Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[RandomGuy96]

Doing the levels for the other movies not on my previous list (except for Movie 2 and Movie 13). Does anyone know where to place Slug and co? King Kai says he's stronger than Freeza, and this movie could've conceivably taken place in an alternate universe where Goku killed Freeza with the Spirit Bomb and returned to Earth right after, but what form of Freeza was Kai talking about? Does he know how strong Freeza's forms are? Gods are a surprisingly useless source of power information now that I think about it...

[Zephyr]

Like I said earlier, Piccolo is explicitly compared to a Super Saiyan, and seems to be in the same "tier" as them at least, so it's very unlikely he's a hundred times weaker than them like you seem to think.

Not exactly:

Chapter: 346 (DBZ 152), P12.4
Kuririn: “He’s st-strong…! What kind of training did Piccolo do…And he’s not even a Su-Super Saiyan…”

Chapter: 347 (DBZ 153), P3.5
Tenshinhan: “I don’t like that Piccolo and Vegeta have powered up so extraordinarily, but for now at least it’s a relief…”

This to me just seems like Krillin being surprised that Piccolo could be so far ahead of the humans without being a SSj. That doesn't mean Piccolo is as strong as a SSJ, just that Piccolo is insanely more powerful than he is, just like a SSj is insanely more powerful than he is. Tenshinhan also seems to be commenting on the fact that both of the non-humans are so far ahead of the humans. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're equally ridiculously far ahead of the humans. Granted, they very well could be in the same tier, but there's nothing that explicitly suggests that they are. Then we have this:

Chapter: 346 (DBZ 152), P1.5
No.20: “So then…Who’s energy shall I take?...So Piccolo’s the most powerful after Vegeta, huh?...”

I personally take this to mean that Piccolo's not in the same tier as the SSjs, because what point would there be in making a distinction in their power if they were?

To add to this, I was watching the anime last night (yeah, yeah, I know, manga only etc), and right after #17 and #18 beat everybody, a comment was made to the effect of "if the Super Saiyans can't beat them then nobody can!" I don't remember the exact wording, and I'm not at home so I can't check what the exact wording was (but I can when I get home later tonight).


In short, I think things are just vague enough that the statements could be interpreted as meaning that Piccolo is in the SSj tier, or that he is below SSj tier, but still far beyond what the humans could hope to achieve. And the thing that tips it towards the latter for me is trying to accept that he could catch up with 2 power boosts in just a few years of training. And I don't feel that just because somebody increased their BP by X times in Y amount of time that they'll have that exact same growth pattern for that same kind of training every time they train. For all we know the increase in BP could be through addition, rather than multiplication, but I doubt it's either. Power growth just doesn't seem to be that linear and formulaic to me.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Got to PG 108.

[RandomGuy96]

My problems with that list are basically the same as the last.

First of all, you mixed up Drum and Tambourine. Secondly, Cymbal and Tambourine are way too close. King Piccolo would never expect Tambourine to curbstomp the guy who killed Cymbal if they were that close.

Why did Piccolo gain so little in two years of training, between Namek and Yardrat? He got nine times stronger in that same time when training in the wilderness for the saiyans. Goku and Trunks also shouldn't be so close; Trunks said that he was not only strong, but he was even stronger than the legends made out, and that Goku's legendary power gave him hope. He wouldn't say that if Goku was only equal to him.

Cooler's, Piccolo's and especially Salza's numbers can't work. Actually, Salza's number can't work as is, but I've said that before. Cooler's statements really, really disprove that whole thing. He says that base Goku beat Freeza, despite knowing that Freeza was killed in his final form, where he can shoot up to 70% power (84,000,000) in in instant. Hell, Piccolo should be more than four million, given this is post-Yardrat and everything. You also make Cooler look like an idiot for just not dialing up his power to 10% and scoring a one hit kill, like you think he could do. There's also no reason Cooler should be weaker than final form Freeza in his own final form and no reason that Goku and Cooler should be SO close.

Imperfect Cell is waaaaaaaaay too weak. He completely tanked a heavily amplified blast from Kamiccolo with no damage at all, whereas Nappa and Raditz (for example) at least had to take the effort to deflect blasts that were 75% of their strength. Cell should be twice as strong as Piccolo minimum. Semi-Perfect Cell should also be stronger to show no reaction at all from a punch from Android 16. The gaps between Vegeta and both Cells also seem very small for the pure amount of pwnage present. Also, again, there's no real reason Trunks should be on par with Goku and Vegeta- he especially shouldn't be so close in power to them.

There's no reason Broly should be so high. Goku + everyone else's energy should also be way higher, because he managed to kill Broly in one hit. That is not an indication that they were equals.

Southern Supreme Kai should not be weaker than a SS2. He should be near Kid Buu in power; it just seems really weird that Buu decided to kill the first two Kais and just decided that he needed to absorb the strongest one, even though we never see Buu absorb someone unless he's desperate and outmatched. The multiplication thing also seems random again, but I haven't really thought of a better explanation for why SS Gotenks > Majin Vegeta, so I can't really fault you there. The Grand Supreme Kai is also stated to be weaker than the Southern Supreme Kai.

Once again, Videl seems really overrated. What has she ever done that justifies placing her that high? Stronger than Goku at the beginning of Dragon Ball no less.

The 10 years later... yeah I'm not even touching that.

[dbzfan7]

Vegeta above Base Vegetto and SSJ Gogeta when enraged is far fetched.

[TheMightyOzaru]

My problems with that list are basically the same as the last.

First of all, you mixed up Drum and Tambourine. Secondly, Cymbal and Tambourine are way too close. King Piccolo would never expect Tambourine to curbstomp the guy who killed Cymbal if they were that close.

Why did Piccolo gain so little in two years of training, between Namek and Yardrat? He got nine times stronger in that same time when training in the wilderness for the saiyans. Goku and Trunks also shouldn't be so close; Trunks said that he was not only strong, but he was even stronger than the legends made out, and that Goku's legendary power gave him hope. He wouldn't say that if Goku was only equal to him.

Cooler's, Piccolo's and especially Salza's numbers can't work. Actually, Salza's number can't work as is, but I've said that before. Cooler's statements really, really disprove that whole thing. He says that base Goku beat Freeza, despite knowing that Freeza was killed in his final form, where he can shoot up to 70% power (84,000,000) in in instant. Hell, Piccolo should be more than four million, given this is post-Yardrat and everything. You also make Cooler look like an idiot for just not dialing up his power to 10% and scoring a one hit kill, like you think he could do. There's also no reason Cooler should be weaker than final form Freeza in his own final form and no reason that Goku and Cooler should be SO close.

Imperfect Cell is waaaaaaaaay too weak. He completely tanked a heavily amplified blast from Kamiccolo with no damage at all, whereas Nappa and Raditz (for example) at least had to take the effort to deflect blasts that were 75% of their strength. Cell should be twice as strong as Piccolo minimum. Semi-Perfect Cell should also be stronger to show no reaction at all from a punch from Android 16. The gaps between Vegeta and both Cells also seem very small for the pure amount of pwnage present. Also, again, there's no real reason Trunks should be on par with Goku and Vegeta- he especially shouldn't be so close in power to them.

There's no reason Broly should be so high. Goku + everyone else's energy should also be way higher, because he managed to kill Broly in one hit. That is not an indication that they were equals.

Southern Supreme Kai should not be weaker than a SS2. He should be near Kid Buu in power; it just seems really weird that Buu decided to kill the first two Kais and just decided that he needed to absorb the strongest one, even though we never see Buu absorb someone unless he's desperate and outmatched. The multiplication thing also seems random again, but I haven't really thought of a better explanation for why SS Gotenks > Majin Vegeta, so I can't really fault you there. The Grand Supreme Kai is also stated to be weaker than the Southern Supreme Kai.

Once again, Videl seems really overrated. What has she ever done that justifies placing her that high? Stronger than Goku at the beginning of Dragon Ball no less.

The 10 years later... yeah I'm not even touching that.

Have you ever once considered that, oh I don't know, you might be completely wrong here? I have put a lot of time into power levels and I feel this is the appropriate spot for everyone. I've thought about all of the above and these levels do work. I don't see how I mixed up Drum and Tambourine...? Cell can amplify his defense too... Southern Kaioshin never fights in the manga so we don't know how powerful he is. Secondly, his level works with how Buu reacts to Kaioshins. Mr Satan is stronger than Goku at the beginning of the series...

Vegeta above Base Vegetto and SSJ Gogeta when enraged is far fetched.

He actually hit Birusu so I think he got extremely powerful.

[dbzfan7]

He actually hit Birusu so I think he got extremely powerful.

I still say its ludicrous. A rage boost that is beyond a fusion between him and Goku is silly. We don't even know if Birus was humoring him or not? He trades blows with Birus before the power up which Goku couldn't even do as SSJ3. That means to me he is humoring Vegeta. He even knocks Vegeta out by poking him in the head. I think at anytime during Vegeta's rage he could have done that. I put that moment similar to his fight with Freeza and Cell. They basically let him attack and look like he is doing something, when in actuality he isn't.

[TheMightyOzaru]

He actually hit Birusu so I think he got extremely powerful.

I still say its ludicrous. A rage boost that is beyond a fusion between him and Goku is silly. We don't even know if Birus was humoring him or not? He trades blows with Birus before the power up which Goku couldn't even do as SSJ3. That means to me he is humoring Vegeta. He even knocks Vegeta out by poking him in the head. I think at anytime during Vegeta's rage he could have done that. I put that moment similar to his fight with Freeza and Cell. They basically let him attack and look like he is doing something, when in actuality he isn't.

I suppose that is true.

[RandomGuy96]

Have you ever once considered that, oh I don't know, you might be completely wrong here? I have put a lot of time into power levels and I feel this is the appropriate spot for everyone. I've thought about all of the above and these levels do work. I don't see how I mixed up Drum and Tambourine...? Cell can amplify his defense too... Southern Kaioshin never fights in the manga so we don't know how powerful he is. Secondly, his level works with how Buu reacts to Kaioshins. Mr Satan is stronger than Goku at the beginning of the series...

Of course I've considered it, but I've no reason to believe I am wrong, as most of what I stated has never been really rebutted with a good argument. If you have some good ones, by all means, convince me. I'm simply giving you feedback on your list- why would you even post the list here if you didn't want people to comment on it? You obviously do listen to feedback, as I notice that you changed some things I pointed out on the last list, like King Cold's, Pui Pui's, and Gohan's levels.

When I wrote that, you had Cymbal's and Drum's powers swapped, not Tambourine's and Drum's.

Cell can amplify his defense? When is that stated? When has anyone been able to do that without a barrier? You have the gap between Cell and 17/Kamiccolo being barley bigger than the gap between Freeza and Goku, and the former could actually hurt the latter with normal punches, which wasn't the case at all for Cell vs Piccolo.

That's your own little theory, so I can't really disprove it as there's no real evidence either way, but it seems really weird that Buu just so happened to use a desperation tactic on the third Kai who just so happened to be the strongest after he just killed the first two. It's also awfully convenient that the Kais just so happen to multiply his power (when nothing like that was stated) while Gohan and Gotenks don't...

Why would he be? He's never shown any of the feats that Goku did at the start of Dragon Ball, like being immune to bullets and crushing rocks bigger than him with his bare hands.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Anyone can increase their defense with Ki...

[Mjb1985]

Bardock Saga

Baby Goku .04
Raditz 750
Nappa 6,500
Bardock 9,500
Baby Broly 10,000
King Vegeta 12,000
Prince Vegeta 12,500
Dodoria 20,000
Zarbon 22,000
Freeza 530,000




Goku Saga



Pterodactyl .4
Bear Bandit .5
Kuririn .6
Yamcha .9
Goku 1
Ox King 1.5
Roshi 2.5
Roshi ( Buff ) 5
Goku ( Oozaru ) 10


21st Tenkaichi Budokai

Orin Temple Bully .7
Yamcha 1.2
Giran 1.5
Kuririn 2
Goku ( w/o tail ) 2.2
Namu 2.4
Jackie Chun 2.5
Goku ( w/ tail ) 2.6
Jackie Chun ( Buff ) 5
Goku ( Oozaru ) 26


Red Ribbon Army Saga


Colonel Silver 1.4
Ninja Murasaki 1.8
Kuririn 2
Sergeant Metallic 2.2
Bora 2.3
Pirate Robot 2.4
General Blue 2.5
Goku 2.7
Goku ( Zenkai ) 3
Android8 3.5
Black 3.8
Tao Pai Pai 5
Black ( Battle Jacket ) 5.2
Goku ( Korin Trained ) 6
Korin 14


Urania Baba Saga

Dracula Man .8
Invisible Man 1
Yamcha 1.2
Kuririn 2
Mummy 2.8
Devil Man 4
Gohan 5.8
Goku 6

22nd Tenkaichi Budokai


King Chappa 7
Chaozu 7.5
Yamcha 7.7
Kuririn 8
Tsuru 9
Jackie Chun 11.5
Tenshinhan 12
Goku 12.5


King Piccolo Saga


Cymbal 5.5
Kuririn 8
Tambourine 11
Tenshinhan 12
Yajirobe 13
Goku 13.5
Korin 14
Goku ( Zenkai ) 15
Drum 16
Roshi ( Young ) 17.5
Tsuru ( Young ) 18
Mutaito 20
Piccolo ( Old ) 55
Piccolo ( Young ) 87.5
Goku ( Super Sacred Water ) 90
Goku ( Zenkai ) 100
Mr. Popo 200
Kami 300



23rd Tenkaichi Budokai


Chi Chi 40
Chaozu 60
Yajirobe 70
Android Tao 80
Yamcha 92
Kuririn 95
Goku ( Weighted Speed ) 100
Goku ( Weighted Power ) 120
Tenshinhan 120
Shen 250
Kami 300
Piccolo 440
Goku 450
Goku ( Zenkai ) 500


Saiyan Saga


Farmer .1
Roshi 11.5
Chi Chi 40
Yajirobe 75
Chaozu 100
Yamcha 120
Kuririn 125
Tenshinhan 160
Piccolo ( Weighted ) 520
Goku ( Weighted ) 530
Piccolo 650
Goku 660
Gohan ( Enraged ) 750
Raditz 1,250
Gohan ( Enraged 2 ) 1,500
King Yemma 2,500
King Kai 3,500


Saiyan Saga Part 2


Chaozu 600
Yajirobe 800
Gohan 1,000
Saibamen 1,200
Yamcha 1,300
Kuririn 1,400
Tenshinhan 1,600
Piccolo 2,000
Nappa 8,000
Goku 8,000
Goku ( Kkx2 ) 16,000
Vegeta 18,000
Goku ( Kkx3 ) 24,000
Goku ( Kkx4 ) 32,000
Vegeta ( Oozaru ) 180,000



Namek Saga


Freeza Scouts 1,000
Gohan 1,500
Kuririn ( Weighted ) 1,500
Kuririn 1,750
Freeza Soldiers 2,000
Namekian Farmers 3,000
Cui 18,000
Dodoria 20,000
Zarbon 22,000
Vegeta 24,000
Zarbon ( Transformed ) 28,500
Vegeta ( Zenkai ) 30,000


Ginyu Saga


Gurd 5,000
Kuririn 12,000
Gohan 14,000
Vegeta 30,000
Reecome 40,000
Burter 40,000
Jeice 40,000
Nail 42,000
Vegeta ( Zenkai ) 50,000
Goku 90,000
Ginyu 120,000
Goku ( Kkx2 ) 180,000


Ginyu Saga Part 2

GokuGinyu 23,000
Kuririn 24,000
Gohan 28,000
Jeice 40,000
Vegeta 50,000



Freeza Saga


Kuririn 200,000
Gohan 250,000
Piccolo 300,000
Vegeta 500,000
Freeza 530,000
Piccolo ( Fused , w/ Kami , Unseen ) 600,000
Gohan ( Enraged ) 1,000,000
Gohan ( Zenkai ) 1,000,000
Freeza ( 2nd Form, Initial ) 1,060,000
Freeza ( 2nd Form, Powered Up ) 1,200,000
Piccolo ( Fused w/ Nail , Weighted ) 1,250,000
Freeza ( 2nd Form FP ) 1,400,000
Piccolo ( Fused w/ Nail , w/o weights ) 1,500,000
Gohan ( Enraged , Post Zenkai ) 1,750,000
Freeza ( 3rd Form ) 2,000,000
Vegeta ( Zenkai ) 3,000,000
Freeza ( True Form , Initial ) 3,000,000
Goku 5,000,000
Freeza ( True Form , Actual ) 5,500,000
Goku ( Kkx10 ) 50,000,000
Goku ( Kkx20 ) 100,000,000
Freeza ( 50% ) 120,000,000
Freeza ( 70% ) 168,000,000
Freeza ( 100% ) 240,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan ) 250,000,000




Cooler Saga


Kuririn 200,000
Gohan 1,000,000
Neiz 1,500,000
Doore 1,750,000
Salza 2,250,000
Piccolo 3,000,000
Goku 10,000,000
Goku ( Kkx10 ) 100,000,000
Goku ( Kkx20 ) 200,000,000
Cooler 200,000,000
Cooler ( Transformed ) 350,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan ) 500,000,000




Trunks Saga


Chaozu 50,000
Yamcha 120,000
Tenshinhan 150,000
Kuririn 200,000
Gohan 900,000
Piccolo 5,000,000
Vegeta 6,000,000
Trunks 8,000,000
Goku 10,000,000
King Cold 175,000,000
Mecha Freeza ( Suppressed ) 180,000,000
Mechs Freeza ( FP ) 275,000,000
Trunks ( Super Saiyan ) 400,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan ) 500,000,000



Cooler Saga Part 2

Vegeta 14,000,000
Goku 15,000,000
Goku ( Kkx10 ) 150,000,000
Goku ( Kkx20 ) 300,000,000
Vegeta ( Super Saiyan ) 700,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan ) 750,000,000
Metal Cooler 850,000,000
Metal Cooler ( Regenerated ) 1,000,000,000





Super Android 13 Saga


Trunks 17,000,000
Vegeta 19,000,000
Goku 20,000,000
Android 14 850,000,000
Trunks ( Super Saiyan ) 850,000,000
Android 15 950,000,000
Vegeta ( Super Saiyan ) 950,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan ) 1,000,000,000
Android 13 1,200,000,000
Piccolo ( Fused w/ Kami ) 1,500,000,000
Super Android 13 3,000,000,000





Androids Saga

Chaozu 1,000,000
Yamcha 8,500,000
Kuririn 10,000,000
Tenshinhan 11,000,000
Gohan 12,000,000
Piccolo ( Suppressed ) 15,000,000
Trunks 17,000,000
Goku 19,000,000
Vegeta 20,000,000
Android 19 250,000,000
Android 20 300,000,000
Android 19 ( Post Absorbtion ) 500,000,000
Android 20 ( Post Absorbtion ) 600,000,000
Piccolo ( FP ) 750,000,000
Trunks ( Super Saiyan ) 850,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan ) 950,000,000
Vegeta 1,000,000,000
Imperfect Cell 1,200,000,000
Piccolo ( Fused w/ Kami , Weighted ) 1,350,000,000
Android 18 1,400,000,000
Android 17 1,500,000,000
Piccolo ( Fused w/ Kami , FP ) 1,500,000,000
Android 16 3,500,000,000
Imperfect Cell ( Post Absorbtions ) 3,600,000,000
Semi Cell 10,000,000,000




Room of Spirit and Time Saga


Goku 40,000,000
Trunks 180,000,000
Vegeta 200,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan ) 2,000,000,000
Goku ( Ultra Super Saiyan ) 5,000,000,000
Trunks ( Super Saiyan ) 9,000,000,000
Vegeta ( Super Saiyan ) 10,000,000,000
Semi Cell ( Initial ) 10,000,000,000
Semi Cell ( FP ) 12,500,000,000
Goku ( Ussj Grade 2 ) 15,000,000,000
Perfect Cell ( Initial ) 20,000,000,000
Trunks ( Ultra Super Saiyan ) 22,500,000,000
Vegeta ( Ultra Super Saiyan ) 25,000,000,000
Perfect Cell ( Actual ) 55,000,000,000
Trunks ( Ussj Grade 2 ) 67,500,000,000
Perfect Cell ( Buff ) 75,000,000,000


Broly Saga

Gohan 1,300,000,000
Trunks 1,350,000,000
Vegeta 1,400,000,000
Goku 2,000,000,000
Broly 2,500,000,000
Piccolo 40,000,000,000
Gohan ( Super Saiyan ) 65,000,000,000
Trunks ( Super Saiyan ) 67,500,000,000
Vegeta ( Super Saiyan ) 70,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan ) 100,000,000,000
Broly ( Super Saiyan ) 125,000,000,000
Broly ( Legendary Super Saiyan ) 500,000,000,000



Hatchyak Saga


Gohan 1,300,000,000
Trunks 1,350,000,000
Vegeta 1,400,000,000
Goku 2,000,000,000
Piccolo 40,000,000,000
Gohan ( Super Saiyan ) 65,000,000,000
Trunks ( Super Saiyan ) 67,500,000,000
Vegeta ( Super Saiyan ) 70,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan ) 100,000,000,000
Hatchyak 600,000,000,000






Cell Game


Trunks 1,350,000,000
Vegeta 1,400,000,000
Goku 2,000,000,000
Gohan 2,700,000,000
Android 16 3,000,000,000
Piccolo 40,000,000,000
Goku ( 50% Super Saiyan ) 50,000,000,000
Perfect Cell ( Suppressed ) 55,000,000,000
Trunks ( Super Saiyan ) 67,500,000,000
Vegeta ( Super Saiyan ) 70,000,000,000
Cell Juniors 75,000,000,000
Goku ( FP Super Saiyan ) 100,000,000,000
Cell ( Powered Up ) 110,000,000,000
Cell ( Further Powered Up ) 130,000,000,000
Gohan ( Super Saiyan ) 135,000,000,000
Perfect Cell ( FP ) 300,000,000,000
Perfect Cell ( Buff ) 500,000,000,000
Super Perfect Cell 650,000,000,000
Gohan ( Super Saiyan 2 ) 675,000,000,000





Bojack Saga

Trunks 1,350,000,000
Vegeta 1,400,000,000
Gohan 2,700,000,000
Piccolo 40,000,000,000
Trunks ( Super Saiyan ) 67,500,000,000
Vegeta ( Super Saiyan ) 70,000,000,000
Bojack 125,000,000,000
Gohan ( Super Saiyan ) 135,000,000,000
Bojack ( Transformed ) 250,000,000,000
Gohan ( Super Saiyan 2 ) 675,000,000,000


Otherworld Tournament



Reecome 50,000,000,000
Burter 50,000,000,000
Jeice 50,000,000,000
King Cold 150,000,000,000
Freeza ( Suppressed ) 175,000,000,000
Olibu 1,500,000,000,000
Pikkon ( Weighted ) 1,750,000,000,000
Goku 2,000,000,000,000
Cell ( Suppressed ) 55,000,000,000,000
Pikkon ( Weighted , Blazing Shot ) 80,000,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan ) 100,000,000,000,000
Pikkon ( FP ) 110,000,000,000,000



Broly Saga Part 2

Goten 1,200,000,000
Trunks 1,250,000,000
Gohan 2,700,000,000
Goku 3,200,000,000
Broly 6,000,000,000
Goten ( Super Saiyan ) 60,000,000,000
Trunks ( Super Saiyan ) 62,500,000,000
Gohan ( Super Saiyan ) 135,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan ) 160,000,000,000
Broly ( Super Saiyan ) 300,000,000,000
Gohan ( Super Saiyan 2 ) 675,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan 2 ) 800,000,000,000
Broly ( Legendary Super Saiyan ) 1,200,000,000,000




25th Tenkaichi Budokai



Hercule .20
Videl .25
Spopovich ( Majin ) .27
Yamu ( Majin ) .28
Yamcha 8,500,000
Kuririn 10,000,000
Goten 1,200,000,000
Trunks 1,250,000,000
Android 18 1,400,000,000
Gohan 1,800,000,000
Goten ( Ssj, Suppressed ) 12,000,000,000
Trunks ( Ssj, Suppressed ) 12,500,000,000
Piccolo 40,000,000,000
Gohan ( Super Saiyan ) 90,000,000,000
Gohan ( Super Saiyan 2 ) 450,000,000,000
Kaioshin ( Psychic Power ) 500,000,000,000



Fat Buu Saga


Kibito 100,000,000
Kaioshin 1,000,000,000
Goten 1,200,000,000
Trunks 1,250,000,000
Pui Pui 1,500,000,000
Badibi's Stage 2 Fighter ( Unseen ) 1,750,000,000
Gohan 1,800,000,000
Badibi's Stage 3 Fighter ( Unseen ) 2,000,000,000
Vegeta 2,400,000,000
Yakkon 3,000,000,000
Goku 3,200,000,000
Vegeta ( Majin ) 3,200,000,000
Goten ( Super Saiyan ) 60,000,000,000
Trunks ( Super Saiyan ) 62,500,000,000
Gotenks 90,000,000,000
Gohan ( Super Saiyan ) 90,000,000,000
Dabura ( Majin ) 95,000,000,000
Vegeta ( Super Saiyan ) 120,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan ) 160,000,000,000
Vegeta ( Ssj, Majin ) 160,000,000,000
Fat Buu ( Initial ) 350,000,000,000
Kaioshin ( Psychic Power ) 500,000,000,000
Vegeta ( Super Saiyan 2 ) 600,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan 2 ) 800,000,000,000
Vegeta ( Ssj2, Majin ) 800,000,000,000
Fat Buu ( Power Up 1 ) 1,000,000,000,000
Fat Buu ( Power Up2 ) 1,500,000,000,000
Fat Buu ( FP ) 3,000,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan 3 ) 4,000,000,000,000
Gotenks ( Super Saiyan ) 4,500,000,000,000



Janemba Saga



Vegeta 3,200,000,000
Goku 4,000,000,000
Gotenks 90,000,000,000
Vegeta ( Super Saiyan ) 160,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan ) 200,000,000,000
Gogeta 240,000,000,000
Vegeta ( Super Saiyan 2 ) 800,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan 2 ) 1,000,000,000,000
Fat Janemba 3,500,000,000,000
Gotenks ( Super Saiyan ) 4,500,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan 3 ) 5,000,000,000,000
Super Janemba ( Initial ) 6,000,000,000,000
Super Janemba ( FP ) 8,000,000,000,000
Gogeta ( Super Saiyan ) 12,000,000,000,000
Gogeta ( Ssj2 , Unseen ) 60,000,000,000,000
Gogeta ( Ssj3, Unseen ) 300,000,000,000,000




Fusion Saga



Tenshinhan 15,000,000
Goten ( Post Rosat ) 1,600,000,000
Trunks ( Post Rosat ) 1,650,000,000
Gohan ( Post Z Sword Training ) 10,000,000,000
Goten ( Super Saiyan ) 80,000,000,000
Trunks ( Super Saiyan ) 82,500,000,000
KibitoKai 100,000,000,000
Gotenks 120,000,000,000
Gohan ( Ssj, Unseen ) 500,000,000,000
Good Buu 1,200,000,000,000
Evil Buu 1,800,000,000,000
Gohan ( Ssj 2, Unseen ) 2,500,000,000,000
Fat Buu 3,000,000,000,000
Gotenks ( Super Saiyan ) 6,000,000,000,000
Vegetto 20,000,000,000,000
Gotenks ( Super Saiyan 2 ) 30,000,000,000,000
Super Buu 135,000,000,000,000
Buucolo 135,043,250,000,000
Gotenks ( Super Saiyan 3 ) 150,000,000,000,000
Buff Buu 175,000,000,000,000
Gohan ( Ultimate ) 200,000,000,000,000
Buutenks 285,040,000,000,000
Buuhan 335,043,250,000,000
Gokan ( Unseen ) 400,000,000,000,000
Vegetto ( Super Saiyan ) 1,000,000,000,000,000
Vegetto ( Ssj2, Unseen ) 5,000,000,000,000,000
Gokan ( Ssj, Unseen ) 20,000,000,000,000,000
Vegetto ( Ssj3, Unseen ) 25,000,000,000,000,000
Gokan ( Ssj2, Unseen ) 100,000,000,000,000,000
Gokan ( Ssj3, Unseen ) 500,000,000,000,000,000



Kid Buu Saga


Vegeta 3,200,000,000
Goku 3,200,000,000
KibitoKai 100,000,000,000
Vegeta ( Super Saiyan ) 160,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan ) 160,000,000,000
Vegeta ( Super Saiyan 2 ) 800,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan 2 ) 800,000,000,000
Kid Buu 4,000,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan 3 ) 4,000,000,000,000
Gohan ( Ultimate ) 200,000,000,000,000



28th Tenkaichi Budokai


Goten 1,000,000,000
Trunks. 1,050,000,000
Vegeta 12,000,000,000
Goku 14,000,000,000
Uub 15,000,000,000
Uub ( Enraged ) 30,000,000,000
Piccolo 40,000,000,000
Goten ( Super Saiyan ) 50,000,000,000
Trunks ( Super Saiyan ) 52,500,000,000
Vegeta ( Super Saiyan ) 600,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan ) 700,000,000,000
Mr. Buu 1,200,000,000,000
Vegeta ( Super Saiyan 2 ) 3,000,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan 2 ) 3,500,000,000,000
Vegeta ( Super Saiyan 3 ) 15,000,000,000,000
Goku ( Super Saiyan 3 ) 17,500,000,000,000
Gohan ( Ultimate ) 200,000,000,000,000

[RandomGuy96]

I notice you ignore not only guidebooks, but power levels and strength relations that are stated or shown in the manga.

[Mjb1985]

Yep. I use majority of the scouter numbers as a baseline and adjust everything around it. My chart doesn't have any influence from any guidebook and is really based more on a character statement / fight analyzation stand point.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Yeah... Why did you decide to ignore all these official numbers? Also, how the hell is Yamcha weaker than the farmer with a shotgun, his power level was stated to be 5 in the manga. These levels are also needlessly high.

[Mjb1985]

I had to change the Farmer's level from his usual 5. In my scale I have the farmer at only .1

As I mentioned before I used the baseline for the scouter system and changed what I needed to make the Dragonball power statements work. This chart is a what if you took the power statements and fights seriously as opposed to just using the official numbers. I've seen some pure DB charts here that weren't based on official numbers so this is like that but with the inclusion of everything else as well. Kind of mixing and matching here.

One of the big reasons I wanted to try was the whole Piccolo Daimao wasn't using half his power against 22nd Budokai Goku. If you take that literally on a ki scale , it makes working with the Raditz Saga numbers really hard to fit with early DB.

So I figured hey let's have some fun and mess around, just a silly little fan made power level chart I wanted to play around with on my off time.

A couple of key notes. Just for reference for this topic.


Raditz 1,250
Piccolo Daimao 87.5
Initial Goku 1
Farmer .1

So I wanted to widen the scale between DB characters .

[TheMightyOzaru]

The farmer with a shotgun still reads 5 off Raditz's scouter... your levels don't only ignore the Guidebooks but the manga as well. Besides low decimals are completely unnecessary. My levels work just fine without them. Yeah people may have ignored official numbers here but that doesn't mean you should do it and besides very few people take lists that ignore official numbers seriously. I for instance chuckle every time I see Vegito1089's list.

[Mjb1985]

By all means man chuckle all you want. It's just a power level list . It's not meant to be taken so seriously dude.

And yes I changed not only the guidebook numbers but any manga number that couldn't fit in with my scale. It's only loosely based off of manga scouter numbers.

[Kamiccolo9]

Well, here's mine, up through Dragonball. Someday I'll get around to posting the rest of the series. Maybe. I've tried to offer justification for each of these numbers, and I feel I've done a pretty good job. When applicable, I've gone with the official numbers, unless I feel that they just don't work in the context of the series.
My Power Levels List
A. Pre-Dragonball
1. Freeza-530,000. His given power in the Namek Arc. I’m just going to assume that it is the same here.
2. Bardock-Around 10,000. Said to be approaching the strength of King Vegeta.
3. King Vegeta-Around 12,000.
4. Goku (Baby)-2. His given power level in Movie 8.
5. Broly (Baby)-10,000. His given power level in Movie 8. Extreme power is due to his status as a “mutant” Saiyan.
6. Chilled-265,000. I have him as half as strong as Freeza. I consider Chilled to be a member of their race before it mutated into the vastly stronger Freeza family we see in the series.
7. Bardock (Super Saiyan)-500,000. 50x his base. Could be higher due to a potential zenkai, but it doesn’t really matter.
B. Pilaf Arc
1. Goku-10. While Goku’s feats indicate that he is far more than twice as strong as an average Earthling, it must be remembered that the largest portion of Battle Power is composed of ki. Goku has not developed his ki at this point, so his Battle Power is based off his physical attributes, such as strength, speed, durability, etc.
2. Bulma-2. With the average Earthling power being 5 , I feel that this is as good a place as any to place a teenage girl with no intensive regular exercise or martial arts training.
3. Pterodactyl-6. Stronger than the average human, due to its size and its ability to lift and fly away with Bulma like she weighed nothing. Still far weaker than Goku.
4. Turtle-.001. Power Level shown in Dragonball Z, and there is no reason to assume he is any stronger or weaker here.
5. Bear Thief-7. Stronger than the Pterodactyl purely based on size. Much stronger than the average human, but still weaker than Goku.
6. Master Roshi-139. Battle Power given for the 22nd Budokai, and he is not shown training, so there is no reason to assume it’s any different here. Also, note that his Battle Power is leagues above the rest in this arc, due to his ability to utilize ki, which has a much greater effect on Battle Power than physical attributes.
7. Oolong-1. Able to be manhandled by Bulma.
8. Yamcha-9. Able to put up a good fight against Goku, but is ultimately no match for him.
9. Chi-Chi-3. Shown to be strong, but kills the dinosaur with hear helmet, not her strength. Still much stronger than the average Earthling girl.
10. Gyumao-50. Pure guess. I’m assuming he’s retained at least some of the skills he learned with Master Roshi.
11. Master Roshi (Max Power)-180. Roshi buffs up to unleash his full power. He does this twice, both times to fire off his Kamehameha.
12. Rabbit Gang Members-5 each. No reason to assume that they are anything more than average.
13. Carrot Master-5. His power comes from his touch, no reason to assume he’s anything special.
14. Pilaf-1. Basing purely off size.
15. Shu-2. Same as above. Making him stronger than Pilaf just because.
16. Mai-3. Same.
17. Goku (Oozaru)-100. 10x his base. However, it should be noted that, unlike every other Oozaru seen, Goku doesn’t demonstrate ki control while transformed. This may limit his power somewhat, however, his potential power should still be 10x his base.

C. 21st Budokai Arc
1. Goku (Pre Training)-10. No reason to assume it’s gotten any higher at this point. He hasn’t trained, and he’s suffered no wounds great enough to warrant a zenkai.
2. Goku (Post Training)-140. I place him a point higher than Master Roshi purely because it looks to me like he took less damage from their Kamehameha duel. It could easily be slightly higher or lower, as long as they are around the same.
3. Goku (Oozaru)-1,400. 10x base.
4. Master Roshi-139. Same as in the previous arc.
5. Master Roshi (Max Power)-180. Same as before. Note that this is the first time a celestial body, in this case the Moon, has been destroyed.
6. Krillin (Pre Training)-9. Shown to be almost on the same level as Goku.
7. Krillin (Post Training)-120. Able to put up a fight against his master, but is easily overcome once Roshi starts taking the fight seriously.
8. Monk that Krillin used to Train With-7. Presumably skilled, but nothing compared to Krillin.
9. Yamcha-60. Extremely exceptional for an Earthling, but has not undergone the training that Goku and Krillin have, preventing him from reaching their level.
10. Bacterian-10. Really strong for an Earthling, but not nearly on the same level as Krillin.
11. Namu-90. Weaker than Goku, but was skilled enough to last a while, and his strongest attack briefly stunned him.
12. Ran-Fan-7. Really strong for an Earthling, but nowhere near superhuman. Her placement in the Budokai quarterfinals is due more to her “tactics” than strength.
13. Giran-60. Strong, but no match for Goku.
D. Red Ribbon Army Arc
1. Goku (Pre-Sacred Water)-140. Same as previous arc.
2. Goku (Post-Sacred Water)-170. Strong enough to overcome Tao Pai Pai, but leaving enough room to obtain his level by the next Budokai.
3. Colonel Silver-60. I like his anime depiction, so I’m putting him here. Good for an Earthling, fodder for Goku.
4. Sergeant Metallic-140. I think he’s roughly equal to Goku in strength, greater durability, and less speed. He would have beaten Goku though, due to his extreme resilience.
5. Ninja Murasaki-60. Good for an Earthling, Goku can still stomp.
6. Android 8-150. Implied to be stronger than Sergeant Metallic, who I have even with Goku.
7. Buyon-100. Not shown to be very strong, so I’m basing this off his size. Extreme resilience bumps him up some too.
8. General White-40. Tough Earthling.
9. Krillin-125. A little stronger due to extra training.
10. General Blue-130. Roughly even with Krillin, but probably slightly stronger.
11. Pirate Robot-125. Said to be “pretty strong” by Goku.
12. Tao Pai Pai-150-Strong enough to easily beat Goku before drinking the water, yet still weak enough to be defeated easily afterwards.
13. Karin-190. Number in weekly jump. I see no reason for it not to work.
14. Bora-100. Extremely strong for an Earthling. Can shrug off gunfire.
15. Staff Officer Black-70. Says he’s tougher than the “others,” who I take to mean the other Red Ribbon Army Officers. Still gets crushed by Goku.
16. Battle Jacket- 160. Gives Goku a decent fight.
E. Uranai Baba Arc
1. Goku-170. Same as previous arc.
2. Krillin-125. Same.
3. Yamcha-75. Somewhat stronger than at the Budokai. Still not on the same level as Goku and Krillin.
4. Dracula Man-110. I think that Krillin was stronger, but was caught off guard by Dracula Man draining his blood.
5. Invisible Man-60. Higher ranked than Dracula Man due to his invisibility rather than his strength.
6. Mummy-130. Much stronger than Yamcha, but easily defeated by Goku.
7. Akkuman-150. Weaker than Goku, but Baba’s second strongest fighter.
8. Grandpa Gohan-165. Almost equal with Goku, but Goku had the advantage until Gohan grabbed his tail. Baba’s strongest fighter.
F. 22nd Budokai Arc
1. Goku-180. Battle Power given in the Daizenshuu.
2. Tenshinhan-180. Equal with Goku, and number was given in the Daizenshuu.
3. Master Roshi-175. Able to fight almost evenly with Tenshinhan.
4. Master Shen-120. Number given in the Daizenshuu. Roshi easily blasts him away. Implied to be stronger than Chiaotzu.
5. Krillin-140. Stronger after training, and more experience with Master Roshi’s training allows him to keep ahead of Yamcha.
6. Yamcha-130. After training with Master Roshi, Yamcha has improved immensely, and can now employ ki based attacks.
7. Chiaotzu-110. The weakest of the Turtle and Crane students, but still formidable due to his psychic powers.
8. King Chappa-120. Former Champion. Master Roshi thought he’d be a tough opponent for Goku.
G. Piccolo Daimao Arc
1. Goku (Tired)-150. The actual number doesn’t really matter, as long as he’s below Tambourine.
2. Goku (Pre Divine Water)-180. Same as previous arc.
3. Goku (Post Divine Water)-260. Equal to Young Piccolo Daimao. Number given in the Daizenshuu.
4. Goku (Punch that Kills Piccolo)-2,600. I like to think that his rage brings out his dormant Oozaru power for this attack, and this is what allows him to kill the equally powerful Piccolo Daimao with 3 broken limbs.
5. Old Piccolo Daimao-220. I just took the Daizenshuu’s number for Kami and applied it here.
6. Young Piccolo Daimao-260. From the Daizenshuu. Equal to Goku.
7. Tenshinhan (Pre Training) 180-Same as previous arc.
8. Tenshinhan (Post Training) 185. Slightly stronger, but his training was focused more on mastering the Mafuba.
9. Tambourine-170. Strong enough to kill the Budokai fighters, and defeat a tired Goku.
10. Yajorobe-160. Able to competently fight rested 23rd Budokai Goku, and kill Cymbol. I feel that Tambourine would be beyond him though.
11. Cymbol-150. While Tambourine was created to kill the Budokai participants, Cymbol’s purpose was to find Dragonballs. Therefore, I have him weaker than Tambourine.
12. Drum-210. I have him almost as strong as Old Piccolo Daimao, as a testament to how much stronger the Younger Piccolo became; he could create new demons far superior to the old ones.
13. Mr. Popo-270. Able to outclass Goku due to superior skills and the ability to sense ki.
14. Kami-300. He is stronger than Piccolo Daimao and Mr. Popo.
H. Piccolo Jr. Arc
1. Goku (Weighted)-260. His clothes are so heavy that he is about equal to his child self while weighted down. His speed is especially affected.
2. Goku-350. Goku is much stronger after his training with Mr. Popo, and he can utilize his ki far more effectively.
3. Piccolo Jr. (Suppressed)-260. Goes easy on Krillin at first. I just gave him his father’s Battle Power.
4. Piccolo Jr.-350. Roughly equal to Goku.
5. Piccolo Jr. (Giant)-350. I see this “transformation” as not raising his ki any. His mass and weight increase, which make his blows stronger, but his Battle Power is unaffected.
6. Krillin-220. Climbing Karin’s Tower and other training has made him much stronger, allowing him to surpass Master Roshi, but still no match for Goku or Piccolo.
7. Tienshinhan-250. Able to fight almost equally with weighted Goku, but still holds child Goku in high regard, so I have him slightly weaker, as shown by his panting after their initial exchange. However, his speed is capable of surpassing weighted Goku’s.
8. Chiaotzu-140. Still by far the weakest of the students.
9. Cyborg Tao Pai Pai-210. Number from Weekly Jump. Why not?
10. Chi-Chi-137. Number given in V-Jump. Judging from her condition after fighting Goku’s compared to Chappa’s, I can see this working.
11. Hero (Kami)-280. Weaker than he would be using his own body, but still formidable
12. Yamcha-180. Additional training has made him much stronger.

[Mjb1985]

Nice list man. I do think that there should be quite a difference between Initial Roshi , Jackie Chun at the 21st Budokai and Roshi , Jackie Chun 22nd Budokai and beyond. If going by power statements at least.

I believe Jackie used his full power to fight Goku at the 21st Budokai. Lets take a look at some of the shown power statements and implications.

Goku 22nd ~ Roshi 22nd > King Chappa > Goku ( Post Karin Training ) ~ Gohan > Tao Pai Pai > Devil Man > Mummy > Goku 21st Budokai ~ Jackie Chun 21st Budokai

As you can see , it's quite possible for there to be a tremendous difference between Jackie Chun at the 21st and 22nd. Jackie also admits that he had been training in secret for his battle at the 22nd.

Roshi also goes on to admit that not even his younger self with the inclusion of Mutaito and Tsuru could do anything to Piccolo Daimao. I take that to mean that Young Roshi would be superior to even the level he displayed at the 22nd.

So I personally would go with


Young Roshi > 22nd Budokai Roshi > 21st Budokai Roshi


There are always other ways to go about this , but that's just how I view the Roshi stuff , which is something I actually enjoy talking about. If you look at my list you can see the wide differences I use for all three versions.


Also I believe you wrote the 22nd Budokai where it should be the 21st Budokai.

Regarding Kuririn and Goku Pre training , I don't thin Kuririn should be that close. You have Kuririn at 9 and Goku at 10. I feel that's a spot better reserved for Yamcha. Kuririn was easily handled by Goku during their little skirmish when they were fighting over the rock. I think there should be quite a wide gap between Kuririn and Goku.

[Kamiccolo9]

I actually mislabelled the Budokais; fixed now.