Battle Of Gods Implies SSJ3 Goku > Ultimate Gohan?

[FNF]

What if the man says two blatantly contradictory things?

Someone would likely correct him.

And if nobody does? You're left with inconsistencies, just like with the manga itself. The man isn't God, his word is not infallible. His statements and contributions that weren't in the manga are all in one form or another supplementary material to the manga, and not all supplementary material fits together. When two conflicting pieces of information that both are supplementary to the manga are being compared, the choice of which one is correct would likely be an arbitrary one because both pieces are equally valid, in that they are both supplementary rather than from the manga itself.

In short: Toriyama isn't God, and his statements made outside of the manga are just as much a supplement to it as filler is.

I wouldn't go that far because in that case it's on the same level as card game etc etc which really isn't true. AT is the creator of the original story and thus his word matters more than someone at Toei or some other company that creates official Dragonball material.

I would say though that since AT has a tendency to forget trivial stuff, that his word certainly isn't the 'be all, end all'.

[Zephyr]

his statements made outside of the manga are just as much a supplement to it as filler is.

I wouldn't go that far because in that case it's on the same level as card game etc etc which really isn't true. AT is the creator of the original story and thus his word matters more than someone at Toei or some other company that creates official Dragonball material.

I would say though that since AT has a tendency to forget trivial stuff, that his word certainly isn't the 'be all, end all'.

Both his statements and said card game are not part of the manga, thus they are a supplement to it.

That's not to say that you couldn't easily add more arbitrary tiers of relevance to these things, putting Toriyama's statements and things from guidebooks as supplementary material with more validity than other supplementary material. But even then, it's all still supplementary. Now, if parts of the manga were revised to explicitly convey said statements, then I'd hold them as higher than supplementary.

And his memory, coupled with his self admitted tendency to make things up on the spot when he makes statements, is another reason why I can't treat such statements as anything more than supplementary. Sure, he made things up as he went when he drew the manga, but he was still drawing the manga then.

[Sanity's_Theif]

According to the Daizenshuu, Super Saiya-jin 3 is the full potential of a Saiya-jin, so really, outside of his God powers, he wouldn't be able to get any stronger.

Well, unless he got more potential. Always a little more in the back!

I mean, why would Goku spend all that time training until Oob showed up, if he could never get stronger than his Boo-era SSj3 form?

This, and I never believe Gohan was much stronger if at all in the Buu Saga, and yes you can make a good case for that as I've seen around here, neither view is right because it all depends on how you interpret things, feel free to believe whichever view you wish, but I think by the time of BoG, Goku is already a decent amount stronger

[SaiyanZ]

I would say SSJ3 Goku > Ultimate Gohan if he had a dead body or was in Other World. If he didn't have either of those, there's no way in HFIL he's beating Ultimate Gohan. It's because of at least one of those weaknesses (the on which he told Piccolo after fighting Fat Buu) that I believe he was unsure of him and Vegeta being able to win against Super Buu, whereas against Kid he was in Other World thus boosting his confidence.

[Darkprince410]

According to the Daizenshuu, Super Saiya-jin 3 is the full potential of a Saiya-jin, so really, outside of his God powers, he wouldn't be able to get any stronger.

Well, unless he got more potential. Always a little more in the back!

I mean, why would Goku spend all that time training until Oob showed up, if he could never get stronger than his Boo-era SSj3 form?

This, and I never believe Gohan was much stronger if at all in the Buu Saga, and yes you can make a good case for that as I've seen around here, neither view is right because it all depends on how you interpret things, feel free to believe whichever view you wish, but I think by the time of BoG, Goku is already a decent amount stronger

According to the official bios from the movie though, Gohan is stronger than any pure Saiya-jin, so if he was stronger than any pure Saiya-jin (obviously excluding Ssj God) in the new movie, then he's even stronger than them during the Buu Saga.

[GTx10]

So let me get this right, Super Buu with Gohan's powers is the strongest Buu. It isn't him just saying he's the strongest Buu. This makes Kid Buu less of the beast he's made to be. Now Ultimate Gohan is the big cheese, he's stronger than any pure Saiyan YET, Super Vegeto is stronger than Gohan even thou he's a pure Saiyan. SSG is stronger than Super Vegeto. Super Buu being stronger than Kid bothers me because when I think Kid Buu I think "oh God were DOOMED!" when I think Super Buu I think "I got beat up by a piece of candy....."

I still say by BoG's time Goku's SS3 is better than Gohan. Otherwise why didn't Gohan give Beers a little challenge?

[Kamiccolo9]

So let me get this right, Super Buu with Gohan's powers is the strongest Buu. It isn't him just saying he's the strongest Buu. This makes Kid Buu less of the beast he's made to be. Now Ultimate Gohan is the big cheese, he's stronger than any pure Saiyan YET, Super Vegeto is stronger than Gohan even thou he's a pure Saiyan. SSG is stronger than Super Vegeto. Super Buu being stronger than Kid bothers me because when I think Kid Buu I think "oh God were DOOMED!" when I think Super Buu I think "I got beat up by a piece of candy....."

I still say by BoG's time Goku's SS3 is better than Gohan. Otherwise why didn't Gohan give Beers a little challenge?

Buuhan is worlds above Pure Buu.
Vegetto is a fusion, and is by far the strongest character in the series, at least until the new movie.
Gohan is stronger than Goku in the Buu Arc, because he stomped Super Buu, who Goku stated would kill him.
It's possible that Goku could have become stronger by the time of the new movie, there's no conclusive evidence supporting it.

[Darkprince410]

So let me get this right, Super Buu with Gohan's powers is the strongest Buu. It isn't him just saying he's the strongest Buu. This makes Kid Buu less of the beast he's made to be. Now Ultimate Gohan is the big cheese, he's stronger than any pure Saiyan YET, Super Vegeto is stronger than Gohan even thou he's a pure Saiyan. SSG is stronger than Super Vegeto. Super Buu being stronger than Kid bothers me because when I think Kid Buu I think "oh God were DOOMED!" when I think Super Buu I think "I got beat up by a piece of candy....."

I still say by BoG's time Goku's SS3 is better than Gohan. Otherwise why didn't Gohan give Beers a little challenge?

Given that it's his movie bio, there is no Vegetto. It's just Goku and Vegeta that are pure Saiya-jin. Likewise, remember how easily Birisu is able to take down Goku. Two blows and Goku as a Super Saiya-jin 3 is down. Gohan could be stronger than him and still come up well short of being able to do anything against him.

I never got that impression from Pure Buu, since when I think of Evil Buu, I think of one that could easily destroy the planet if he wanted to, but wanted a good fight, and held off their plans to completely destroy the planet so they could search for one of those good fights. The only thing that made Pure Buu so dangerous was that he was unpredictable.

[goku the krump dancer]

I think any of the Boos could be deemed as unpredictable though.

Fat Boo turned people into candy, took off a piece of his gut and used it as a lasso to restrain Vegeta and he turned people into clay and made a house out of them.

Super Boo wiped out the Earths entire population with one fell swoop, screamed so loud he blew a hole through the dimension and absorbed Gotenks, Piccolo and Gohan.

Kid Boo wasted little time in destroying the Earth and mimicked Kaioshin's teleport after only briefly seeing it once.

The Z fighters didn't see ANY of that coming at all, the only thing that was predicable on Boo's part was his insane regeneration, which is why Goku wasn't surprised that Boo reformed after Earth's explosion.

[Draken]

I think any of the Boos could be deemed as unpredictable though.

Fat Boo turned people into candy, took off a piece of his gut and used it as a lasso to restrain Vegeta and he turned people into clay and made a house out of them.

Super Boo wiped out the Earths entire population with one fell swoop, screamed so loud he blew a hole through the dimension and absorbed Gotenks, Piccolo and Gohan.

Kid Boo wasted little time in destroying the Earth and mimicked Kaioshin's teleport after only briefly seeing it once.

The Z fighters didn't see ANY of that coming at all, the only thing that was predicable on Boo's part was his insane regeneration, which is why Goku wasn't surprised that Boo reformed after Earth's explosion.

That's not unpredictable in the sense that they were using the word. Kid Buu was unpredictable and uncontrollable and the most dangerous because he was barely sentient. Couldn't speak, couldn't be controlled by his own creator, and didn't seem to know much more than the next thing to blow up. Super Buu could at least talk and he was intelligent, Fat Buu turning people into candy isn't unpredictable in the way the word was being used, and learning I'm is not unpredictable in the sense they were using it. Unpredictable as in since he's so crazy/deformed/not sentient, you don't know what he'll do next. Super Buu was much more predictable because he could think and talk, screaming a hole is surprising sure, but he was doing it to escape, which was predictable, he'd want to escape.

[goku the krump dancer]

I think any of the Boos could be deemed as unpredictable though.

Fat Boo turned people into candy, took off a piece of his gut and used it as a lasso to restrain Vegeta and he turned people into clay and made a house out of them.

Super Boo wiped out the Earths entire population with one fell swoop, screamed so loud he blew a hole through the dimension and absorbed Gotenks, Piccolo and Gohan.

Kid Boo wasted little time in destroying the Earth and mimicked Kaioshin's teleport after only briefly seeing it once.

The Z fighters didn't see ANY of that coming at all, the only thing that was predicable on Boo's part was his insane regeneration, which is why Goku wasn't surprised that Boo reformed after Earth's explosion.

That's not unpredictable in the sense that they were using the word. Kid Buu was unpredictable and uncontrollable and the most dangerous because he was barely sentient. Couldn't speak, couldn't be controlled by his own creator, and didn't seem to know much more than the next thing to blow up.

I know that, I was just offering a different way to look at it for the sake of doing so and even then its not like i was completely wrong or off, Boo as a whole is just a completely unpredictable and spontaneous character but thats a discussion for a different day.

[Draken]

I think any of the Boos could be deemed as unpredictable though.

Fat Boo turned people into candy, took off a piece of his gut and used it as a lasso to restrain Vegeta and he turned people into clay and made a house out of them.

Super Boo wiped out the Earths entire population with one fell swoop, screamed so loud he blew a hole through the dimension and absorbed Gotenks, Piccolo and Gohan.

Kid Boo wasted little time in destroying the Earth and mimicked Kaioshin's teleport after only briefly seeing it once.

The Z fighters didn't see ANY of that coming at all, the only thing that was predicable on Boo's part was his insane regeneration, which is why Goku wasn't surprised that Boo reformed after Earth's explosion.

That's not unpredictable in the sense that they were using the word. Kid Buu was unpredictable and uncontrollable and the most dangerous because he was barely sentient. Couldn't speak, couldn't be controlled by his own creator, and didn't seem to know much more than the next thing to blow up.

I know that, I was just offering a different way to look at it for the sake of doing so and even then its not like i was completely wrong or off, Boo as a whole is just a completely unpredictable and spontaneous character but thats a discussion for a different day.

Really, any character in the story could be unpredictable then Well, main character at any rate LOL.

[Zephyr]

I still say by BoG's time Goku's SS3 is better than Gohan. Otherwise why didn't Gohan give Beers a little challenge?

All that shows is that they're both vaaaastly weaker than Beers.

[Duo]

The point of the first part of the movie is to show that everybody is equally useless against the God of Destruction. How they match up beyond that is irrelevant in the context of the story.

[SaiyanZ]

I think any of the Boos could be deemed as unpredictable though.

Fat Boo turned people into candy, took off a piece of his gut and used it as a lasso to restrain Vegeta and he turned people into clay and made a house out of them.

Super Boo wiped out the Earths entire population with one fell swoop, screamed so loud he blew a hole through the dimension and absorbed Gotenks, Piccolo and Gohan.

Kid Boo wasted little time in destroying the Earth and mimicked Kaioshin's teleport after only briefly seeing it once.

The Z fighters didn't see ANY of that coming at all, the only thing that was predicable on Boo's part was his insane regeneration, which is why Goku wasn't surprised that Boo reformed after Earth's explosion.

That's not unpredictable in the sense that they were using the word. Kid Buu was unpredictable and uncontrollable and the most dangerous because he was barely sentient. Couldn't speak, couldn't be controlled by his own creator, and didn't seem to know much more than the next thing to blow up.

I know that, I was just offering a different way to look at it for the sake of doing so and even then its not like i was completely wrong or off, Boo as a whole is just a completely unpredictable and spontaneous character but thats a discussion for a different day.

I agree, I mean Buu after he absorbed Gotenks was ready to blow up the Earth at a whim before Goku used the Destructo Disc/Kienzan. Not to mention his plan to absorb people was unpredictable as well. I don't think Kid Buu was more spontaneous/unpredictable than his other forms just because he blew up the Earth right then and there, if anything, those with more intelligence/sentience should be considered just as dangerous if not more