The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[RandomGuy96]

Well, sort of. The Daizenshuu says that Movie 5 is set in the middle of the android training. At the beginning of the movie, Roshi says that Goku's gotten much more powerful since he returned to Earth. Then he got a zenkai; he was already described as more powerful than Yardrat Goku, and that zenkai would've made him even more so. In Return of Cooler, Goku confirms that he went to Yardrat, supporting what the Daizenshuu said.

[Kaboom]

There is the early line about him having gotten stronger, but I don't think him getting a healing boost later is necessarily the case. It's just as to say he just "got serious" when he faced Coola again. Especially since we're usually told outright when someone's reaped a healing boost; if not in the dialogue itself, then in something supplementary, like how Daizenshuu #6 points it out for Broly in Movie 10. But I see what you're getting at regardless.

[RandomGuy96]

Well, it was commented on in the movie how he was much stronger than before. Salza said this, so you could say Goku just was suppressed earlier, but it would be kind of weird from a Doylist perspective to both have Goku recover from near death right before facing Cooler and put in that line when he wasn't implied to be suppressed earlier. He also wasn't powering up or preparing to fight when Salza said this. Plus the last zenkai Goku got before this film was made was massive, and the filmmakers were likely going off that logic. He was also pretty obviously near death, so there's no reason it shouldn't have made him stronger. Unless that "being a Super Saiyan means no more near death power-ups" thing isn't just fanon.

[Kaboom]

Unless that "being a Super Saiyan means no more near death power-ups" thing isn't just fanon.

It's not entirely fanon, at least. One of the Daizenshuu does point out that healing boosts became "small" after Super Saiyan was attained, but the word it uses was a bit vague. It's still enough to be a prime factor in my own approach to these sort of things though, and generally I try to consider other options for apparent strength increases before resorting to assuming it was a healing boost. In Broly's case, for example, we're actually just plain told he got one, and it's easy enough to assume that his "Legendary" condition might make him special in that regard.

[RandomGuy96]

Like I said earlier, from a Doylist perspective, in a film that was obviously supposed to be based on the Freeza battle, it seems odd that they'd go through all the motions and NOT give Goku a power-up like he had against Freeza, despite the circumstances being similar. In addition to that, Goku never fights Cooler properly until after he heals (same case for Goku and Freeza), and a power increase after Goku's healing is commented on in-universe. Once again, it would seem really weird for the filmmakers to go out of their way to structure the movie that way and throw in those lines if Goku wasn't any stronger than he was at the beginning of the movie.

I honestly think that the makers of the film intended base Goku to be stronger than Freeza, simply because if this movie was meant to parallel the Freeza fight, it would make perfect sense with a x33 boost. But if you want to make sense of it and go with what the Daizenshuu says- that this was set during the android training and zenkais became "small" after the Freeza saga- you can probably just assume that they meant relatively small, and give Movie 5 Goku a 25% or 33% boost or something. Pre-zenkai Goku being slightly weaker than fifth form Cooler works for me.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Howzabout....
Nappa vs the three fighter-type Namekians that Dodoria killed.
Piccolo(Cell Saga) vs Metal Cooler
Metal Cooler vs (initial) Imperfect Cell
Mr. Satan vs King Chappa
Vegeta (Buu Arc SSJ) vs Bojacks henchmen
Sick Goku vs Freeza (50%/70%/100%)
Yakon vs Android 20, to see who could absorb the most energy
Old Piccolo Daimao vs Drum
Slug's henchmen vs Recoome, Jeice, and Burter
....and that's all for now.

-Namekians
-Depends, Cell Games or early Cell arc? Cell Games Piccolo stomps, Cooler after a repair beats early Cell arc Piccolo.
-King Chappa
-Vegeta probably
-Freeza
-Yakon
-Hmm, probably Piccolo
-the Ginyu's.

[dbzfan7]

Howzabout....
Nappa vs the three fighter-type Namekians that Dodoria killed.
Piccolo(Cell Saga) vs Metal Cooler
Metal Cooler vs (initial) Imperfect Cell
Mr. Satan vs King Chappa
Vegeta (Buu Arc SSJ) vs Bojacks henchmen
Sick Goku vs Freeza (50%/70%/100%)
Yakon vs Android 20, to see who could absorb the most energy
Old Piccolo Daimao vs Drum
Slug's henchmen vs Recoome, Jeice, and Burter
....and that's all for now.

I guess the Namekians can pull of a win after a long struggle.
Piccolo demolishes
Imperfect Cell
King Chappa
Bojacks henchmen as they were able to restrain SSJ Kid Gohan with no problems, Vegeta is not far off from that level.
Freeza 100% takes it as even if Goku is somewhat stronger.
Does 19 have a limit. I can't really answer
Old Daimao
Could go either way, but I guess the Ginyu members could have good team moves to win.

[Kamiccolo9]

The Saiyan race vs the Namekian race
If that doesn't work, how about a Saiyan warrior vs a Fighter-type Namekian at equal strength.

[RandomGuy96]

Pre or post Freeza's bad mood?

[Kamiccolo9]

Pre or post Freeza's bad mood?

Ha, pre. 4 saiyans against 100 ish Namekians doesn't really seem fair.
Edit: And let's take out the outliers. No Vegeta family, and no Nail.

[RandomGuy96]

Does millions of saiyans vs 100-ish Namekians seem fair?

Also, taking away the Vegeta family and Nail seems unfair as well- mostly because Nail is far and away the strongest on Namek, while Bardock is basically King Vegeta's equal.

[Kamiccolo9]

Does millions of saiyans vs 100-ish Namekians seem fair?

Also, taking away the Vegeta family and Nail seems unfair as well- mostly because Nail is far and away the strongest on Namek, while Bardock is basically King Vegeta's equal.

I was under the impression that the saiyan race was very small. Otherwise, why would all of a space-capable race be on the planet when Freeza blew it up? And if Raditz is indicative of the average saiyan, then the average Namekian fighter would be twice as strong.
Although, I do seem to remember something now about there not being many fighter types. Meh.
How about the other question? The average saiyan vs the average Namekian fighter at equal power?

[RandomGuy96]

Full moon or no? If so, this is obvious. If not, probably the Namekian. Regeneration gives them better survivability, and the saiyan has an obvious weakness in their tail.

[Kamiccolo9]

Full moon or no?

No. They already have a numerical advantage, and let's assume that they're fighting on Namek.

[RandomGuy96]

Wait, is this the entire Namekian race vs the entire pre-extinction Saiyan race or one Namek vs one Saiyan at equal power levels? I gave my answers for both. There are 100-ish Namekians, they simply wouldn't have a chance, even if their warriors are far stronger. The average Namekian warrior varied between 3,000 and 10,000 (though the latter warriors only appeared in filler, I think it's reliable enough for this situation), several times stronger than the average saiyan fighter, and their champion, Nail, was around four times stronger than King Vegeta.

[Kamiccolo9]

Wait, is this the entire Namekian race vs the entire pre-extinction Saiyan race or one Namek vs one Saiyan at equal power levels? I gave my answers for both. There are 100-ish Namekians, they simply wouldn't have a chance, even if their warriors are far stronger. The average Namekian warrior varied between 3,000 and 10,000 (though the latter warriors only appeared in filler, I think it's reliable enough for this situation), several times stronger than the average saiyan fighter, and their champion, Nail, was around four times stronger than King Vegeta.

Oh, well, I asked both in the first post, but it got kinda confusing later on. My bad
I get what your saying though. As a whole, the saiyans would win, but that 1 on 1 at equal strength the Namekian would.

[rereboy]

Nail alone could solo thousands of saiyans before he even got tired. And that would be the Saiyans only chance, that he got tired, because he is strong enough to take them all if he never got tired. At his power, he could kill their King with a gesture.

[RandomGuy96]

If he's going to try that, someone's going to get in a sneak attack, and it's going to hurt a lot. Repeat a hundred times. There's maybe one or two dozen Namekian warriors, they just have no chance, despite their impressive power.

[rereboy]

If he's going to try that, someone's going to get in a sneak attack, and it's going to hurt a lot. Repeat a hundred times. There's maybe one or two dozen Namekian warriors, they just have no chance, despite their impressive power.

A saiyan of 2000 or 3000 in power attacking one of 40000? The series has shown us many times that when the difference is that great, the attacks might as well be mosquito bites. Not to mention that Nail would also be way faster, making it hard to land any kind of attack at all even with great numbers if Nail wanted to avoid them.

Hell, the Earthlings weren't far from that level of power on Earth and even agaisnt Nappa, who was way closer to them than Nail, their struggle was desperate enough. Imagine if Nappa had 40000 in power level. I doubt that even hundreds of thounsands of krillins, Tenchinhans and Piccolo could have won if that was the case... He would just smash one after another and their only hope would be that he got tired.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

I'll be crazy and say that 4 Saiyans (Vegeta, Nappa, Radditz, and Goku) would win anyway. Vegeta would create an artificial moon, the Saiyans become Oozaru's, well minus Goku, and that should be game, set, match. I must be missing something, are they allowed to be Oozaru's?

Besides that, can't some of the really gifted elite make an artificial moon, if we take out Vegeta's family and Nail shouldn't the Saiyans win easier?