Buu Saga Info

[Kamiccolo9]

Actually, Trunks got yelled at when Goku was a SSJ2, before he showed SSJ3 to Buu.

[Hitiro]

If you close your eyes you can see Badibi's broadcast. Goku knew Trunks was watching because Trunks ki stopped moving. So Goku used this opportunity to yell at Trunks.

Huh, can you find me that in the manga? I can't seem to find the right page :O

Chapter: 474 (DBZ 280), P2

Side-note: Trunks had stopped watching Goku because Goku yelled at him. Goten, however, was still watching Goku when he transformed into a SSJ3.

[Mjb1985]

Ah yes I think you are right. Goku was still debating if he really needed to show Ssj3 right?

[Kamiccolo9]

Yeah, it was right after he asked Buu if he wanted to see something that surpassed a Super Saiyan 2. The same page where he reverts back to base.

[Mjb1985]

Good call.

[BejitaSama]

he direct quote is "I shouldn't even be here! It's not something I should do." He shouldn't be there because he is dead. It's not the place of a dead guy to save the world of the living

And when he precises his thoughts against Kid Buu, he says that he really wanted to the boys to save earth. It's not his battle. I'm sorry, but I don't see any chance that Goku says to himself : "Hey, I sould lie to Piccolo, Kuririn and the others about my true strength because I'm dead, I don't have to take part in this battle ! But hey, if I fuse with a living guy, I wouldn't be dead anymore ! ".
You have to admit here that there is no logic, it's clear that Goku wanted to fuse because he claimed he can't beat Buu because he's equal to Bejita.

that whole seen was of Buu reverting so it showed his South Kaioshin absorbed state before reverting to Kid Buu. Good Buu is an absorption because he is in a pod. Honestly claiming he isn't is really splitting hairs.

If Good Buu lost weakened him, how Buff Buu can be stronger than Super Buu ? Good Buu is a SPECIAL absorption, it's stated by Super Buu. And moreover, as I said, of course the lost of his absorptions made him weaker ! He was Super Buu Gohan, the strongest Buu !

[GTx10]

Addressed to Draken

Continuing from the BoG's thread for me Kid Buu (what this thread calls "Pure Buu") is the strongest Buu.

[Draken]

Addressed to Draken

Continuing from the BoG's thread for me Kid Buu (what this thread calls "Pure Buu") is the strongest Buu.

I suggest *trying* to read through the thread first before jumping in . I'm sure many of your points will have been addressed, and by people far more knowledgeable than me.

[GTx10]

Well I was continuing from where we left off really.

[Draken]

Well I was continuing from where we left off really.

That would be going in circles because I'd be repeating everything I've said in this thread + more.

[Kamiccolo9]

Addressed to Draken

Continuing from the BoG's thread for me Kid Buu (what this thread calls "Pure Buu") is the strongest Buu.

I suggest *trying* to read through the thread first before jumping in . I'm sure many of your points will have been addressed, and by people far more knowledgeable than me.

Admittedly, this is kind of a big, convoluted thread.

Well I was continuing from where we left off really.

Who said SS1 Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan? For me UG is stronger than SS3 Goku by a little but weaker than SS4.

I do think Kid Buu is the strongest Buu. The Manga vaguely hints that KB isn't as strong but Vegeta was mocking his height. To me the final villain is always the strongest. Its easier that way.

In the anime, Goku defeats an illusion of Gohan that appears inside of Buu, while Vegeta does the same to one of Gotenks. One of the official guidebooks (need some clarification on which one) states that these illusions are just as strong as the real thing. So that would imply that SSJ1 Goku is stronger than Ultimate Gohan. Not that it makes much sense, but yeah, it's there.

As for Buu, I personally go with what Goku said to Vegeta. He told Vegeta that if they were to fight Super Buu (without anyone absorbed, mind you) that they would be killed. Yet later, when fighting Pure Buu, Goku is totally confident that he can defeat Buu. Even after Buu reveals that he was stronger than everyone thought, Goku is still sure that he could destroy him if he powered up.
So, Goku says that Super Buu would kill him, so Super Buu>Goku.
Goku says that he could beat Pure Buu, so Goku>Pure Buu.
Goku's power stays the same in between these events, so logically, Super Buu>Goku>Pure Buu.
At least that's how I see it.

[Mjb1985]

Yea I generally think that Super Buu is 10x Kid Buu. That's a decent range to work with imo.

[hleV]

Yea I generally think that Super Buu is 10x Kid Buu. That's a decent range to work with imo.

How do South and Dai Kaioshin make Pure Boo 10x stronger?

[Mjb1985]

I think Buu absorbs Kaioshins based on their traits. If that doesn't satisfy you, magic. Lol.

[Kamiccolo9]

As I see it, SSJ Gotenks is about even with Fat Buu. Since SSJ3 Gotenks is 8x stronger than SSJ1, then Super Buu, who was roughly equal to SSJ3 Gotenks would be about 8x stronger than Fat Buu. Since Pure Buu is stronger than Fat Buu, and roughly even with Goku, who should be on the same level as SSJ Gotenks, I see it this way:
SSJ3 Gotenks-80
Super Buu-80
SSJ Gotenks-10
Fat Buu-9-10
SSJ3 Goku (Full Power)-12-14
Pure Buu-11-13

[Mjb1985]

I disagree strongly here. Goku isn't going to leave the fate of the universe in the hands of Gotenks unless he felt Gotenks was capable of winning. Especially considering he could have finished the job.

Ssj Gotenks Pre Rosat should be able to defeat Fat Buu imo.

[Kamiccolo9]

I disagree strongly here. Goku isn't going to leave the fate of the universe in the hands of Gotenks unless he felt Gotenks was capable of winning. Especially considering he could have finished the job.

Ssj Gotenks Pre Rosat should be able to defeat Fat Buu imo.

I agree that he should have been able to defeat the Fat Buu that Goku fought, but as we've seen, Fat Buu gets much stronger when he's angrier. The level I gave is what I feel he was at right before he split into Mr. Buu and Pure Evil Buu, the time when he was the angriest. Against Goku, I'd put him around 7-8.

[hleV]

Fat Boo doesn't get stronger everytime he's angry. He powers up just like everyone else. There's no reason to believe that Fat Boo against SS3 Goku wasn't at the peak if his power.

[Kamiccolo9]

Fat Boo doesn't get stronger everytime he's angry. He powers up just like everyone else. There's no reason to believe that Fat Boo against SS3 Goku wasn't at the peak if his power.

Chapter: 462 (DBZ 268), P1.2-4, P2.5
Context: after Boo beats Dabra
Gohan: “It-it rose…Majin Boo’s ki rose explosively…He’s str-strong…Too strong…This is unbelievable…”
Trunks: “…What the…!? This time I feel an incredible ki over there too…What’s going on?...”

Chapter: 464 (DBZ 270), P11.6
Context: after Vegeta insults Boo and he lets steam out of his head
Kuririn: “Hey…That monstrous bastard’s ki got even huger.”

Chapter: 485 (DBZ 291), P2.3
Narrator: “Due to his strong anger, the evil portion that Majin Boo had kept inside himself greatly swelled up and became another Majin Boo, who came flying out…In other words, he was divided into a pure evil Majin Boo and an innocent Majin Boo…”

Buu gets stronger when he's angry. He was having fun fighting Goku. Each of these boosts was when he was mad at his opponent, or in the case of the latter, his rage at Mr. Satan being shot.

[Mjb1985]

I think Buu was at his peak against Goku as well.