Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Mjb1985]

I think the Kikoho would have hurt Piccolo something bad. I think...

Gohan's Masenko (2800) > Piccolo's Blast > Kikoho > Piccolo

Agree or disagree?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Piccolo is stated to be 3,500 so no that won't work.

[RandomGuy96]

What does everyone here think of the theory that FPSS has a lower multiplier than the normal Super Saiyan? I'm trying to decide whether or not to incorporate it into my list. It would explain the kiri readings and the daizenshuu statements on the base kids and 18 at least.

[dbzfan7]

What does everyone here think of the theory that FPSS has a lower multiplier than the normal Super Saiyan? I'm trying to decide whether or not to incorporate it into my list. It would explain the kiri readings and the daizenshuu statements on the base kids and 18 at least.

That theory is so stupid for just one kiri moment that is never mentioned again. I personally think Goku held back when he transformed against Yakon.

[Kaboom]

I think it's another one of those things where, if such were meant to be the case, something would have said so. But officially, Full-Power Super Saiyan is rarely ever even mentioned, and it's almost always just lumped in with regular Super Saiyan and its 50x boost.

Interpret the 18/kids fight however you want, but I wouldn't worry too much about the kiri numbers. It's a barely-mentioned and unexplained system, and the actual numbers cited for Goku and Yakon are often used as just figures of speech for "a lot."

Plus, like dbzfan7 said, it's easily explained away by assuming Goku wasn't at full-power and was only trying to generate some light. Especially because Goku's shown pumping up his power further when he transforms again and Yakon tries to suck it away.

[TheMightyOzaru]

What does everyone here think of the theory that FPSS has a lower multiplier than the normal Super Saiyan? I'm trying to decide whether or not to incorporate it into my list. It would explain the kiri readings and the daizenshuu statements on the base kids and 18 at least.

A simpler solution would be to make Ssj a suppressed state for those who have mastered Ssj and just make the Ssj multiplier flexible for them. For example FPSSJ Goku would still be 5,000,000,000 off his base form of 100,000,000 but his SSJ form could be anywhere from 100,000,001-4,999,999,999.

[RandomGuy96]

Oh, another thing: Oozaru, looking at your list again, I noticed something. You have Dai Kaioshin stronger than South Kaioshin. But East Kaioshin stated Southie was the strongest of the five.

Anyway: so I guess I won't do that then. Not that it really matters either way. On a side note, my list would've been done by now if everything in between the birth of Super Buu and the birth of Kid Buu wasn't such a pain...

[Kamiccolo9]

I personally have the FPSSJ giving the same 50x boost, but that it also allows for greater gains in base form.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Daikaioshin doesn't qualify as Kaioshin since he is a DAIkaioshin.

[RandomGuy96]

No... East lumps Dai in with the others, and states that Southie is the strongest of the five.

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P4.2-7
Kaioshin: “In m…my era there were five Kaioshins…until they were defeated by the Majin Boo that the wizard Babidi created…I was the youngest and most powerless one, but I somehow survived, with only heavy injuries…But the other four fell to Boo…First, two were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo."

[TheMightyOzaru]

Kaioshin: “In m…my era there were five Kaioshins…until they were defeated by the Majin Boo that the wizard Babidi created…I was the youngest and most powerless one, but I somehow survived, with only heavy injuries…But the other four fell to Boo…First, two were killed…the North Kaioshin and the West Kaioshin….And then the South Kaioshin, the burliest and strongest one, was…somehow absorbed by Boo….. “
Elder Kaioshin: …And he became that huge Boo from before? “
Kaioshin: “…Yes…Next to be absorbed was the fat but kind and gentle Dai-Kaioshin….The Majin Boo that Bibidi created was evil itself, a failed creation that even Bibidi himself couldn’t handle, but by absorbing the Dai-Kaioshin, he somehow become controllable…. “
Elder Kaioshin: “…So he was finally completed…Which is to say…that this current…small Majin Boo…is the initial…mo…most troublesome one…”
Kaioshin: “….Yes…the heart which he gained by going so far as to lower his power through absorption…has returned once again to the way it was…he has no self-control whatsoever…he has become evil itself…”

While Dai-Kaioshin might be considered a Kaioshin, he is in a separate league. It's similar to how Dai-kaio is a Kaio yet is still considered separate from the 4. Burliest and strongest could also be interpreted as physically stronger considering the fact that it has the term burliest right next to it. I also have a hard time believing a lesser Kaioshin is stronger than a Dai-Kaioshin. You also have to consider the fact that Dai-kaioshin never fights according to East Kaioshin so he might not even know what he is capable of.

[RandomGuy96]

...Kaioshin said there were FIVE, and then stated that Southie was the strongest of those FIVE. Also, Dai Kaioshin is just the leader of the Kaioshin. In Dragon Ball, the leader is usually weaker than one of his subordinates.

[TheMightyOzaru]

...Kaioshin said there were FIVE, and then stated that Southie was the strongest of those FIVE. Also, Dai Kaioshin is just the leader of the Kaioshin. In Dragon Ball, the leader is usually weaker than one of his subordinates.

When has that ever been the case...? That aside, I found a way to make it work so I changed their levels appropriately.

[RandomGuy96]

Dai Kaioshin, King Furry, Master Shen, Commander Red, Officer Black, Guru, King Vegeta, Nappa, King Cold, Babidi...

[TheMightyOzaru]

Dai Kaioshin, King Furry, Master Shen, Commander Red, Officer Black, Guru, King Vegeta, Nappa, King Cold, Babidi...

I am referring to a leader of a small group... You have a few examples though.

[RandomGuy96]

What did you change around, math wise? I just see that you changed it so that South Kaioshin is stronger than Daiand Fatty and so Dai is stronger than Vegeta.

[TheMightyOzaru]

What did you change around, math wise? I just see that you changed it so that South Kaioshin is stronger than Daiand Fatty and so Dai is stronger than Vegeta.

Well I just decided 36,000,000,000 + 25,000,000,000 x 3.6(The beginning of Kid Buu's power level). I don't particularly like that method but that's what I have for now. I may change how I work this later.
EDIT: I decided that the increase Buu received was divided by the first digit in Buu's power level since South Kaioshin hindered Buu a little bit. So now it's this:
36,000,000,000 x 30/3(10) = 360,000,000,000/20 = 18,000,000,000(Fat Buu).

[RandomGuy96]

Instead of all that multiplication based on nothing, I just have Southie being stronger than Kid Buu, and Fat Buu not being that much stronger (say 70 vs 100) than Vegeta and SS Gotenks only being slightly stronger than Fatty. I did this to be conservative, but really Southy can be three times as strong as Kid Buu and everything would still make sense.

EDIT: If you're going to make him that high and use that system, you could just make Southy stronger than Kid Buu so East's remark about South "somehow" being absorbed by Buu make more sense. That seems to be what was implied. That level would also line up with the fight shown in the anime (yeah, it was filler, but it was filler I liked, therefore I don't call it filler, I call it "anime only").

[TheMightyOzaru]

I've already stated what the multiplication is based on. Also here is an idea let's just agree to disagree. I don't have the base Saiyans surpassing Freeza so it's not possible to have it be simple addition because that will make Gotenks a lot weaker than he should be. Hell no, I'm not making Southern Kaioshin that strong.

[dbzfan7]

I wanna make a list but i'm to indecisive to keep it the same.