Dragon Boxes w/ Faulconer Soundtrack?

[DBZ Mick]

I truly just think it comes down to how you watched it first. If you watched it in Japanese first, then you're likely to despise any changes they made such as the Faulconer soundtrack or the dub in general and that's just the way it is.

Eh, no. I watched the dub first and then Japanese and while I like some Faulconer tracks, it just doesn't fit the show. It changes the whole feel of it (along with the writing of the dub).

I think the whole approach for the Dragon Boxes were for the original Japanese fans based on all the advertising and such. Not to mention that they were always apparently intended for a limited only release...

[SativaSam]

I truly just think it comes down to how you watched it first. If you watched it in Japanese first, then you're likely to despise any changes they made such as the Faulconer soundtrack or the dub in general and that's just the way it is.

Eh, no. I watched the dub first and then Japanese and while I like some Faulconer tracks, it just doesn't fit the show. It changes the whole feel of it (along with the writing of the dub).

I think the whole approach for the Dragon Boxes were for the original Japanese fans based on all the advertising and such. Not to mention that they were always apparently intended for a limited only release...

But if you're a business, and you're trying to sell the most product (Which is, or atleast SHOULD be the goal of every company) wouldn't you want to put as many features on there as you can to appeal to consumers? I know a lot of people who wish the Faulconer music was on the Dragon Boxes, and as I said before, I am sure Funimation still has the rights to it, so it's not like they would be dipping into their budget money produce the Dragon Boxes.

I am someone who wants the Dragon Boxes because of their premium video quality, not because I'm some hardcore Japanese fan who wants anything and everything JP related to Dragon Ball.

And like someone above me said, the reason these recent DBZ releases are tanking in sales, is because of how badly Funimation is handling the releases! You vote with your wallet, sure, but by the time Level 1.1 on Blu-Ray came out, we were all broke from all of the releases!

Look, it's one thing to release 573 versions of Dragon Ball Z, but DON'T do each release right after another! Literally the minute Season 9 of the Orange Box came out, Funimation started advertising for the Dragon Box, then Level 1.1, Kai, etc. It just got out of hand. They would have made a LOT more money had they paced themselves with their releases. They splurged their entire budget trying to get out as many versions as possible.

[jpdbzrulz4sure]

I'm well aware that Dragon Ball began in the 1980's... but it doesn't mean that the action/adventure anime's soundtrack itself needs to sound like its decade of dance music...

This I don't understand. You say that as though the entire score sounds like dance music from the 80's, and yet I only recall maybe two or three pieces that even remotely sound like that. The vast majority of the score sounds like straight-up orchestral music to me (aside from maybe the use of a few cartoony percussion instruments).

On a side note, I've never bought the notion that music needs blaring rock guitars and synths to qualify as "action music".

[penguintruth]

Part of the problem is I think those same elitists believe the term "hardcore fans" can only apply to them but I've got to wonder, how many of them actually supported each and every Dragon Box release and how many of them thought "meh, it's fifteen years too late"? Unfortunately, we don't know what the status of FUNimation's license for the Dragon Box masters are as the footage for the Level blu-rays were from generational prints.

Dub fans buy every crappy release Funimation puts out which only lowers the standards for future products. The people with standards who wait for Funimation to not screw up are to be commended. When the Dragon Boxes came out, I bought every one of them. Pretty much as soon as each came out. Because I support quality.

When the dub is almost a different show, how can dub fans be considered fans at all? They're fans of something DBZ was turned into, not fans of what it is.

It's like saying you're a Macross fan but you're only a fan of Robotech.

[DBZ Mick]

But if you're a business, and you're trying to sell the most product (Which is, or atleast SHOULD be the goal of every company) wouldn't you want to put as many features on there as you can to appeal to consumers?

It depends on the product and the Dragon Boxes were aimed at the original Japanese audience.

[OutlawTorn]

Part of the problem is I think those same elitists believe the term "hardcore fans" can only apply to them but I've got to wonder, how many of them actually supported each and every Dragon Box release and how many of them thought "meh, it's fifteen years too late"? Unfortunately, we don't know what the status of FUNimation's license for the Dragon Box masters are as the footage for the Level blu-rays were from generational prints.

Dub fans buy every crappy release Funimation puts out so they're the ones that are hardcore fans, not the people with standards who wait for Funimation to not screw up? Well, when the Dragon Boxes came out, I bought every one of them.

Where did I say buying every release makes one a "hardcore fan"? You can be a hardcore fan without buying the series (no, that does not imply or endorse bootlegging) but when the Dragon Boxes were announced with the "hardcore fan" label slapped on them, you would see the fans of the Japanese version strutting about like it must be talking about them. Furthermore, if you really read what I had said, you would realize I wasn't saying fans of the Japanese version aren't "hardcore fans" rather it was the elitists in that group who felt "hardcore" can only apply to fans of the Japanese, thus excluding fans of the FUNimation dub. The complete opposite of what you were accusing me of saying.

But, yeah, if there's someone who bought all of the single DVDs and all of the season sets and then all of the Dragon Boxes, it wouldn't matter which version they prefer they would certainly be able to claim they are a "hardcore fan" but what does such a label really mean? Like I said, it doesn't matter which version of the show we prefer, none of us are better than the other and it's only the arrogant and self-righteous who would even entertain such ideas.

It's great you bought all of the Dragon Boxes, so did I. If I thought they would even be a possibility do you think I would have bought the season sets? Hell no, but for all intents and purposes it really looked like that was the best we would get for DBZ on DVD. Unfortunately Toei really screwed up big time letting that horrid version be licensed out to other distributors. While I don't personally care for the Faulconer soundtrack, I can sympathize with those who do and they deserve to have DBZ presented in as perfect a release as possible as those who prefer the Japanese version.

When the dub is almost a different show, how can dub fans be considered fans at all? They're fans of something DBZ was turned into, not fans of what it is.

Of course, such a phenomenon is not strictly limited to FUNimation dubs or English dubs in general, but it's really the same show nonetheless. Sure, the dub is far from ideal and has stupid dialogue strewn through-out, but we've left the days of VHS behind where you had access to just one or the other. With the DVDs, everybody has the option of turning on the subtitles even when they are watching the English (or the language of the dub they watch) version. The fact is, casual fan or hardcore fan, we are all equal and don't have to put up with the bullying behaviour of being looked down upon because we dare to enjoy something other than the Japanese version.

[penguintruth]

Uh, of course people who are fans of the show as it should be are better fans. They're fans of the actual show, not the nonsense Funimation turned it into. That version isn't the show. It's not even close.

I mean, normally, yeah, fans of the Japanese version of an anime are no better than fans of the English dub of it, but that's because English dubs tend not to be that different from the Japanese version. When you have a version of the show so radically different from the original, then yeah, there's absolutely a fan hierarchy. This isn't just "you're inferior because I don't like the dub", it's because the English version of this particular property is practically a different show. And when the English dub doesn't reflect the Japanese version even casually, it's inferior.

That being said, the genie's already out of the bottle, so to speak. No reason to not include to Faulconer music if you can fit it on. You can't make it un-exist. You just have to hope something like that never happens again.

[SativaSam]

I'm well aware that Dragon Ball began in the 1980's... but it doesn't mean that the action/adventure anime's soundtrack itself needs to sound like its decade of dance music...

This I don't understand. You say that as though the entire score sounds like dance music from the 80's, and yet I only recall maybe two or three pieces that even remotely sound like that. The vast majority of the score sounds like straight-up orchestral music to me (aside from maybe the use of a few cartoony percussion instruments).

On a side note, I've never bought the notion that music needs blaring rock guitars and synths to qualify as "action music".

Sorry for speaking in generalities, I just feel that the Faulconer soundtrack fits DBZ more because it's clearly action driven, where as a series like the original Dragon Ball is more straight up adventure (which is why the JP soundtrack in my eyes fits the original Dragon Ball)

But again, to Mick, yes, it was aimed at the "Japanese audience", but once again, if you're not trying to sell the most product and make the most money as a company you're doing something wrong. Don't get the notion that Funimation brought the Dragon Boxes over out of the kindness of their heart. It's been noted that they were losing money on a lot of these products, and in my opinion is was because of 2 things: oversaturation, and failure to make a "complete" release (you either have to buy a set in which the quality is better, but doesn't have all features, or buy one with inferior video quality that does have all the features)

[ABED]

Sure the goal of a rational company would be to make money but there's nothing that says every single product has to be aimed at a mass market. Sometimes, it's perfectly rational to release a niche product.

I don't think the Faulconer track fits the series. Yes there's action (which the Kikuchi score fits perfectly) but there's also a whimsical side to it that the techno music just doesn't get. There are plenty of moments that the Faulconer track doesn't convey the proper tone. Bulma's theme makes her sound like she's vapid, for one.

Given the prices of the earlier sets, I'd say you can easily guess who the intended target market was - fans of the original version.

[SativaSam]

Well, at the end of the day, this thread wasn't made to start some dispute. I enjoy Faulconer. I enjoy his soundtrack. I would like to be able to put it onto the Dragon Boxes, but it looks like that involves some really complicated and well-timed editing in something like Audacity which is something I just don't have the patience for. Only reason I asked in the first place was because I heard some people were able to put subtitles on their Dragon Box Movies.

[VegettoEX]

Many things to respond with, but let's at least get in the requisite penguintruth condemnation of "stop fucking saying that people aren't fans of the show you unbelievable jerk why do I have to keep saying this and why aren't you banned yet I have given you far too many chances".

[dbboxkaifan]

Well, at the end of the day, this thread wasn't made to start some dispute. I enjoy Faulconer. I enjoy his soundtrack. I would like to be able to put it onto the Dragon Boxes, but it looks like that involves some really complicated and well-timed editing in something like Audacity which is something I just don't have the patience for. Only reason I asked in the first place was because I heard some people were able to put subtitles on their Dragon Box Movies.

It's actually their soundtrack, because Faulconer Productions had four composers in total although it's normally only credited as Bruce Faulconer whether it's on the CD releases or the DBZ-US. Even its own fans of the US Music aren't aware of who was behind the creation of the score, they should be more informed about it than argue which is the better music (never ending discussion on YouTube).

Shouldn't say this here, but Anime-Supreme (aka: a-S) group used the original Japanese Dragon Box Z episodes and included Original Japanese audio, FUNimation English Dub W/Original Music & FUNimation English Dub W/Replacement Music. Replacement music being Faulconer Productions.

Getting their version is as close as you'll get to a proper release that you seek out.

[Ringworm128]

Part of the problem is I think those same elitists believe the term "hardcore fans" can only apply to them but I've got to wonder, how many of them actually supported each and every Dragon Box release and how many of them thought "meh, it's fifteen years too late"? Unfortunately, we don't know what the status of FUNimation's license for the Dragon Box masters are as the footage for the Level blu-rays were from generational prints.

Dub fans buy every crappy release Funimation puts out which only lowers the standards for future products. The people with standards who wait for Funimation to not screw up are to be commended. When the Dragon Boxes came out, I bought every one of them. Pretty much as soon as each came out. Because I support quality.

When the dub is almost a different show, how can dub fans be considered fans at all? They're fans of something DBZ was turned into, not fans of what it is.

It's like saying you're a Macross fan but you're only a fan of Robotech.

Since when has there been a rule book on being a fan? You're a Dragonball fan if you're into anything from the franchise, even if it's collecting DBZ plushies you're still a fan in some way. Is someone not a Batman fan if they only watch Brave and The Bold or the Nolan trilogy? It's almost as stupid as the "you're not a fan if you don't buy and enjoy every single thing with the series name on it" thing. And the DBZ dub isn't a different show, different music, a couple of rewritten characters and lines like "he made me what I am" doesn't equal a different show. It's still the same show, same story, same characters and to an extent the dialogue is usually similar except it's just watered down or spiced up. And now that we have the season sets etc the whole Faulconer score "problem" is gone.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Part of the problem is I think those same elitists believe the term "hardcore fans" can only apply to them but I've got to wonder, how many of them actually supported each and every Dragon Box release and how many of them thought "meh, it's fifteen years too late"? Unfortunately, we don't know what the status of FUNimation's license for the Dragon Box masters are as the footage for the Level blu-rays were from generational prints.

Dub fans buy every crappy release Funimation puts out which only lowers the standards for future products. The people with standards who wait for Funimation to not screw up are to be commended. When the Dragon Boxes came out, I bought every one of them. Pretty much as soon as each came out. Because I support quality.

When the dub is almost a different show, how can dub fans be considered fans at all? They're fans of something DBZ was turned into, not fans of what it is.

It's like saying you're a Macross fan but you're only a fan of Robotech.

Since when has there been a rule book on being a fan? You're a Dragonball fan if you're into anything from the franchise, even if it's collecting DBZ plushies you're still a fan in some way. Is someone not a Batman fan if they only watch Brave and The Bold or the Nolan trilogy? It's almost as stupid as the "you're not a fan if you don't buy and enjoy every single thing with the series name on it" thing. And the DBZ dub isn't a different show, different music, a couple of rewritten characters and lines like "he made me what I am" doesn't equal a different show. It's still the same show, same story, same characters and to an extent the dialogue is usually similar except it's just watered down or spiced up. And now that we have the season sets etc the whole Faulconer score "problem" is gone.

He simply said that what Funimation released was crappy for dub fans. What he said was truth. Ever since Funimation took over from 1999 to 2009, was there ever a great quality in which Funimation has made for the dub fans? What they did wasn't the standards of what there should have been in the first place, even for anime in general. If you watch different anime released in U.S. from late 1990s, you'd see there were excellent dubs produced. I'm sorry to say, but Dragon Ball was the only major franchise to recieve poor dub in U.S. Even GNE, Inuyasha, Rurouni Kenshin, Cowboy Bebop, and to name a few had produced excellent dubs. They enjoyed the dub of which we never enjoyed when Funimation took over. Terrible scripts, voices, musics. And they went on that for several years. That is, until 2010 when they began dubbing Kai. Had they properly dubbed it, we wouldn't even be complaining at all. We would have enjoyed the version that is identical to the original Japanese. There would be less flame wars on sub vs. dub.

When a dubbing company turned the show around, it became totally different show and story, because it wasn't what it was intended for the viewers to see and hear. In other words, what Funimation did was not what Dragon Ball was meant to be, even for casual dub fans. Have you even seen how dub fans had turned out? Look at Youtube and other message boards. It was a mess. It was painful to even talk to them sometimes. I'm glad Funimation is long past that and has become one of the best dubbing companies.

[Ringworm128]

I never said that he said that, I simply said that the "you're not a real fan if you don't watch the Japanese version" argument is as bad as the "you're not a real fan if you don't support the series in every way," mindset some people have. And it's a bit harsh to say Funimation never did anything good until Kai, are you forgetting the awesome video game dubs and Funimation's later dubs like movies 12 and 13? Even the Ultimate Uncut dub can hold it's own against Kai acting wise considering they didn't have as good as material to work with. Back on topic this dude seems to be working on a Faulconer Dragonbox. http://smashboards.com/threads/perfect- ... -z.309033/

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

I never said that he said that, I simply said that the "you're not a real fan if you don't watch the Japanese version" argument is as bad as the "you're not a real fan if you don't support the series in every way," mindset some people have. And it's a bit harsh to say Funimation never did anything good until Kai, are you forgetting the awesome video game dubs and Funimation's later dubs like movies 12 and 13? Even the Ultimate Uncut dub can hold it's own against Kai acting wise considering they didn't have as good as material to work with.

...What? UUE was terrible acting-wise. Even the music was terrible. The Kai dub is infinitely better than the UUE dub. There shouldn't even be a comparison between them. Even Sabat and Schemmel admitted that Kai was what they needed the most to show that they can make great dub of it.

Movie 12 and 13 were okay. They're still not in the standard. I'll admit the newer video games had good dubs, but still, they are video games, not an actual anime.

[Zenkai]

but the Japanese soundtrack overall just isn't as good as the Faulconer!

Opinion.

The orange boxes have unbearably bad video quality

Opinion.

[Zenkai]

it is possible -- though still technically against the law according to the DMCA in the United States

I don't recommend breaking the law....

[Ringworm128]

The UUE dub was great considering it was based off the 96-98 dub and 99 dub. Just listen to how much better this http://youtu.be/0tmccRo8Pxo?t=8s sounds compared to http://youtu.be/EdGa-2BSFiI?t=25s

[Zenkai]

Uh, of course people who are fans of the show as it should be are better fans. They're fans of the actual show, not the nonsense Funimation turned it into. That version isn't the show. It's not even close.

Care to explain how it is a different show? I want specific details.