Dragon Boxes w/ Faulconer Soundtrack?

[Corpsecreate]

I have all R2 dragon box episodes colour corrected with all 3 audio options + english subtitles. Took me over a year to do it all.

In that time I gathered some interesting frame data: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... frame+data

[Gotham22]

Since giving the orginal music a chance a while back, I perfer it more than the Faulconer music now. Though I would like to own the entire DBZ series with the Fauloner music, uncut , and isn't cropped one of these day.

[Metalwario64]

Though I would like to own the entire DBZ series with the Fauloner music, uncut , and isn't cropped one of these day.

Then you should get the old single DVDs. Every episode Faulconer scored was released on the single DVDs, and they are uncut and not cropped (though they're zoomed slightly).

If space is an issue, get a cheap DVD Binder/Wallet to hold them all in.

[dbboxkaifan]

The orange boxes have unbearably bad video quality

Opinion.

Take this comparison for example.

Dragon Box X Orange Bricks

Dragon Box Z



Orange Bricks



Dragon Box Z



Orange Bricks



Dragon Box Z



Orange Bricks



Dragon Box Z



Orange Bricks

As you can see the Orange Turds-- oops, Orange Bricks look terrible in comparison to the Dragon Box edition. Although if money's tight hold on, FUNimation might announce a new DBZ release with better quality than OBs.

[/quote]

The orange bricks do have bad -- no, atrocious picture quality and it's a fact.

[DBZ Mick]

Uh, of course people who are fans of the show as it should be are better fans. They're fans of the actual show, not the nonsense Funimation turned it into. That version isn't the show. It's not even close.

Care to explain how it is a different show? I want specific details.

Offhand watch the Bardock TV Special in English...

They completely butchered that for one.

Vegeta's death speech.

The music really doesn't fit the show. It makes the show feel like some generic action show (although as I posted above I do like certain themes). I don't really like the electronic music either. Not to mention they use it way too much.

[DemonRin]

Really, even for a dub fan, the Dragon Boxes are pretty much perfect provided the Faulconer track isn't a make-or-break piece of your Dragon Ball Experience.

To be quite frank, replacement scores aren't really a thing that are done anymore outside of 4kids. It's now Taboo in the world of Anime dubs to do a replacement score, the mantra now is simply to keep the Japanese version as-is. FUNi preferring the Japanese score (Making it the default, 5.1 surround track on every dub release) is clearly an indication of this. But what's more, they've been doing this since the Orange Bricks and while there definitely has been a vocal minority of the Dub fanbase crying foul over the music, there hasn't really been major uproar over it. Not enough to make FUNi ever do a 5.1 track for the Faulconer stuff. Faulconer always feels like an extra wherever it's added rather than the main presentation.
Yet that release sold like Hotcakes and MOST casual fans honestly don't care. My cousins are huge dubbies, my brothers only like the dub. When they watched my cousin's Bricks or My DBoxes they never even made a single comment about the music. It was such a non issue to them that they didn't even bother with it.

I mean, think of it this way, right now you can watch DBZ for free streaming at FUNimation's website. They made the Kikuchi score the version they put on their site. Faulconer isn't even an option. Nobody is starting a campaign to get them to put it up either.

What this means is that either
A: FUNimation is trying to make DBZ fall more in line with what has now become a "Traditional" FUNimation product, IE keeping as much of the Japanese version as possible.
B: Not enough people care about the Faulconer music for it to be anything but an extra or an afterthought.
C: A combo of A & B.

It's a fact that dub fans need to live with.

As far as "Orange Bricks" Vs. "Dragon Box" goes, you have to ask yourself a simple question:
What is more of a deal breaker for you? Video Quality or Faulconer Score? Answer that question and you have your answer.

[dbboxkaifan]

It's now Taboo in the world of Anime dubs to do a replacement score, the mantra now is simply to keep the Japanese version as-is.

Well, that doesn't count for Dragon Ball Kai.

Just for once I'd preferred that FUNimation used the Faulconer Productions score for Dragon Ball Kai's English dub because Kai with the Replacement Soundtrack would make anyone's ears vomit if they could. It's not that the Kikuchi music is bad, it's just too limited and they used the same tracks over and over again.

I love Kikuchi's music just not in Kai.

Kei17's Top 10 Overused Pieces in the Replacement Score Version.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Uh, of course people who are fans of the show as it should be are better fans. They're fans of the actual show, not the nonsense Funimation turned it into. That version isn't the show. It's not even close.

Care to explain how it is a different show? I want specific details.

There are countless examples, really. So much so that to write them all would be exhausting. So, here's a fun little experiment you can do. Watch the show with the dub's audio track, but turn the subtitles for the Japanese version on. You'll often find that the characters are saying completely different things in the dub than they were in the original Japanese version. I don't mean that like the dialogue was a tad rephrased to fit the lip flaps, I'm not opposed to that and actually think it helps to make the dialogue seem more natural in a dub. I mean like the meaning of what they were saying was completely different. There really are too many examples to name.

The writing did improve in time as far as faithfully adapting the original Japanese scripts, and so the faithfulness of the writing will vary depending on what part of the dub you're at. The best area is generally considered to be the Buu arc, and the worst area is generally considered to be the area of the Freeza arc when FUNimation began dubbing the show themselves instead of using the Ocean Studios cast...this area is referred to as...........

........SEASON 3.....
*QUE SUDDEN, ORCHESTRAL TERROR MUSIC*

The term "Season 3," is one tossed around even by devout sub fans, even though it is technically incorrect to classify DBZ into seasons, because that's not how it aired in Japan. The reason for this is because it's a nice, short, direct way of referring to what many people consider to be the Dark Ages of the dub. The absolute lowest point, when DBZ was handed over to people who--by their own admission, years later--really had no idea what they were doing. Most of the dub's most notable errors come from "Season 3."

So...yeah, too many examples to name. I'll just name a few quick ones.

1) Freeza. In the original version, he spoke like a gentleman, with very "upper-class" dialogue that made for an eery contrast when put up against the atrocities he commits. In the DBZ dub, he was just.....generically evil. And he joked a lot, using jokes that were--in my humble opinion--not even remotely funny.

2) Goku. He lived for fighting in the original Japanese version. Yes, he loved his friends and family, and yes, that often served as his motivation to fight...but there was a part of him, which I attribute to his Saiyan heritage, that always wanted to fight, sometimes even at the risk of putting his friends and loved ones in danger. In the DBZ dub, he was written as a sort of generic superhero who only wanted to do the right thing all the time. In the original version, he let Vegeta go because he wanted to fight him again, and in the dub, he let him go because he wanted to show him mercy. In the original version, there was a scene where he was taunting Ginyu about how he was hiding his true power level, and for who-knows why, that line in the dub was changed to, "You know, you don't have to hurt other people for amusement, helping people can be fun too--you should try it some time!"

3) Vegeta. He was depicted as a sort of victim of his upbringing at the hands of Freeza in the dub, when in reality, he already had that savage urge for combat without any of Freeza's influence. When he died in the dub, he talked about how he was only doing what he did because "Freeza made me this way," whereas in the original, he said nothing like that, and was actually just begging Goku to beat Freeza so that Freeza could die at the hands of a Saiyan. This is--I think--possibly the reason behind the dialogue in "Dragon Ball Z Abridged," when Vegeta says to Goku, "Oh no, I 'd definitely still be evil. If our positions were reversed, this conversation would never have happened...you'd be dead, and I'd be laughing."

4) The narrator. In the original, the narrator was a thoughtful, old voice whose narrations were more...thoughtful, I guess you could say. In the dub, they made the narrator into an over-the-top joke-teller.

5) It was not at all uncommon for moments of prolonged silence to be filled in with dialogue that was not originally there. The idea being that kids couldn't handle "boring silence."

6) It was not at all uncommon for jokes to be dropped where there originally were none. Ex-producer and dub director Barry Watson even said in an interview that they had a writer whose sole job was to come in and "punch up the comedy."

7) In the original version, there were plenty of moments with no music, whereas in the dub, it was music non-stop every single episode.

Put another way.....y'know the 4Kids dub of "One Piece"? Well, the FUNimation dub of DBZ was the 4Kids "One Piece" dub of its day. Thankfully, the dub of DBZ got better with time (unlike the 4Kids "One Piece" dub), people who were looking to change the show (like Barry Watson) lost power and influence, and people who were looking to faithfully adapt the original source material (like Chris Sabat) gained power and influence. That's the main appeal for many people behind the dub of "Kai": the dub scripts, while not free of occasional hiccups, are infinitely more loyal to the original Japanese source material...and ironically, the most faithfully-written area of the "Kai" dub is the same area that corresponds to "Season 3" of the DBZ dub.

[Gaffer Tape]

The term "Season 3," is one tossed around even by devout sub fans, even though it is technically incorrect to classify DBZ into seasons, because that's not how it aired in Japan.

Actually it's not at all incorrect in this case because it is referring specifically to the U.S. broadcast, which did indeed have specific seasons, which in turn corresponded to specific production timeframes, casting, and distribution. U.S. DBZ did have a season 3... and it sucked.

What is incorrect is referring to the "season" labels on the orange bricks as seasons because, well, they're not. While season 3 is not the most out there example, it's not entirely accurate either. I believe, and I could be misremembering, everything on the season 3 set is from season 3, but that the rest of season 3 is spread across "seasons" 2 and 4.

[Gotham22]

Though I would like to own the entire DBZ series with the Fauloner music, uncut , and isn't cropped one of these day.

Then you should get the old single DVDs. Every episode Faulconer scored was released on the single DVDs, and they are uncut and not cropped (though they're zoomed slightly).

If space is an issue, get a cheap DVD Binder/Wallet to hold them all in.

Actually I meant to say have the entire series uncut, not cropped, and with the Johnson/Faulconer music.

[Zenkai]

The orange bricks do have bad -- no, atrocious picture quality and it's a fact.

No. It is your opinion.

Yes, when the lines disappear, it looks bad. However, the lines only disappear for several seconds. Around 10 seconds out of approximately 419,040 seconds is not that bad.

And sure, some colors are washed out occasionally in the earlier sets, but the get fixed mostly after season 3.

[Zenkai]

Uh, of course people who are fans of the show as it should be are better fans. They're fans of the actual show, not the nonsense Funimation turned it into. That version isn't the show. It's not even close.

Care to explain how it is a different show? I want specific details.

There are countless examples, really. So much so that to write them all would be exhausting. So, here's a fun little experiment you can do. Watch the show with the dub's audio track, but turn the subtitles for the Japanese version on. You'll often find that the characters are saying completely different things in the dub than they were in the original Japanese version. I don't mean that like the dialogue was a tad rephrased to fit the lip flaps, I'm not opposed to that and actually think it helps to make the dialogue seem more natural in a dub. I mean like the meaning of what they were saying was completely different. There really are too many examples to name.

The writing did improve in time as far as faithfully adapting the original Japanese scripts, and so the faithfulness of the writing will vary depending on what part of the dub you're at. The best area is generally considered to be the Buu arc, and the worst area is generally considered to be the area of the Freeza arc when FUNimation began dubbing the show themselves instead of using the Ocean Studios cast...this area is referred to as...........

........SEASON 3.....
*QUE SUDDEN, ORCHESTRAL TERROR MUSIC*

The term "Season 3," is one tossed around even by devout sub fans, even though it is technically incorrect to classify DBZ into seasons, because that's not how it aired in Japan. The reason for this is because it's a nice, short, direct way of referring to what many people consider to be the Dark Ages of the dub. The absolute lowest point, when DBZ was handed over to people who--by their own admission, years later--really had no idea what they were doing. Most of the dub's most notable errors come from "Season 3."

So...yeah, too many examples to name. I'll just name a few quick ones.

1) Freeza. In the original version, he spoke like a gentleman, with very "upper-class" dialogue that made for an eery contrast when put up against the atrocities he commits. In the DBZ dub, he was just.....generically evil. And he joked a lot, using jokes that were--in my humble opinion--not even remotely funny.

2) Goku. He lived for fighting in the original Japanese version. Yes, he loved his friends and family, and yes, that often served as his motivation to fight...but there was a part of him, which I attribute to his Saiyan heritage, that always wanted to fight, sometimes even at the risk of putting his friends and loved ones in danger. In the DBZ dub, he was written as a sort of generic superhero who only wanted to do the right thing all the time. In the original version, he let Vegeta go because he wanted to fight him again, and in the dub, he let him go because he wanted to show him mercy. In the original version, there was a scene where he was taunting Ginyu about how he was hiding his true power level, and for who-knows why, that line in the dub was changed to, "You know, you don't have to hurt other people for amusement, helping people can be fun too--you should try it some time!"

3) Vegeta. He was depicted as a sort of victim of his upbringing at the hands of Freeza in the dub, when in reality, he already had that savage urge for combat without any of Freeza's influence. When he died in the dub, he talked about how he was only doing what he did because "Freeza made me this way," whereas in the original, he said nothing like that, and was actually just begging Goku to beat Freeza so that Freeza could die at the hands of a Saiyan. This is--I think--possibly the reason behind the dialogue in "Dragon Ball Z Abridged," when Vegeta says to Goku, "Oh no, I 'd definitely still be evil. If our positions were reversed, this conversation would never have happened...you'd be dead, and I'd be laughing."

4) The narrator. In the original, the narrator was a thoughtful, old voice whose narrations were more...thoughtful, I guess you could say. In the dub, they made the narrator into an over-the-top joke-teller.

5) It was not at all uncommon for moments of prolonged silence to be filled in with dialogue that was not originally there. The idea being that kids couldn't handle "boring silence."

6) It was not at all uncommon for jokes to be dropped where there originally were none. Ex-producer and dub director Barry Watson even said in an interview that they had a writer whose sole job was to come in and "punch up the comedy."

7) In the original version, there were plenty of moments with no music, whereas in the dub, it was music non-stop every single episode.

Put another way.....y'know the 4Kids dub of "One Piece"? Well, the FUNimation dub of DBZ was the 4Kids "One Piece" dub of its day. Thankfully, the dub of DBZ got better with time (unlike the 4Kids "One Piece" dub), people who were looking to change the show (like Barry Watson) lost power and influence, and people who were looking to faithfully adapt the original source material (like Chris Sabat) gained power and influence. That's the main appeal for many people behind the dub of "Kai": the dub scripts, while not free of occasional hiccups, are infinitely more loyal to the original Japanese source material...and ironically, the most faithfully-written area of the "Kai" dub is the same area that corresponds to "Season 3" of the DBZ dub.

Thank you very much for your well thought-out reply. You even gave specific examples. Well done!

[Zenkai]

The music really doesn't fit the show. It makes the show feel like some generic action show (although as I posted above I do like certain themes). I don't really like the electronic music either. Not to mention they use it way too much.

I don't like electronic music much either. I like the original orchestral score much more. Probably because I play classical music in wind ensembles on the saxophone.

[OutlawTorn]

The orange bricks do have bad -- no, atrocious picture quality and it's a fact.

No. It is your opinion.

Yes, when the lines disappear, it looks bad. However, the lines only disappear for several seconds. Around 10 seconds out of approximately 419,040 seconds is not that bad.

And sure, some colors are washed out occasionally in the earlier sets, but the get fixed mostly after season 3.

However, that the footage is cropped is atrocious in itself and, considering the show was produced and meant to be viewed in a 4:3 format, that is an undeniable fact. Native 4:3 footage should never be cropped to 16:9, much like native 16:9 should never be cropped to "pan & scan."

[Zenkai]

However, that the footage is cropped is atrocious in itself and, considering the show was produced and meant to be viewed in a 4:3 format, that is an undeniable fact. Native 4:3 footage should never be cropped to 16:9, much like native 16:9 should never be cropped to "pan & scan."

I ain't a fan of the cropping either....

[dbboxkaifan]

The orange bricks do have bad -- no, atrocious picture quality and it's a fact.

No. It is your opinion.

Yes, when the lines disappear, it looks bad. However, the lines only disappear for several seconds. Around 10 seconds out of approximately 419,040 seconds is not that bad.

And sure, some colors are washed out occasionally in the earlier sets, but the get fixed mostly after season 3.

It simply isn't an opinion at all, the orange bricks have terrible quality and it's easily noticeable sure the ones who are thrown anything regardless of how shitty the PQ is for them it doesn't matter.

The orange bricks do not have even met the standards to have good quality, at best it's mediocre.

[SSJJezter]

The orange bricks do have bad -- no, atrocious picture quality and it's a fact.

No. It is your opinion.

Yes, when the lines disappear, it looks bad. However, the lines only disappear for several seconds. Around 10 seconds out of approximately 419,040 seconds is not that bad.

And sure, some colors are washed out occasionally in the earlier sets, but the get fixed mostly after season 3.

It simply isn't an opinion at all, the orange bricks have terrible quality and it's easily noticeable sure the ones who are thrown anything regardless of how shitty the PQ is for them it doesn't matter.

The orange bricks do not have even met the standards to have good quality, at best it's mediocre.

I understand what you're saying because 98% of people on Kanzenshuu would agree that the picture quality is awful and so do I. Despite this, as many people can think the same thing as possible, but that still doesn't make it a fact. It is an opinion - just one that almost everyone here would agree with.

[ABED]

That's like saying Blu ray isn't objectively superior to VHS. I'm not a videophile but you can easily see that the image loses a lot of detail.

[Gaffer Tape]

Yeah, I agree with ABED. This is one of those points where it's so extreme to the point that it's hard to say it's not a fact. Do you think that the picture of VHS is comparable to that of Blu-ray Discs? I think my mother would say yes, and that's her opinion, and it really depends on what your standards of "comparable" are, but there are plenty of objective facts that could disprove her opinion as incorrect in a sense. In regards to the orange bricks, is it a fact or opinion that 20% of the picture is chopped off? Fact. Is it a fact or opinion that the image is substantially oversaturated compared to any other official source? Fact. Is it a fact or opinion that grain removal has done away with the animation lines? Fact. Is the picture good? Ehrm... Well, the quality of "good" is technically an opinion, but I have a whole bunch of facts right here to back up the idea that its quality is sorely lacking.

[SSJJezter]

I just want to make sure you know I do agree. It's just at least one person on here has the opinion that it is a good picture quality. Now although I disagree with this entirely, it is still their opinion and that should be accepted, even if I and others find it strange that they think this. No matter how obvious it may seem to us that the picture quality is terrible, it is still our opinion that it is terrible.

And that's a fact.