuine, and somehow left a strong impression on me because it's so subtle.

[Attitudefan]

I always really dug how Dragon Ball could be so touching and profound when you least expected it. Especially in the mist of so much wackiness and drama. One small, but poignant moment (for me), is when Android 16 tells Android 18 that he thinks they are good people, as they had never taken the lives to any innocents when they had ample opportunities to do so. Cell, on the other hand, believes himself to be as omnipotent as they did, and yet he disposes of life like it's nothing. I always enjoyed Toriyama's "little moments". They're very genuine, and somehow left a strong impression on me because it's so subtle.

I think that's why I love the series. Toriyama is a fantastic writer but sometimes, the audience doesn't even realize it.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

I thought it was a cool idea that the Z team had become so use to sensing ki that they had lost their skill for tracking using just their normal five senses.

One of the several reasons I loved #19 and #20's bit.

[CashmanX]

I loved the Ginyu force insignia on the pod the goku landed on earth. Great way to write around how Goku got off Namek.

[VyeRo]

I love the scene at the end of the Buu fight in which Dende heals Vegeta. There is such a difference between this scene and the one on Namek. The moment when Dende doesn't want to heal Vegeta, eventually does...and then gets kicked aside as a 'thanks'. The fact that Dende goes up to Vegeta willingly and heals him is a nice throwback to that moment on Namek, and shows how much Vegeta has changed (or earned Dende's respect).

[Akumaito Beam]

One moment always sticks out in my mind, clear as day. I might be reading a little too much into this but I think it's super neat.

Way back in the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai Muten Roshi is afraid of his pupils getting egotistical from winning the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai. He goes so far as to dress up in disguise to fight them and assure their loss. Afterwards he makes a big speech about there always being someone stronger out there, Goku and Kuririn take it to heart and all seems well. Surely our pure hearted Goku would never get a big head about anything. Volumes later Goku has consumed a potion that brings out his latent Great Ape powers and destroyed the most powerful demon that the Earth has ever seen. He has pretty much peaked in strength and KI alike and at this point he's on his way to train with God himself. Son is pretty much the biggest fish in an incredibly small pond. He then runs into Mr.Popo who requests a fight. This is where Goku starts behaving pretty differently from what we've seen before. He starts putting on cocky smirks and waggling his finger, calling Mr.Popo's first blow "lucky". Of course he gets his ass handed to him and Popo tells him he might be physically strong but his mind is incredibly weak. Goku goes back to being humbled and he's once again a small fish in a big pond.

[matt0044]

Goku starts the series wearing an emblem on his outfit, then about midway through the series he stops wearing it. One would think Toriyama or the animators just got tired of it but you could see it as symbolic. He started the show as a student of Roshi and King Kai. Then after he became a Super Saiyan, he stopped wearing the symbols because he's now the master.

[Makaioshin]

Goku starts the series wearing an emblem on his outfit, then about midway through the series he stops wearing it. One would think Toriyama or the animators just got tired of it but you could see it as symbolic. He started the show as a student of Roshi and King Kai. Then after he became a Super Saiyan, he stopped wearing the symbols because he's now the master.

That is the impression I got from the one he had in the Freeza arc/BoG(Go).

[Godo]

One moment always sticks out in my mind, clear as day. I might be reading a little too much into this but I think it's super neat.

Way back in the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai Muten Roshi is afraid of his pupils getting egotistical from winning the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai. He goes so far as to dress up in disguise to fight them and assure their loss. Afterwards he makes a big speech about there always being someone stronger out there, Goku and Kuririn take it to heart and all seems well. Surely our pure hearted Goku would never get a big head about anything. Volumes later Goku has consumed a potion that brings out his latent Great Ape powers and destroyed the most powerful demon that the Earth has ever seen. He has pretty much peaked in strength and KI alike and at this point he's on his way to train with God himself. Son is pretty much the biggest fish in an incredibly small pond. He then runs into Mr.Popo who requests a fight. This is where Goku starts behaving pretty differently from what we've seen before. He starts putting on cocky smirks and waggling his finger, calling Mr.Popo's first blow "lucky". Of course he gets his ass handed to him and Popo tells him he might be physically strong but his mind is incredibly weak. Goku goes back to being humbled and he's once again a small fish in a big pond.

Yeah I noticed that too.
It was really well written!

[NeoKING]

Toriyama's writing only got "brilliant" when Z came around. Up until then, Dragon Ball was such a simple manga that even to this day I don't see what the appeal was to everything pre-Raditz. It wasn't funny, the art was lame, the characters were so-so.

[rereboy]

Toriyama's writing only got "brilliant" when Z came around. Up until then, Dragon Ball was such a simple manga that even to this day I don't see what the appeal was to everything pre-Raditz. It wasn't funny, the art was lame, the characters were so-so.

[NeoKING]

Toriyama's writing only got "brilliant" when Z came around. Up until then, Dragon Ball was such a simple manga that even to this day I don't see what the appeal was to everything pre-Raditz. It wasn't funny, the art was lame, the characters were so-so.

Explain, please, how Toriyama's a genius, and how Dragon Ball isn't pretty much a simple, predictable shonen story. I love it, of course, but if it came out today and I read it, I'd be bored to death.

[rereboy]

Explain, please, how Toriyama's a genius, and how Dragon Ball isn't pretty much a simple, predictable shonen story. I love it, of course, but if it came out today and I read it, I'd be bored to death.

In my opinion, DBZ is much more predicable than DB and almost everything in DB is better than DBZ. I fail to see how DBZ is brilliant and DB isn't, which is what you stated.

And I'd still like DB today if I didn't know it. I'd like it less because there would be no nostalgia factor, but Dragon Ball is just good old fun. I would prefer it to many shounens out there, including recent and on going ones.

[Marco Polo]

Explain, please, how Toriyama's a genius, and how Dragon Ball isn't pretty much a simple, predictable shonen story. I love it, of course, but if it came out today and I read it, I'd be bored to death.

Here's a post from another forum, concerning DB:

one of the fights in dragon ball was master roshi dressed up as "jackie chun" and then fighting a werewolf (excuse me, wereman) who was upset because jackie chun casually blew up the moon a year ago to stop a giant monkey alien child, and roshi thinks fast and uses a bald boy's head and hypnosis to turn the wolfman back into a human (and he technically beats the wolfman by throwing a doggie biscuit outside of the ring)

It might be a gag manga, but it's still fun, very well written, clever and far from predictable IMO.

[Attitudefan]

One moment always sticks out in my mind, clear as day. I might be reading a little too much into this but I think it's super neat.

Way back in the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai Muten Roshi is afraid of his pupils getting egotistical from winning the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai. He goes so far as to dress up in disguise to fight them and assure their loss. Afterwards he makes a big speech about there always being someone stronger out there, Goku and Kuririn take it to heart and all seems well. Surely our pure hearted Goku would never get a big head about anything. Volumes later Goku has consumed a potion that brings out his latent Great Ape powers and destroyed the most powerful demon that the Earth has ever seen. He has pretty much peaked in strength and KI alike and at this point he's on his way to train with God himself. Son is pretty much the biggest fish in an incredibly small pond. He then runs into Mr.Popo who requests a fight. This is where Goku starts behaving pretty differently from what we've seen before. He starts putting on cocky smirks and waggling his finger, calling Mr.Popo's first blow "lucky". Of course he gets his ass handed to him and Popo tells him he might be physically strong but his mind is incredibly weak. Goku goes back to being humbled and he's once again a small fish in a big pond.

Very true. It was Goku's first major win and he becomes what Roshi had feared!

Toriyama's writing only got "brilliant" when Z came around. Up until then, Dragon Ball was such a simple manga that even to this day I don't see what the appeal was to everything pre-Raditz. It wasn't funny, the art was lame, the characters were so-so.

Really? I disagree. If you think about it, the whole Saiyan arc was a fight. That's it.

Now Dragonball isn't Shakespeare, but it is hardly predictable and is very inticing to read/watch.

[ABED]

Even though you could argue the Saiyan arc is one big fight, it's still a well done fight. I have no problem with Dragonball z being a shonen manga when what I want is a shonen manga. It's possible to enjoy different things for different reasons. Sometimes you just want to see a main character punch evil in its stupid face instead of contemplating what it means to be evil.

If anyone thinks Dragon Ball was predictable, I point to the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai. Who thought Goku would've lost?