Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[RandomGuy96]

I know, I just like doing that . Blame Salagir for that one.
And I meant to spell it "cannon".

[Saiga]

The Daizenshuus also state Gohan was a Ssj somewhere so that is a direct contradiction.

No, they don't.

[dbzfan7]

The Daizenshuus also state Gohan was a Ssj somewhere so that is a direct contradiction.

No, they don't.

It was in the Daizenshuu 2 where they state SSJ Gohan fought Dabra.

[Saiga]

It was in the Daizenshuu 2 where they state SSJ Gohan fought Dabra.

No, it wasn't.

Daizenshuu 2 did NOT state that he was a Super Saiyan 1. I am really tired of people constantly saying this when it's not the case. What Daizenshuu 2 did was imply that the form didn't appear after the tournament, which itself could be a mistake due to other errors in that section.

[coola]

Sorry for my poor English!!

I think Dabura was taken by surprise with Gohan's rush!

Even Perfect Cell was taken by surprise a few times by people weaker than him! Like android sixteen!

A16 only grabbed Perfect Cell, not punch him, when he tried to punch Semi-Perfect Cell, he didn`t move even an inch. that`s why i find hard to believe for F.Gohan, to be able to kiai Dabura away, funny, we were warned there is a bullshit coming, yet we still comment on it.

[Godo]

There is a huuuuuge gap between normal SSJ and MSSJ either way, no no matter which level Dabra is at, Gohan should be crushed.

SSJ and MSSJ are the same thing. Only difference is that MSSJ has no strain or need for conserving Ki. Multiplier for both is 50x base.

To be more clear:

What I was implying was that there is a huge difference between Freeza Arc SSJ and Cell Games Arc SSJ.
So is a Freeza arc SSJ (which holds for Future Gohan) is 10, a Cell Games Arc (which would be at the MSSJ level) is 1000.
So it wouldn't matter either way which level Dabra was.

And if MSSJ removes the strain, that would grant more power to its user, therefore making the user stronger. Just compare MSSJ Goku vs. SSJ Vegeta in the Cell Arc. In mere power, Vegeta was in no means weaker. The difference was in the transformation.

SSJ:
- Total ki: 100
- Usable ki: 50
- Ki strain: 50

MSSJ:
- Total ki: 100
- Usable ki: 100
- Ki strain: 0

So no, the multiplier bit doesn't matter, since a MSSJ is waaaay stronger than a SSJ in any way. And that was my point.

[dbzfan7]

There is a huuuuuge gap between normal SSJ and MSSJ either way, no no matter which level Dabra is at, Gohan should be crushed.

SSJ and MSSJ are the same thing. Only difference is that MSSJ has no strain or need for conserving Ki. Multiplier for both is 50x base.

To be more clear:

What I was implying was that there is a huge difference between Freeza Arc SSJ and Cell Games Arc SSJ.
So is a Freeza arc SSJ (which holds for Future Gohan) is 10, a Cell Games Arc (which would be at the MSSJ level) is 1000.
So it wouldn't matter either way which level Dabra was.

And if MSSJ removes the strain, that would grant more power to its user, therefore making the user stronger. Just compare MSSJ Goku vs. SSJ Vegeta in the Cell Arc. In mere power, Vegeta was in no means weaker. The difference was in the transformation.

SSJ:
- Total ki: 100
- Usable ki: 50
- Ki strain: 50

MSSJ:
- Total ki: 100
- Usable ki: 100
- Ki strain: 0

So no, the multiplier bit doesn't matter, since a MSSJ is waaaay stronger than a SSJ in any way. And that was my point.

All MSSJ does is allow ki to be used more efficiently. If SSJ Goku fought MSSJ Goku at equal power levels. They would have the exact same power. The only difference is that MSSJ can afford to use up ki rather then conserve. MSSJ is only more versatile. Its stronger not in the blunt sense, but because its more versatile.

[Godo]

All MSSJ does is allow ki to be used more efficiently. If SSJ Goku fought MSSJ Goku at equal power levels. They would have the exact same power. The only difference is that MSSJ can afford to use up ki rather then conserve. MSSJ is only more versatile. Its stronger not in the blunt sense, but because its more versatile.

What you are implying that if Goku could muster up a max power Kamehameha at 1,000 in ki power, it wouldn't matter if he had 500 extra in ki at all, since he was more...versatile?

Less used up ki = more power to use = more versatility if you keep fighting at a low level, or simply much more power if you fight on a normal level.
So yeah, MSSJ is simply stronger in that you have access to more ki.

It's like saying that Kaio-ken doesn't make you stronger...it just gives you more ki to use that you didn't have access to previously.

[Kaboom]

Full-Power Super Saiyan just eliminates stress and makes the form easier to use. Rather than saying that it grants more power, I'd say it just allows the same power to be stretched a lot further and last a lot longer. It's like a battery that puts out the same voltage but now lasts 5 times as long.

[dbzfan7]

All MSSJ does is allow ki to be used more efficiently. If SSJ Goku fought MSSJ Goku at equal power levels. They would have the exact same power. The only difference is that MSSJ can afford to use up ki rather then conserve. MSSJ is only more versatile. Its stronger not in the blunt sense, but because its more versatile.

What you are implying that if Goku could muster up a max power Kamehameha at 1,000 in ki power, it wouldn't matter if he had 500 extra in ki at all, since he was more...versatile?

Less used up ki = more power to use = more versatility if you keep fighting at a low level, or simply much more power if you fight on a normal level.
So yeah, MSSJ is simply stronger in that you have access to more ki.

It's like saying that Kaio-ken doesn't make you stronger...it just gives you more ki to use that you didn't have access to previously.

See Kaboom's post. He sums it up better than me.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Full-Power Super Saiyan just eliminates stress and makes the form easier to use. Rather than saying that it grants more power, I'd say it just allows the same power to be stretched a lot further and last a lot longer. It's like a battery that puts out the same voltage but now lasts 5 times as long.

That's how I've always looked at it too. It just ends up granting the appearance of someone having more power because of those benefits, rather than it just flat-out granting more power than before.

[Godo]

Yeah, the battery theory is one that partly I believe in too, although I believe that there isn't a fixed voltage in there (sine no character has had much of a fixed voltage; see KKx4 Goku's Kamehameha as an example).
So what I believe is that:

A) You fight at the normal level and make the fight last longer

Or
B) you fight at a higher level but the fight lasts shorter

B would be the Shunkan Idou Kamehameha (of which I don't believe would be possible for Goku without MSSJ if he didn't have less strain and more power to use).

So if we compare SSJ to a 5V battery, MSSJ makes the limit higher at will sine you won't need to conserve more power.

[coola]

That`s little more belivable, i predict that next page Pui Pui will get stoned

[Marco Polo]

Why is Dabra fighting Bart Simpson??

[dbzfan7]

That`s little more belivable, i predict that next page Pui Pui will get stoned

This seems about right. Dabra toying with Gohan and shaking off his attacks.

[TonyTheTiger]

Yeah, I'm not seeing the bullshit yet. Gohan surprises a much stronger opponent (a Gohan tradition, after all) and after that initial burst the stronger opponent gains control of the fight.

[Gohaz]

Me likey the way his hair is drawn, they screwed the pooch with the original future Gohan, that hair was just sad

[Gyt Kaliba]

Yeah, I can buy this a little more now too. I only have a problem if Gohan's winning is somehow unbelievable...which...is going to be a hard thing to manage making it believable no matter what, but I have some small hope.

[RandomGuy96]

Either way, it's going to look really silly if Gohan somehow manages to defeat the devil of DBZ and then gets killed by nobody cyborgs that are dozens of times weaker than said devil.

[Insertclevername]

Why is Dabra fighting Bart Simpson??

Great, now I'm reading all his likes in Bart's voice.