Is Master Roshi's moon-busting feat an outlier?

[Hitiro]

I'm not sure it's ever stated that martial artists are the only ones who get to keep their bodies. There's a small dog and some kind of jellyfish with halos in the background when Goku's on Heaven, too, and I'm not sure they're supposed to be martial artists--but admittedly, I could be wrong.

What did that dog do to get such special treatment, anyway?

The amount of weight Goku can handle with muscle alone scales steadily throughout the manga

Who says he ever used muscles alone?

Perhaps only people who are good their whole lives can go there? So animals who are usually good get in easily for being good natured anyway, usually. If you are bad like Vegeta then according to Piccolo you lose your body and your soul will be reincarnated only after the memories have been cleansed from the souls.

[RandomGuy96]

I don't think so. Keep in mind that Piccolo later does this with ease in a split second with a one handed blast, and that you must take into consideration that Roshi:

--Was at MAX power.
--Was using an amplified attack
--Was the inventor of the Kamehameha, which his student could use to multiply his PL by 2.22
--Had a power level of 180 (per the guidebooks) during the King Piccolo saga (though that could be referring to his MAX).

[Hitiro]

--Was the inventor of the Kamehameha, which his student could use to multiply his PL by 2.22

This is assuming Roshi, the inventor of the Kamehameha, didn't have a better multiplier. We also have to remember that mastery of a technique plays a big part in its use. For instance, had Kuririn mastered the Kamehameha better in the tournament he may have done a better job by Roshi's statement.

[dbzfan7]

--Was the inventor of the Kamehameha, which his student could use to multiply his PL by 2.22

This is assuming Roshi, the inventor of the Kamehameha, didn't have a better multiplier. We also have to remember that mastery of a technique plays a big part in its use. For instance, had Kuririn mastered the Kamehameha better in the tournament he may have done a better job by Roshi's statement.

Yeah he mentioned on the lines that if Krillin mastered the kamehameha he would have easily beat Chaozu in a clash.

[RandomGuy96]

This is assuming Roshi, the inventor of the Kamehameha, didn't have a better multiplier. We also have to remember that mastery of a technique plays a big part in its use. For instance, had Kuririn mastered the Kamehameha better in the tournament he may have done a better job by Roshi's statement.

Exactly. Piccolo was weighted when he easily blew up the moon. So his power level would be around 370. Roshi would be around 139 and, according to the guidebooks, 180 in the King Piccolo saga, I usually take as referring to MAX power, as he was clearly weaker than Tien. If the latter were true, he'd only need the same old 2.22 multiplier to blow up the moon (2.22 x 180 = 399), while if the former were true he'd only need a slightly larger one.

[Bussani]

I don't think Roshi's feat is fundamentally unfitting, exactly, but I do think it can feel a bit out of place just since it comes out of nowhere and nothing that follows it seems anywhere near as impressive up until Piccolo does the same thing. That said, everyone can theoretically blow apart planets by the Cell arc, yet there are few feats that feel that impressive at that point either, simply due to how ki attacks don't seem to work that way (i.e. a Shin Kikoho aimed at the Earth won't destroy it). So it's fine in the grand scheme of things, I guess. Toriyama probably could have made the feats escalate more linearly if he'd thought ahead more, but that's just not his style.

[Rocketman]

Also the DB Moon is a piddly little thing since there were no catastrophic global tidal waves after its destruction.

[Bussani]

The idea that Dragon Ball's Moon is smaller and closer than the real one makes sense in a lot of ways, and I really do like it.

Yes, I know Toriyama used the Moon's real distance from Earth in an interview, but that doesn't keep me from liking the idea.

[MrFreeze7005]

It takes 300,000,000,000 MT to blow up the moon. If Roshi could seriously do that, then he wouldn't need to go buff and charge up a kamehameha to blow away the fire mountain...he should be able to do it with a small finger beam.
If you argue that he blew up the moon from the core and his kamehameha is not large enough to encompass the base, you are technically saying the moon's core is larger than the RRA's base. This argument is however debunked as a "missile" was stated to be strong enough to blow up their base, confirming that roshi's kamehameha is not even as strong as the missile.
Also, I'm not comfortable with the idea that physical blasts cause more damage than ki blasts...technically they are both kinetic energy so they should be able to do the same amount of damage.

It would make more sense if the moon in DB was much closer and smaller. This is also supported by the fact that their beams reach the moon in seconds (making them lightspeed), yet Raditz was able to easily dodge the same beam, yet couldn't dodge gohan's headbutt.

[The Monkey King]

I think Roshi wasn't too keen on the idea of disintergrating a bunch of humans with a kamehameha. I think he wanted to go toe-to-toe with them like how Goku did but he was too old therefore he didn't have enough stamina for it.

I do agree with you that ki attacks and physical attacks are the same and DB characters being more susseptable to physical explosions isn't the case as you have Kid Goku tanking bazookas, Frieza living through a planetary explosion while near death and Cell basically sleeping through a military strike.

[TheMightyOzaru]

A you are taking a gag Manga waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too seriously and B it takes 30 Trillion megatons to destroy the moon not 300 Billion.

[Hitiro]

It takes 300,000,000,000 MT to blow up the moon. If Roshi could seriously do that, then he wouldn't need to go buff and charge up a kamehameha to blow away the fire mountain...he should be able to do it with a small finger beam.
If you argue that he blew up the moon from the core and his kamehameha is not large enough to encompass the base, you are technically saying the moon's core is larger than the RRA's base. This argument is however debunked as a "missile" was stated to be strong enough to blow up their base, confirming that roshi's kamehameha is not even as strong as the missile.
Also, I'm not comfortable with the idea that physical blasts cause more damage than ki blasts...technically they are both kinetic energy so they should be able to do the same amount of damage.

It would make more sense if the moon in DB was much closer and smaller. This is also supported by the fact that their beams reach the moon in seconds (making them lightspeed), yet Raditz was able to easily dodge the same beam, yet couldn't dodge gohan's headbutt.

Ki attacks require Ki to block the attack. Physical explosions require a physical resilience from the person to block the explosion. Physical resilience by characters increases with higher ki levels but physical resilience isn't augmented by ki by large quantities. That is why defending against physical explosions >>>> ki attacks. As long as you have the same amount of ki as the ki attack you can always negate it. Physical explosions and weapons require you boost your bodies defence through ki.

[Mjb1985]

Yea this is a tough one. Perhaps our impression of the moon in this world is different. Using stats isn't good imo, the moon in the DB world isn't like the one in real life.

Also don't forget that Piccolo Daimao wasn't at full power when he blew up the city , sure he used some effort but it was a demonstration. Didn't he also threaten to destroy the world? I guess city by city but you never know.

Either discard it or open up to the possibility of City >>>> Moon. Lol.

[MrFreeze7005]

Also don't forget that Piccolo Daimao wasn't at full power when he blew up the city , sure he used some effort but it was a demonstration. Didn't he also threaten to destroy the world? I guess city by city but you never know.

He was at full power when he used the explosive demon wave on western city
Chapter: 156, P11.1-6
Context: after Goku and Piccolo fight a bit
Piccolo: “You’ve really done it…You’re the first person to ever wound the pride of Piccolo Daimao so much…”
Tenshinhan: “He’s laughing…Wh-why? Does this mean he still has room for composure?”
Goku: “Come at me with all you’ve got! Put out all your strength! Show me your true power!”
Tenshinhan: “Wh-what?! He’s not using his full power!?”
Piccolo: “Oh, I’m impressed that you noticed. But then, you would. My life span shortens when I fight at full power…I didn’t want to use it if at all possible, but…it seems I have no choice…”

After firing 2 of those beams he was severely exhausted.

Either discard it or open up to the possibility of City >>>> Moon. Lol.

And the fact that he brags so much about city busting proves that it was a big thing at that point in DB.

Yeah, DB logic says Island > City > Moon. The moon is probably smaller and closer

[Mjb1985]

I was referring to his demonstration. I wouldn't say his attacks against Goku were for purely demonstration. The surrounding area he destroyed off of that attack I would consider collateral damage more or less.

And yea, considering the options , why does that have to be a problem? In terms of Island > City > Moon? Is it that big of a deal? Seems simpler to just accept that.

Also , lets not forget how monstrous Roshi's Buff form appears to be. It's suggested that he could have perhaps killed even Oozaru Goku with a Kamehameha in his Buff form. It's quite possible that Roshi's Buff form is damn near as good of a boost as Oozaru.

So there are definitely some reasonable angles to the moon busting feat if you try.

[Rocketman]

Also what is this nonsense about "blowing up the Moon from the core". What does that even mean.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Also what is this nonsense about "blowing up the Moon from the core". What does that even mean.

It essentially means you are forcing the planet apart from it's core with an Omnidirectional blast.

[Mjb1985]

Yea considering there isn't a core , at least not like the one on Earth that could start a chain reaction, I see what you are saying. A bit harsh , but I hear you. Also , in those conspiracy theories about us landing on the moon , I remember reading the moon is hollow. And that landing on it caused it to ring for hours or something? Maybe not completely hollow , but definitely a different kind of piece of rock floating in space than Earth.

Although Island > City > Moon is hard to buy , there are probably some ways to make it somewhat reasonable.

And let's not forget that Buff Roshi is a god! He was heavily suggested they he could possibly kill an Oozaru Goku , who's base power was on par with his own. Buff Roshi could be super amplified with an amplified Kamehameha on top of that. He may be a lot closer to Piccolo Daimao's power than we think.

[Kamiccolo9]

I always just took it to mean that they can control the output of their ki in their attacks really well. We see waaaaaaay stronger attacks later in the series that do less damage than Roshi's Kamehameha, such as Vegeta's explosion only leaving a small crater, Nappa blowing up a city, and Freeza's attack failing to blow up Namek immediately. As I see it, any of the high end Dragonball fighters, and pretty much any of the ones in Z, could blow up the moon with ki if they wanted to, but why would they want to?

[Mjb1985]

That's an excellent point as well. Considering how rough of a time Roshi was having with control , ie supposed to put out fire ends up destroying mountain , that could very well be a good reason for that.

And like I mentioned before , we don't know exactly how strong Buff Roshi is. He might be extremely powerful.

What Roshi is doing is essentially a Ussj Grade 2 and only using it for maximum ki amplification. A very smart tactic by the way.