Buu Saga Info

[Hitiro]

Even still though, he's estimating, and nothing more. Goku's never seen the fusion of those two, so he can't say that he knows from first hand experience that the fusion will match Buu in power. Thus, he's simply predicting that since it made two shrimps ridiculously more powerful, that it would make two already ridiculously powerful kids even more ridiculously powerful. Buu is also ridiculously powerful. Who knows, maybe the fusion between these two ridiculously powerful brats might be just ridiculously powerful enough to beat Buu's ridiculous power.

And yes, he sounds certain when talking to Chichi, but this also Chichi we're talking about. You want to sound as certain as possible just to shut her up.

Goku has seen the Metamoran's have probably demonstrated the fusion technique a 1,000 times over in front of Goku. I think Goku would know what kind of level Gotenks would be at even before the fusion. If Goku has seen it used multiple times and he knows the two individuals battle powers before fusing and then the battle power they have after fusing then Goku could easily work out: "Ah! So the fusion does (X BP + Y BP) * FusionMultiplier!"

[Undertaker]

Base Gotenks < SSJ2 Vegeta and Goku (which is why Piccolo advised against him fighting Buu like this)


FYI Goku attempted to fight Gotenks Buu before the GrandKai stopped him, and powered up to SSJ3 to defend himself against Buu's attacks.

Amuro Ray wrote:
Later proven wrong. Kidbuu > SuperBuu. Goku fights him solo in SSJ3 in the realm of the Kais.

Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P9.7
Context: Goku says he’s almost out of time for staying on Earth, and Piccolo says he should have more
Goku: “It’s that ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing from before…It’s a technique you should only use in the afterlife…In this world, where time exists, it uses too much energy, and you get completely exhausted all at once…”

Chapter: 477 (DBZ 283), P1.4
Context: Goku looks really tired
Piccolo: “So becoming this ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing in the lower world uses up that much ki power?...”I don't see what this proves. All this shows is that in the realm of the living Goku can't maintain the form as he is dead. He has the same problem when he's on the Kai planet when he, himself, is alive.

Again, The quote specifically point out the realm in which Goku is in, weakens the transformation.

___________________

Gotenks in any form isn't stronger than Goku.

Stop ignoring evidence, kakashi. SSJ Gotenks > Fat Buu is stated.

No one is awestruck by Gotenks power, including Piccolo. This is why he asked to test Gotenks speed, everything Gotenks says/does is overexaggerated and really can't be used as proof.

He questioned for his speed and not power because he was strong enough to beat Buu.

If he's on Goku's level or above, he wouldn't have questioned him at all. He's unproven, which is why Piccolo ask to test him - how else would he (gotenks) demonstate his power, by sparring with someone else much weaker than himself?(Piccolo)

You are repeating what I addressed. He said his ki is incredible but asked for his speed. He can't know how fast he was. Later, he just complains about the time line meaning Gotenks is strong enough.

[BejitaSama]

It's never stated that Gotenks SSJ > Fat Buu, please. It's just your interpretation, and if you can't see that, i'm really sorry. The only facts that we are sure are :

Kid Buu >(>) Fat Buu
Super Buu >= Fat Buu
Gohan >> Super Buu
Gotenks SSJ3 >= Super Buu
Gotenks SSJ1 << Super Buu
Goku SSJ3 >= Kid Buu
Goku SSJ3 >(>) Fat Buu

Don't try to transform interpretations in facts.

[Hitiro]

And I think Kid Buu is superior to Super Buu, because he's the only one really stated to be more powerful than Fat Buu.

This is incorrect, Evil Boo(Super Boo) was stated to be more powerful than Fat Boo in every way.

Chapter: 487 (DBZ 293), P13.5
Context: as Piccolo plans on having Goten and Trunks train in the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “Can’t you tell…?! As they are now, even if they perform Fusion they can’t win, no doubt about it…! Tell them that if they don’t want to die while they’re still just little brats, then they should train as much as they can…!”

Here Piccolo, who was going to use Pre-RoSaT Gotenks against Boo, is saying that their strength now just won't be able to cut it and they would be killed. This is in stark contrast to earlier as Piccolo made no comment of that sort when Boo was just Fat Boo. Its clear that the fusion Pre-RoSaT had at least some chance of beating Fat Boo but now that Boo is Evil Boo the fusion Pre-RoSaT doesn't stand a chance.

Chapter: 488 (DBZ 294), P5.5-6
Trunks: “Huh!? That’s Majin Boo!?”
Goten: “He-he really has changed…”
Piccolo: “It’s not just his appearance…Everything about him is definitely greater than before…”

Here Piccolo clearly states that Evil Boo is better than Fat Boo in every way. So no, Pure Boo(Kid Boo) isn't the only one stated to be more powerful than Fat Boo.

[Undertaker]

It's never stated that Gotenks SSJ > Fat Buu, please. It's just your interpretation, and if you can't see that, i'm really sorry. The only facts that we are sure are :

Kid Buu >(>) Fat Buu
Super Buu >= Fat Buu
Gohan >> Super Buu
Gotenks SSJ3 >= Super Buu
Gotenks SSJ1 << Super Buu
Goku SSJ3 >= Kid Buu
Goku SSJ3 >(>) Fat Buu

Don't try to transform interpretations in facts.

Chapter: 472 (DBZ 278), P9.4
Context: after explaining that Fusion lasts 30 minutes
Goku: “With these two [Goten and Trunks], if they just manage to perform Fusion successfully, I think they’ll definitely be able to defeat [Boo] within 30 minutes. Fusion is just that extreme.”

Chapter: 477 (DBZ 283), P11.8
Context: Chi-Chi thinks Goten will get killed by Boo
Goku: “Don’t worry. If he perfects the technique he’s trying now, he definitely ain’t gonna lose.”

Super Buu >>>>>> Fat Buu is stated by Piccolo

[Amuro Ray]

Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P11.1-3
Context: Goku tells Piccolo that he ‘probably’ couldn’t have defeated Boo with Super Saiyan 3
Piccolo: “…Probably? Knowing you, why didn’t you try until the very end?...Does it have to do with that energy…?”
Goku: “No… I’m no longer a human who’s particularly even supposed to be here…I shouldn’t be the one to do it. It’d be better for these young guys to solve things somehow or another…After all, some other outrageous guy might show up eventually, right? …It's a nasty gamble, but…Seeing those two super-gifted squirts, it made me want to take this gamble…”

Here Goku blatantly admits to Piccolo that this is a gamble - he's not certain these guys will absolutely win.

[Amuro Ray]

It's never stated that Gotenks SSJ > Fat Buu, please. It's just your interpretation, and if you can't see that, i'm really sorry. The only facts that we are sure are :

Kid Buu >(>) Fat Buu
Super Buu >= Fat Buu
Gohan >> Super Buu
Gotenks SSJ3 >= Super Buu
Gotenks SSJ1 << Super Buu
Goku SSJ3 >= Kid Buu
Goku SSJ3 >(>) Fat Buu

Don't try to transform interpretations in facts.

Super Buu >>>>>> Fat Buu is stated by Piccolo

No, Piccolo did state that Superbuu was stronger, but it wasn't implied to be by a substantial amount - no one else on the lookout could really sense the change.

[BejitaSama]

And I think Kid Buu is superior to Super Buu, because he's the only one really stated to be more powerful than Fat Buu.

This is incorrect, Evil Boo(Super Boo) was stated to be more powerful than Fat Boo in every way.

Chapter: 487 (DBZ 293), P13.5
Context: as Piccolo plans on having Goten and Trunks train in the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “Can’t you tell…?! As they are now, even if they perform Fusion they can’t win, no doubt about it…! Tell them that if they don’t want to die while they’re still just little brats, then they should train as much as they can…!”

Here Piccolo, who was going to use Pre-RoSaT Gotenks against Boo, is saying that their strength now just won't be able to cut it and they would be killed. This is in stark contrast to earlier as Piccolo made no comment of that sort when Boo was just Fat Boo. Its clear that the fusion Pre-RoSaT had at least some chance of beating Fat Boo but now that Boo is Evil Boo the fusion Pre-RoSaT doesn't stand a chance.

Chapter: 488 (DBZ 294), P5.5-6
Trunks: “Huh!? That’s Majin Boo!?”
Goten: “He-he really has changed…”
Piccolo: “It’s not just his appearance…Everything about him is definitely greater than before…”

Here Piccolo clearly states that Evil Boo is better than Fat Boo in every way. So no, Pure Boo(Kid Boo) isn't the only one stated to be more powerful than Fat Boo.

Yeah, but the first thing Piccolo said is that "he's pure evil, and have a better body", which don't show a big big big big gap between him and Fat Buu.
Super Buu is superior to Fat Buu but when I see that :

Super Buu >>>>>> Fat Buu is stated by Piccolo

I just want to stop the debate ! Armuro Ray is right, too.

[Amuro Ray]

Gotenks in any form isn't stronger than Goku.

Stop ignoring evidence, kakashi. SSJ Gotenks > Fat Buu is stated.

No one is awestruck by Gotenks power, including Piccolo. This is why he asked to test Gotenks speed, everything Gotenks says/does is overexaggerated and really can't be used as proof.

He questioned for his speed and not power because he was strong enough to beat Buu.

If he's on Goku's level or above, he wouldn't have questioned him at all. He's unproven, which is why Piccolo ask to test him - how else would he (gotenks) demonstate his power, by sparring with someone else much weaker than himself?(Piccolo)

When has "Speed" ever been used to demonstrate anything sort of fighting prowess in DBZ? Piccolo specifically asked for Gotenks to demonstrate his speed to sample his power - there was no one on Gotenks level to spar with to test his strength. Seriously, SS Gotenks was below Vegeta - which is why the Daizenshuu states he didn't surpass Vegeta until he left the ROSAT (and obtained SSJ3)

[Godo]

I still think that the size thing is an essential factor that we are leaving out too easily.

[Hitiro]

Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P11.1-3
Context: Goku tells Piccolo that he ‘probably’ couldn’t have defeated Boo with Super Saiyan 3
Piccolo: “…Probably? Knowing you, why didn’t you try until the very end?...Does it have to do with that energy…?”
Goku: “No… I’m no longer a human who’s particularly even supposed to be here…I shouldn’t be the one to do it. It’d be better for these young guys to solve things somehow or another…After all, some other outrageous guy might show up eventually, right? …It's a nasty gamble, but…Seeing those two super-gifted squirts, it made me want to take this gamble…”

Here Goku blatantly admits to Piccolo that this is a gamble - he's not certain these guys will absolutely win.

And who's saying the "gamble" Goku is talking about in this quote is in regard to them having the power to win? You are forgetting that these two kids are young and without any actual battle experience. They are completely different to Gohan who spent his childhood fighting and had people around to look after him like Piccolo and Kuririn. How do you know Goku doesn't mean "gamble" in the sense that he's making two kids who have never had to fight a death battle in their lives fight against a monster who will kill them outright. Its your interpretation that he's gambling on their strength rather than gambling on their frame of mind to get the job done. Do you not recall the first time Gohan was in a battle? Do you remember how Piccolo and Kuririn set him up to beat Nappa and he cried and ran away? The words "nasty gamble" seems indicative of it being cruel to send kids to fight against a monster who has no regard for life. Just like it was a "nasty gamble" to have Gohan fight against Cell, it was cruel of Goku to put a kid up against a monster by themselves just because he is the only one who could beat the monster. It was a gamble because while Gohan has the power to smash Perfect Cell about, he is still just a child. Piccolo even states this during the fight:

Chapter: 405 (DBZ 211), P12.1
Piccolo: “Don’t forget…! Even if his power is #1, he’s still a kid…!”

Again, the gamble is placing the battle in the childs hands, not the strength of the child. What Goku clearly says about what their strength would be like if they fuse is they will definitely be able to beat Boo:

Chapter: 472 (DBZ 278), P9.4
Context: after explaining that Fusion lasts 30 minutes
Goku: “With these two [Goten and Trunks], if they just manage to perform Fusion successfully, I think they’ll definitely be able to defeat [Boo] within 30 minutes. Fusion is just that extreme.”

Chapter: 477 (DBZ 283), P11.8
Context: Chi-Chi thinks Goten will get killed by Boo
Goku: “Don’t worry. If he perfects the technique he’s trying now, he definitely ain’t gonna lose.”

Seriously, SS Gotenks was below Vegeta - which is why the Daizenshuu states he didn't surpass Vegeta until he left the ROSAT (and obtained SSJ3)

Yes, the Daizenshuu states that it wasn't until Post-RoSaT that Gotenks surpassed Vegeta. But it never indicates in what context. For all we know it could have meant Base Gotenks surpassed SSJ Vegeta, or Base Gotenks surpassed SSJ2 Vegeta. Or SSJ Gotenks surpassed SSJ2 Vegeta. We are never told specifically in what area Gotenks surpassed Vegeta. In fact, the Daizenshuu may be stating that Gotenks surpassed Vegeta in getting the SSJ3 transformation before him. The Daizenshuu may not be talking about "strength" in the manner of power at all, it may be on about "strength" in terms of transformations.

[BejitaSama]

Yes, the Daizenshuu states that it wasn't until Post-RoSaT that Gotenks surpassed Vegeta. But it never indicates in what context. For all we know it could have meant Base Gotenks surpassed SSJ Vegeta, or Base Gotenks surpassed SSJ2 Vegeta. Or SSJ Gotenks surpassed SSJ2 Vegeta.

And it can be only Gotenks SSJ3 that surpassed Bejita, don't fear to say it

What Goku clearly says about what their strength would be like if they fuse is they will definitely be able to beat Boo:

Actually, and again, we don't care what should be the strength of Gotenks. What we see, is that he needs SSJ3 to face Super Buu, who is greater than Fat Buu, but not so far. Gotenks was no match for him in SSJ, and of course in base. He's overestimated by Goku, and Piccolo. For the Namek, i will add that he never understand real Buu's power. He knows that the monster is incredibly strong, but that's all. He is not able to see that Goku could win against Fat Buu, unable to see that both Gotenks base and Gotenks SSJ1 were by far inferior to Super Buu during the battle in the ROSAT, and unable to see that Gohan will beat Super Buu easily. What I want to say is that Picccolo can't compare strengths which are in a different world from him. Like in the Freeza arc, when he couldn't see that Goku was far far far away from Freeza.

[Darkprince410]

You can't say that Ssj3 Gotenks being stronger than Ssj2 Vegeta is the only context that can be taken from that statement, since there's clear evidence that Gotenks was able to surpass him well beforehand. We see rather clearly that Ssj Goten and Trunks aren't far behind Ssj Vegeta by any means, and even with the Ma-jin effect in place, the gap between Vegeta's power before and after is likely not THAT substantial. As such, it's not hard to assume by any means that a fusion between Goten and Trunks, as Super Saiya-jin, should be able to be more than twice as powerful as their individual Super Saiya-jin forms. That's the thing with a fusion between the boys; they're already so close to their dads in terms of power individually that a fusion between the two is certain to surpass them.

As for your Piccolo comments, I have to disagree.

1) With Goku's battle with Freeza, he was easily able to tell when Freeza had him outmatched (likewise, he was the only one able to tell that Vegeta was outmatched against Freeza).

2) Considering he could tell that Fat Buu wasn't using his full power at the time that Goku was fighting him, it's a fair assessment to not be sure whether or not Goku would be able to beat him.

3) He was amazed at the increase in power that Gotenks had obtained during the training, and given that his strength, in his base form, was very likely over Ssj2 Vegeta's at that point, it's hard not to be impressed. Then considering him fifty times more powerful, and you can see why he'd think that Gotenks might have a chance.

4) He was only uncertain because Gohan was still suppressing some of his power. Goten, Trunks, and Buu were also convinced that Gohan stood no chance until he flexed his battle power.

Pure Buu should, in all likelihood, be no more powerful than Pure Evil Buu was, and given that Evil Buu was significantly more powerful than Pure Evil Buu was, then he should also be significantly stronger than Pure Buu.

I point out the facts behind Goku not knowing Fat Buu's full power since it's a lynch pin for why Goku's statement about being able to beat Fat Buu is accurate, while at the same time Pure Buu being weaker than Fat Buu. It's an explanation of events that's supported by what we see in the manga, with nothing there to contradict it.

[BejitaSama]

My god... I give up ! First, I never said that :

You can't say that Ssj3 Gotenks being stronger than Ssj2 Vegeta is the only context that can be taken from that statement

I just said this option, because Hitiro mentioned all the possibilities except this !

All about your argumentation is SUBJECTIVE, the level of Trunks and Goten compared to their father, the comparison between Evil Buu and Pure Buu, nothing is stated. I could say "you don't understand, Evil Buu came up from Fat Buu's with almost of his power, so that imply that Evil Buu < Fat Buu. Or, Kid Buu is stated to be > Fat Buu, so...you can't say that Super Buu is stronger than the Kid/pure", but I'm not sure that it will be useful...

That' what I try to show here. A lot of people claim some stuffs on the Buu saga like it was official, or it's not. No, there's no proof that Gotenks SSJ3 is stronger than Goku SSJ3, no proof that Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu.

[Hitiro]

That' what I try to show here. A lot of people claim some stuffs on the Buu saga like it was official, or it's not. No, there's no proof that Gotenks SSJ3 is stronger than Goku SSJ3, no proof that Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu.

Sorry, but there is proof to argue that SSJ3 Gotenks is stronger than SSJ3 Goku and there is proof to argue Evil Boo is stronger than Pure Boo.

Chapter: 495 (DBZ 301), P6.1-3, P7.1-3
Context: after Gotenks blasts Boo with the Rapid-Fire Die-Die Missiles and Piccolo stops him
Gotenks: “Well, whatever. I already did quite a lot, after all. He should be pretty weakened.”
*Boo comes out*
Gotenks: “…He ain’t weakened…This really pisses me off!”
Piccolo: “N-no…He is weakened…I don’t know about physically, but he’s weakened a little mentally…! Th-this is the first time…that he’s fought someone strong like you…He’s feeling flustered by someone whose strength is at least on par with his own…”
Gotenks: “Dehhehheh! So in other words, Majin Boo’s freaked out, huh!? That’s right! My strength ain’t half-assed! I’m the best in the universe!”
Piccolo: “Don’t let your guard down! He’ll be coming at you frantically now…!”
Gotenks: “Dahhahhah, that’s no problem, no problem at all! That’s just what I was hoping for!”

Here Piccolo clearly points out that Boo's pride is hurt at the thought that someone's strength is at least on par with his own. From this we can assume that SSJ3 Gotenks is either:

SSJ3 Gotenks >/< Evil Boo

or

SSJ3 Gotenks > Evil Boo

As Piccolo says SSJ3 Gotenks is at least on par with him. Next, we have Goku say this:

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”
Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”

Goku clearly states that even though they've reverted Boohan back to Evil Boo, they are still too weak to fight him. This clearly points out that:

SSJ3 Gotenks >/< Evil Boo > SSJ3 Goku

Therefore SSJ3 Gotenks is more powerful than SSJ3 Goku. Then we have Goku say this:

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.1-6
Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”
Goku: “Ye…yeah…I’ve been thinking of doing that as well since awhile back, but…I haven’t gotten the chance.”
Vegeta: “Eh?”
Goku: “If I want to wipe him out, I gotta gather ki for about one minute.”
Vegeta: “One minute?!”
Goku: “Dammnit~~~If it was with the Potara, I could have done it in one blast. …..Cheh~~~I guess I went and showed off too much. But I thought things would go a little better than this…!”
Vegeta: “…S …So you weren’t thinking of me…”

Goku clearly states he could defeat Pure Boo if he can gather his ki for about one minute. This clearly indicates that SSJ3 Goku can beat Pure Boo. So we have:

SSJ3 Gotenks >/< Evil Boo > SSJ3 Goku > Pure Boo

Therfore Evil Boo is more powerful than Pure Boo. These quotes are not subjective, they are clear indications of the fighters strengths. They offer no room to be subjective. The only people who are being subjective with these comments are people who believe Pure Boo > Evil Boo because they say stuff like "Well, Goku lied before. So he must be lying about not being able to beat Evil Boo because I believe Pure Boo > Evil Boo" that is no way to carry an argument. Goku had no reason to lie to Vegeta.

[hleV]

Even still though, he's estimating, and nothing more. Goku's never seen the fusion of those two, so he can't say that he knows from first hand experience that the fusion will match Buu in power. Thus, he's simply predicting that since it made two shrimps ridiculously more powerful, that it would make two already ridiculously powerful kids even more ridiculously powerful. Buu is also ridiculously powerful. Who knows, maybe the fusion between these two ridiculously powerful brats might be just ridiculously powerful enough to beat Buu's ridiculous power.

And yes, he sounds certain when talking to Chichi, but this also Chichi we're talking about. You want to sound as certain as possible just to shut her up.

Goku didn't know the exact power Gotenks would have had, but he knew very well (as proven by his confidence in passing the fate of the universe to Gotenks) that Fusion is so extreme that if Goten & Trunks fused, they'd defeat Fat Boo (who's already known for his regeneration ability) in less than 30 minutes. It's not about knowing the exact fusion of Formula, it's about knowing that the Fusion would be at least this strong.

[Kaboom]

I think the bottom line in all this is that, from an in-universe power comparison angle, the Majin Boo arc is a bit of a mess. No matter what you settle on believing, you're going to end up contradicting or ignoring or twisting something.

[RandomGuy96]

You do know that Goku flat out stated Super Buu was way stronger than him, and he was stronger than Kid Buu, right? And that Piccolo sensed both Majin Vegeta and a suppressed SS3 Goku, and still thought that Gotenks would succeed where they failed (he also sensed Gotenks), even before he learned of SS3? And that Super Buu = Pure Evil Buu + Good Buu and Kid Buu = Super Buu - Good Buu, logically giving Kid Buu the exact same power as Pure Evil Buu?

Logically, Pure Evil Buu and Kid Buu should be the same being, with them looking different because one split off of a Kaioshin-dominated Buu and the other split off a Buu where the Majin influence was in control. They're both called Pure Evil. They're both far stronger than Good Buu. They're both Super Buu without Good Buu.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P11.1-3
Context: Goku tells Piccolo that he ‘probably’ couldn’t have defeated Boo with Super Saiyan 3
Piccolo: “…Probably? Knowing you, why didn’t you try until the very end?...Does it have to do with that energy…?”
Goku: “No… I’m no longer a human who’s particularly even supposed to be here…I shouldn’t be the one to do it. It’d be better for these young guys to solve things somehow or another…After all, some other outrageous guy might show up eventually, right? …It's a nasty gamble, but…Seeing those two super-gifted squirts, it made me want to take this gamble…”

Here Goku blatantly admits to Piccolo that this is a gamble - he's not certain these guys will absolutely win.

You also seem to be missing the fact that Goku also says that after seeing their power he is sure they can do it.

[Amuro Ray]

I don't know how people are still arguing this - we have the Daizenshuu stating that Post ROSAT Gotenks finally surpassed Vegeta and the others (this doesn't include Goku, we know him to be stronger than Vegeta) They can only be talking about power here, and not levels of SSJ - Gohan is the only other SSJ besides Vegeta and Goku, and I don't think using the words "surpassed" would be correct in describing Gohan and Gotenks this situation. Honestly, you're just reading it selectively because you don't agree with this fact.

Again, what BejitaSama stated is correct, there are many instances where we see an opportunity for people to comment on Gotenks (and Gohan's) power, especially in comparison to Goku - it's never mentioned and depending on how it's read, implied that they surpassed him. Even on the Kai's planet, when everyone first saw SSJ3 Gotenks, Goku doesn't compare their power to his own, instead he is just surprised at how they were able to obtain SSJ3 in a short period

Chapter: 493 (DBZ 299), P12.2-4
Kaioshin: “In-incredible…S-so this is Fusion?...”
Goku: “N-no…That’s Fusion, no doubt about it, but…Thi-this is Super Saiyan 3…! Un-unbelievable…Those rotten little brats…They al-already became Super Saiyan 3, and that took me years to finally manage it…Am-amazin’…haha…amazin’…!”
Note: So it seems that Goku never planned on Gotenks reaching Super Saiyan 3, but still thought he’d be able to defeat Boo (or at least that it was worth a shot).

In the Anime, Goku is asked if they are stronger than him, he dodges the questions and replies that they have a achieved much at their young age.