The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Mjb1985]

Goku cannot access Super Saiyan of free will, it doesn't seem to suggest that he can do IT in Movie 5. Perhaps in the Movie 5/6 timeline , Goku came back to Earth first and went to Yardrat another time. Or maybe M6 retconned Yardrat back into M5 somehow. Not that I think the strength is different , I think Yardrat = M5 Goku.

Also , wouldn't Cooler know Goku killed both his brother and father? I don't think the Trunks Saga occurred in M5 yet.

[RandomGuy96]

Except it did.

Not turning SS can be filed under plot induced stupidity. Seriously, this happens in every movie: hero fights in base, loses, transforms, wins. And if you want to think Movie 6 retconned it, then k, it retconned it, but Goku in Movie 5 is officially stronger than Yardrat Goku. And Cooler not knowing about King Cold's death can be chalked up to him just not knowing; I believe he's in a whole other galaxy at the beginning of the movie so it would take him a while to reach Earth. No wonder he never got the news.

[Mjb1985]

Goku doesn't appear to be able to turn Super Saiyan of free will. It's not like he didn't want to. He was desperate and losing and he got really angry and had his purity moment bringing that bird back to life. That looked to me as a rage induced transformation , not one of free will imo.

[dbzfan7]

Except it did.

Not turning SS can be filed under plot induced stupidity. Seriously, this happens in every movie: hero fights in base, loses, transforms, wins. And if you want to think Movie 6 retconned it, then k, it retconned it, but Goku in Movie 5 is officially stronger than Yardrat Goku. And Cooler not knowing about King Cold's death can be chalked up to him just not knowing; I believe he's in a whole other galaxy at the beginning of the movie so it would take him a while to reach Earth. No wonder he never got the news.

Show me the statement from Toei that has movie 5 Goku above Yardrat Goku. I ain't saying that's wrong, but there is no official statement.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I subscribe to the notion that movies take place in alternate universes and that Movie 5 takes place in a universe where Goku came home before learning how to go Ssj of his own free will.

[Mjb1985]

Yep. That's how AT thinks of them as well. AT considers them alternate universes so I do the same.

In Movie 5 , I don't get the impression Yardrat , Mecha Freeza or King Cold were apart of that.

It feels to me that they started making the movie as if Goku killed Freeza on Namek and went home with his family and friends. Or went directly home after he killed Freeza.

[dbzfan7]

I subscribe to the notion that movies take place in alternate universes and that Movie 5 takes place in a universe where Goku came home before learning how to go Ssj of his own free will.

I seconded that notion. You can't fit the movies into canon without problems. Except movie 9 , 13, and 14.

[Mjb1985]

Young Roshi vs Goku ( 22nd Budokai )

[Insertclevername]

Young Roshi vs Goku ( 22nd Budokai )

I read that as "Yoshi vs. Goku (22nd Budokai)"

Gokuu would kick his ass. I believe that the new generation Kamesennin (& Tsurusennin) students far exceeded their masters in their prime (during the 22nd Budokai).

[Mjb1985]

Roshi seems to imply that Young Roshi is superior to the Roshi who was somewhere close to Tenshinhan's power at the 22nd Budokai.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Goku owns him.

[Mjb1985]

How so?

[dbzfan7]

Who can Suppaman beat?

[Mjb1985]

If Roshi is already close to Goku , wouldn't a superior Young Roshi who was capable of fighting against Piccolo Daimao , own Goku?

[RandomGuy96]

SS2 Gogeta (Buu Saga) vs Buuhan

SS3 Gogeta (Buu Saga) vs Buuhan.

[Kamiccolo9]

SS2 Gogeta (Buu Saga) vs Buuhan

SS3 Gogeta (Buu Saga) vs Buuhan.

Buuhan wins both, I think. Goten and Trunks should have been at least pretty close to base Goku and Vegeta after training in the Room of Space and Time, which should put Gogeta in the same league as Gotenks. He'd be stronger, but not enough to cover the huge gap between SSJ3 and Buuhan.

[dbzfan7]

SS2 Gogeta (Buu Saga) vs Buuhan

SS3 Gogeta (Buu Saga) vs Buuhan.

Buuhan wins both, I think. Goten and Trunks should have been at least pretty close to base Goku and Vegeta after training in the Room of Space and Time, which should put Gogeta in the same league as Gotenks. He'd be stronger, but not enough to cover the huge gap between SSJ3 and Buuhan.

Same here with me. Goten and Trunks weren't that far off from there dads. After the Rosat they would be closer to them.

[Mjb1985]

Goku seems to think that a Metamoran Gokan could definitely beat Buutenks. His utter confidence makes me feel he could perhaps beat Buuhan as well. I think it's possible that the weaker fighter determines the fusions power at least with Metamoran fusion considering the stronger fighter must come down to the weaker fighters power. So I think Gogeta and Gokan would have the same power.

The only othe fighter who is also suggested to be over Buutenks would be a Base Potara Gokan. So I get the impression that this could works.


Base Gokan ( Potara ) ~ Ssj3 Gokan ( Metamoran ) ~ Ssj 3 Gogeta > Buuhan > Buutenks

[Draken]

If Roshi is already close to Goku , wouldn't a superior Young Roshi who was capable of fighting against Piccolo Daimao , own Goku?

Capable? 3 people his power or stronger ganged up on Piccolo Daimao got buttraped effortlessly, I wouldn't say that's capable.

[PerfectFreeza]

Goku seems to think that a Metamoran Gokan could definitely beat Buutenks. His utter confidence makes me feel he could perhaps beat Buuhan as well. I think it's possible that the weaker fighter determines the fusions power at least with Metamoran fusion considering the stronger fighter must come down to the weaker fighters power. So I think Gogeta and Gokan would have the same power.

The only othe fighter who is also suggested to be over Buutenks would be a Base Potara Gokan. So I get the impression that this could works.


Base Gokan ( Potara ) ~ Ssj3 Gokan ( Metamoran ) ~ Ssj 3 Gogeta > Buuhan > Buutenks

Ummm..wouldn't Gokan be stronger?I mean,Gogeta=suppressed Goku to Vegeta's level.
So Gokan would be:suppressed Gohan to Goku's level.As for the fights,in my opinion,Gogeta wins and stomps as SSJ2 and SSJ3 respectively.
While hyphothetical Gogeta was stated to be no match for Gohan Boo by Boo himself,he was just being arrogant.
Then there is also SSJ Vegetto being surprised at his own power.
Vegetto: “…Well, don’t feel too bad. Even I’m surprised. To think that I’d be able to make this big a fool out of you.”
So I would place hyphothetical SSJ Gogeta probably under Gohan Boo,but above Gohan.