Buu Saga Info

[Kamiccolo9]

That's exactly what I mean. Piccolo due to Kami's previous god ship , was able to sense that Kaioshin was a god , a superior god at that and decided to back out based on that. I don't feel Piccolo could sense his actual power level though.

Well, there are numerous topics on that, and I don't really want to derail this one more than we already have If you want to keep discussing this, just PM me and let me know.

What about my other point?

@ Undertaker and Mjb1985, the manga never shows nor states Buu fighting the Kaioshins in the Kaioshin Realm. It's just as likely that the Kaioshins sensed Buu causing destruction in the mortal realm, and went to stop him themselves. Buu also couldn't teleport then, so how would he have gotten there?
The anime does show him fighting in the Kaioshin Realm, but if you want to include that, you need to include Buu sensing Goku and Vegeta at SSJ2 as well, which validates the point I'm trying to make.

[Mjb1985]

Regarding BOG? I don't know. I haven't watched it yet. When are the Entglish subtitles coming out?

[Draken]

Regarding BOG? I don't know. I haven't watched it yet. When are the Entglish subtitles coming out?

Not the BoG point, the point he quoted again in his last post...

[Kamiccolo9]

Regarding BOG? I don't know. I haven't watched it yet. When are the Entglish subtitles coming out?

No idea. Theres a very good summary on the site here if you are interested http://www.kanzenshuu.com/movie/battle- ... /synopsis/
But I was referring to my point about it being unknown if Buu had ever been to the Kaioshin Realm before.

[Mjb1985]

Ah gotcha. You actually got me with a rare filler moment mistake. Their fight on the Kaioshin Planet seems ingrained into my mind.

Is their scenery behind South Kaioshin in the manga when they show his picture ? Perhaps that will save me here.


Na, just some picture of rocks where East Kaioshin is laying beaten down. So you think Kid Buu has never been to Kaioshin's planet?

[Kamiccolo9]

Ah gotcha. You actually got me with a rare filler moment mistake. Their fight on the Kaioshin Planet seems ingrained into my mind.

Is their scenery behind South Kaioshin in the manga when they show his picture ? Perhaps that will save me here.

Nope. Just white.

[Mjb1985]

We have those rocks where East Kaioshin is though. Lol.

[Kamiccolo9]

We have those rocks where East Kaioshin is though. Lol.

True, but that looks almost exactly like a scene from his fight with Fat Buu on Earth.

[Mjb1985]

So you think the Kaioshins sought out Buu and Bobbidi? Not the other way around? I was under the impression they didn't get involved , Buu brought it to them and Kaioshin only intervened because Badibi was going to resurrect this great evil.

[Kamiccolo9]

So you think the Kaioshins sought out Buu and Bobbidi? Not the other way around? I was under the impression they didn't get involved , Buu brought it to them and Kaioshin only intervened because Badibi was going to resurrect this great evil.

Well, when you have a pink bubblegum monster blowing up planets and killing everyone in his path, you would think that those charged with protecting the mortal realm would have to step in at some point
In the anime, Buu and Bibidi did come to the Kaioshin realm, but it never says in the manga. What's more, how would they get there? Buu didn't learn to teleport until he saw Kibito Kai do it.

[Mjb1985]

Bobbidi seems to be their rival somehow. He would have had to bring him if anything. You bring up some good points. Bobbidi's lack of control over Kid Buu seems to help your point as well.

Perhaps Bobbidi brought Buu there to get help from the Kaioshins. Maybe he somehow knew absorbing them would help him control his creation? This is fascinating , thanks. I feel like there is a quote out there to end it all but the dialogue regarding this incident is extremely brief. Someone HALP!

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I always liked the idea of Boo attacking the Kaioshins, but I could see it happening the other way. It just seems odd that the North and West would be taken out so fast, then after the strongest Kaioshin gets absorbed, the weakest Kaioshin decides to fight Boo and barely escapes.

[Kamiccolo9]

I always liked the idea of Boo attacking the Kaioshins, but I could see it happening the other way. It just seems odd that the North and West would be taken out so fast, then after the strongest Kaioshin gets absorbed, the weakest Kaioshin decides to fight Boo and barely escapes.

Well, he may have been the third to fight. It just says that he absorbed South Kaioshin some unspecified time after he killed the first 2.
Incidentally, North and West Kaioshins have two of my favorite designs in the entire series. I really wish they could have been in the manga

[Mjb1985]

Me 2! Lets make this happen! Lol. But back to the main point , Kibito's teleportation doesn't require you to lock onto a ki signature.

Goku even states that Buu can't find them there. Wouldn't that suggest Goku feels he's out of ki sensing range?

[Kamiccolo9]

Me 2! Lets make this happen! Lol. But back to the main point , Kibito's teleportation doesn't require you to lock onto a ki signature.

Goku even states that Buu can't find them there. Wouldn't that suggest Goku feels he's out of ki sensing range?

He said that Buu couldn't follow him there. That was before he knew that Buu could teleport though.

[Mjb1985]

So how does Kibito teleport? Are you saying Kibito require a ki signature to teleport?

[Bussani]

Fat Buu can't be sensed from that distance. Unless you think the Super Saiyans are stronger than him , there's no way he could sense them.

I think it could be a mistake to apply the same level of ki sensing to everyone. When Raditz arrived, Goku couldn't track him down by his ki, but by the Buu arc, Goku can even pick out Bulma's tiny ki with a little concentration. Besides that, Goku, at Enma's place, was even able to pick up on Gohan's ki when he was in the Kaioshin realm, and Gohan wasn't even a Super Saiyan. Maybe it is possible for someone like Buu to feel out their ki in that situation.

So how does Kibito teleport? Are you saying Kibito require a ki signature to teleport?

He didn't mean that. He's saying that Goku only said Buu couldn't get to them because he didn't think Buu could teleport. Whether Buu could sense them or not doesn't matter if he can't follow them anyway.

Not in response to anyone in particular:

Everything in this thread has been interpretations. We interpret lines, we interpret scenes, and we put it all together to interpret the story in a certain way. And the thing about interpretations is that you can't prove them right or wrong--you can only prove them possible or not possible. I think that everyone has shown that the interpretations they've put forward can work so long as you're looking at it in a certain way. The problem--as always in these strength debates--is that some people seem to decide that their way is the only right way and can't see it from another angle at all; they insist that the "facts" are on their side without realizing that what they call "facts" can be looked at in a different way. This is exactly why you can't prove a person's interpretation wrong.

[Mjb1985]

Interesting . Goku isn't sure if he can teleport to New Namek due to their low chi and distance. Seems possible if they had high chi he could. New Namek must be awfully far.

Kibito's ability allows him to teleport to any planet. So Buu can teleport to any planet he wants. We just need to figure out if its based on ki sensing or not.

Luckily Bussani we are not involved in one of those heated debates. We are having a cordial discussion that has many possibilities and talking like gentleman. This isn't a right or wrong discussion. This is an exploration of a topic. But thank god for that, usually people with opposing views start bickering like crazy. It's nice to have a deep discussion about Dragonball with opposing views and speak like adults.

[Kamiccolo9]

So how does Kibito teleport? Are you saying Kibito require a ki signature to teleport?

No, he doesn't need to. But if he was looking for a specific person, say, if Kaioshin was on some other planet, and Kibito didn't know which one, he would have to sense him before teleporting to Kaioshin, otherwise, how would he know where to teleport to?

And, as Bussani mentioned above, this is all a theory. But I believe it is one that can be backed up by the manga, and it's one I personally subscribe to. I'm not trying to push my interpretation on to someone else, I've just stated it, and am now defending it.

[Undertaker]

Kid Buu knew exactly where Kaioshin's planet was as well. That was the last place he was. He saw Kaioshin and assumed they went there.

Fat Buu can't be sensed from that distance. Unless you think the Super Saiyans are stronger than him , there's no way he could sense them.

I don't think it has anything to do with power. Kaioshin knew how strong Freeza was, remember? And he also knew about the Super Saiyan transformations. How would he know about those if he hadn't sensed them before? If you're good enough at sensing ki, then I don't think it matters where you are. No one except Buu ever tried to sense into the Kaioshin Realm. What made SSJ3 Goku so special, was that no one was trying to sense him, but they did anyway.

Kaioshin has his godly ability and can sense anyone, even humans. Hence, why Goku always relies on King Kai for searching foes around the universe. Your point is disproven.

Kaio is shown to have telepathic abilities that Kaioshin doesn't have. My point is hardly disproven. Kaioshin's sensing abilities have been shown to be notoriously unreliable.

Buu knows where the planet is. He was there. He never sensed anything because he used a teleport that is not related to ki sensing

Stop double posting. And if he already knew where it was, what was he looking around for? And why did he react when he sensed something?[/quote]

Kaioshin was able to feel the Earthlings when they got killed by Super Buu while Goku was in disbeliefe so you are disproven again. The teleport he used has nothing to do with ki sensing. He went there because that was the last place he was and he saw Kaioshin.